The Ottomans

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Are they also active in the Turks and Caicos Islands?!?!

you may laugh, but Armenian millionaires (of whom there are thousands) have been very timid in investing in Armenia

By contrast Turkish businessmen ventured in large numbers into Russia, Ukraine and other ex-Soviet republics and today are reaping the benefits.

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

Also, as a Turk, you should know many of the words in your vocabulary are Iranian in origin.

yes I agree with you at this point. In addition we have a lot of words- originally Armenian language....

But I didn't mentioned human rights by saying they are weak.... I mentioned " In Ottoman and Seljuk age, they were weak-military,economy etc"

[Hellektor]

Fukc The Ottomans

Of all of Armenia's neighbors and occupying powers, the Ottomans have probably had the greatest effect on Armenian mentality, psychology, way of life etc. Even now, on a given day, thousands of Armenians all over the world will tell each other 14th century Turkish folk philospher/homorist Nasreddin Hodja's wisecrack stories

I have never understood how on Earth such a worthless species of genocidal vermin, most vicious, atrocious, ferocious, seditious, pernicious, merciless, ruthless, useless, reeking, decomposing monstrosity ever to have leaked the trashcan of the universe, the two-legged Inhuman Civilization-deficiency Virus, the savage, nomadic, barbaric, bloodthirsty, primitive, tent-dwelling, cattle-herder, Ural-Altaic, Mongolo-Tatar, Oghuz-Turkmen abomination, the cancerous atrocity going by the four-letter vomit-inducing insult to humanity Turk that has invaded our home, stopped the natural course of our progress, destroyed our towns and cities, farmland, churches, monasteries and even our cemeteries; while infinitely inferior culturally and in the lowest stages of evolution has treated us, a cultured nation with millennia of civilization, as their reaya, used us to build their fucking “empire”, run their economy, feed their lazy hairless Tatar asses, stolen our children for 500 years for janissary and our women to lose their Mongoloid features, settled the Kurds in Armenia to harass us for 500 years, changed the name of our country, provinces, cities, towns and even flora and fauna, sucked our blood for the last thousand years and is still squatting in our home after they exterminated the landlord, can be so self-righteous. It has never failed to stupefy me and I am baffled every single time of this shameless brazenness of this miscreation from hell.

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

both armenians and turks raised a common culture for several hundreds of years. notice the similarities between our music, cuisine etc. this doesn't mean that armenians were affected by turks or vice versa. it is a common culture to which both nations contributed.

Turks do not have a culture. Turks are not a nation. Get a life or get the fuck out.

[robertik1]

Re: The Ottomans

I concur Hellektor.

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

The Ottomans called the Armenians the "loyal" millet or community.

The Armenians did not ask for it but I doubt that it has ever occurred to any specimen of the Turkic parasite that:

“Did the Armenians ask the Turks to invade their home?
Did the Armenians ask, after 4000 years of civilization, the Turks who were in the lowest stages of evolution, to come and rule over them?
Did the Armenians ask the Turks to subjugate this highly civilized ancient nation and become their masters?
Did the Armenians ask the Turks to come and stop their progress?
Did the Armenians ask the Turks to come and destroy their farmland, churches, monasteries, cemeteries, towns and cities?
Did the Armenians ask the Turks to treat them like their reaya?
Did the Armenians ask the Turks to settle the Kurds in Armenia to harass them for 500 years to make sure the Armenians would never summon up enough force to raise their heads and liberate their homeland from their barbaric yoke?
Did the Armenians ask the Turks to steal their children for 500 years for janissary?
Did the Armenians ask the Turks to change the name of their country, provinces, cities, towns, mountains, lakes and even flora and fauna?
Did the Armenians ask the Turks to still squat in their home after they exterminated the landlord?”

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

“Did the Armenians ask the Turks to invade their home?

I am laughing first question.

I want to reply this question as a Turk.

In history, many nations moved different areas. Huns invaded Europe, and many germanic groups started to invade Southern and Western Europe, For example, ANG-LAND - ENGLAND (there were Celts before) and European set up Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Canada, United States etc Turks came from Central Asia about 1000 years ago and set up Seljuks,Ottomans and last Turkey. It is something like that. In America, indians, and Amerindians had been living when Europeans captured, In Anatolia Armenians had been living when Turks captured. Similarity between Amerindians/Indians or Celts and Armenians....You can not change all of the World.

My personel wish is living in Native Turkish Land (Central Asia AND western Sibiria). But is impossible because Russia is there. We could be rich by Petrol and Gas....

Also your churches still stand. Look here

http://images.google.com.tr/images?q=Akdamar+kilisesi&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:tr:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

There is no evolution for Mankind! You can accept that you came from monkey, but I don't belive. All humankind came from Nouh.

[Hellektor]

What relationship? (part I)

...As a purely contextual matter, relative only to that time frame, it's worth noting that Armenians had good relations with Turks.

...If we further delve into historical inquiries, one cannot help but ask, "What happened to this relationship?"

To the extent that this relationship went down hill when Turks started to badger the Armenian population, it is irrelevant. In the context of things, the good relations of ages past pale in comparison to the treatment Armenians received in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Oh dear!

I used to copy/paste these excerpts from Aristakes Lastivertsi's history quite frequently on other boards whenever the bullshit about “Turks and Armenians lived together like brothers for centuries” came up.

What relationship? Turks are savage, genocidal invaders and they did not bring any positive thing to the civilized world this side of the Caspian in thousand years. All they gave us has been nothing but death, destruction, subjugation, terror, rape, slavery, stealing of women and children, pillage, plunder and genocide.

There was no relationship. Armenians were the cattle (reaya) of the Turks and they did to us whatever they pleased. There was absolutely no justice whatsoever for the indigenous Christians and if they dared bring a case against a Muslim to a “judge”, they would be molested even more violently. The Turk parasites cut the tongues of Armenians who spoke in their mother tongue. They would demolish newly built churches always bringing the pretext that it was a centimeter higher than then goddamn mosque (most probably built by Armenians) nearby. For five hundred years they stole our children for Janissary, and they would always take the healthy, smart and good looking ones, what weakened the Armenians while at the same time improved the genes of the Mongol barbarians.

Aristakes Lastivertsi History

Reading these passages sends shivers down the spines of a normal human being. The thing is, you can change the name Seljuk with Mongol, Tatar, Ottoman, Turk and “Azeri” and update the dates, the following will still apply.

Since he is religious and is not able to find the logic behind the Seljuk bestiality, Lastivertsi blames the people for having been sinful and considers the calamity as a punishment from god. Of course, I have only quoted the historic facts he witnessed and recorded a thousand years ago, I leave his religious opinion to himself. The whole book can be viewed on the Robert Bedrosian (the translator’s) website. All emphasis is mine. (Hellektor)

Regarding the Destruction which Took Place in the Basen District and on the Mountain called Smbat's Mountain

In the same year, the gate of Heaven's wrath opened upon our land. Numerous troops moved forth from T'urk'astan, Their horses were as fleet as eagles [g64], with hooves as solid as rock. Well girded, their bows were taut, their arrows sharp, and the laces of their shoes were never untied [i.e., they were always on the move]. Having arrived in the district of Vaspurakan, they pounced upon the Christians as insatiably hungry wolves devour their food. Coming as far as the Basen district and as far as the great estate called Vagharshawan they demolished and polluted twenty-four districts with sword, fire, and captive-taking. This narration deserves many piteous laments and tears. They sped like lions, and like lion cubs, they mercilessly threw the corpses of many people to the carnivorous beasts [65] and birds.

One [body, the sun], awakens men to work, while the other [luminary, the moon], gives boldness to the wild beasts. But now our noontime became eclipsed and was transformed into night. That bestial pagan people which had long since been growling in its lairs, as the prophet says, sought [73] their food from the flock of God. When our day [g70] turned into night, they came forth and spread over the face of the earth. They found much prey and were satiated with food, and saved the left-overs for their children, [enough] for many years. Now although there was plenty of prey for them everywhere, for the country before them was like a lush garden full of fruit, nonetheless this was more so in the Mananaghi district, on the mountain named Smbatay Berd (Smbat's Fortress), for it was there that a countless multitude of fugitives had assembled [with] an inestimable number of animals. The infidels attacked, broke into the stronhold, and put everyone to the sword.

One could observe there a pitiful spectacle, and one worthy of much lamentation. For some whom they grabbed hold of were dispatched with the sword; some who had secured themselves into craggy places [the Saljuqs] killed with arrows; many who had gone up to a cave were crushed to death by huge rocks [rolled on them], and their corpses tumbled down upon each other resembling heaps of wood-shavings [left] by a wood-cutter, filling the valley in front [of the mountain]. Alas and alack [74] the very bitter light of that day! Brave men armed, and glowering with rage, assembled, while the cowards swooned, women took leave of their senses, and youths scoffed [at the danger]. Yet they could find no way out, for the enemy had blockaded them on all sides. No love for dear ones there, no lament for friends. Father forgot tenderness for his children, mother [forgot] love for her newborn infants. The newly-wed woman could not recall her love for her bridegroom, nor did the man think to caress the wife he longed for. Hymns of the mass ceased [g71] in the mouths of the priests, and the recital of psalms stopped on the lips of the psalmists. Everyone without exception was seized with trembling and dread. Because of the severe crisis, many pregnant women aborted their babies. [The Saljuqs] surrounded that mountain for the entire day, like hunters with nets, until they weakened and were exhausted.

Now when evening fell, they took their loot, captives, and the booty from the slain, and departed. But they left behind them a scene more pitiful and lamentable than it had been before. The death-agonies were of many types: for some who had fallen [75] [fatally wounded] were still alive. From thirst their tongues had dried up, and with weak and soft voices they sought to quench their thirst, but there was no one to give them drink. Others who were terribly wounded, and could not make sounds, were breathing violently. Others whose throats had been slit but were still alive were emitting gurgling sounds in pain. Yet others, who had been badly wounded, were scraping the ground with their feet and clawing at it with their fingernails. There were others whose appearance was so frightful that the very rocks and other inanimate objects were moved to lamentation and sighing. For when the infidels were removing captives from the mountain, they took the children from their parents' embrace, and threw them to the ground, and [the Saljuqs'] place of encampment was swarming with them. Some [of the children] had died when they fell against rocks. The sides of some of them had torn open and their intestines poured out onto the ground. As for those remaining alive, what ear could bear their crying? Those [children] capable of walking were moving about here and there looking for their mothers, and the mountains reverberated with the loudness of their crying. Those who [76] were [too young to be] steady on their feet, were crying as they crawled along on their knees. Those who were even younger than they, thumped the ground with their feet, and, weakened through crawling they could scarcely breath. With their piteous sounds and unceasing cries they resembled lambs newly separated from their mothers, who, being impatient by nature, angrily struck out this way and that, offending the very air with their bleating and weighing heavily upon the listeners' ears.

Regarding the Merciless Destruction of Arcn

Who can put into writing the diverse and unbelievable disasters that were visited upon our city? It was [here] as was written about the Sodomites: "The sun had risen on the earth, and the Lord rained on Sodom brimstrone and fire, and burned it [Genesis 19.23-24]." So it happened here that when the sun rose on the earth, an impious people, like famished dogs, arrived, surrounded the city, entered, and like reapers [working] in a field, they reaped with their swords until they had snuffed out the city's life. Mercilessly setting fire to the homes and churches wherein refugees [84] had fled, [the Saljuqs] burned them down, considering this a benevolent act...

The weather also was an aid on this destructive day. An extremely severe wind howled, stirring up the fire so much that smoke rose to the sky in thick billows. The flaming columns of fire vanquished the rays of the sun. One could see there a pitiful and terrifying spectacle in the extreme, for the entire city--the bazars, the lanes, and the great chambers--was full of the corpses of the slain. Who can count those burned to death? Those who had escaped from the glittering sword, and taken refuge in houses, were immolated, one and all. As regards the priests, those whom they caught in the churches, they burned to death; those they found outside, they killed and, to insult and disgrace us, put huge hogs [g78] in their arms. The number of priests who died by fire and sword, lords of diocese and church, we found to be more than 150. But as for those who had come from all other lands, and happened to be there, who can count them?
85] Such is your wicked history, oh city, blessed and venerable, full [of good things], renowned among the lands. Raise now your eyes and observe your children led into slavery, your babies hurled mercilessly against rocks, your young people burned by fire, the respect-worthy and glorious elderly folk fallen in the squares, your fresh and prosperous virgins and women fallen in disgrace, led away into slavery on foot...

Let the narration of Arcn's sad history end at this point, for we were unable to record every evil event. Let whoever wants to learn of our omission look in the ruins. We have written the pitiful account of two places, of the mountain and of the city. We have written only about what we saw with our own eyes, and about the wicked things we ourselves experienced. As for the disasters which befell the other districts and cities, who is strong enough [to record them]? Much time and many words would be [86] needed for that. We abbreviated our [account] as much as possible. [g79]

[Hellektor]

What relationship? (part II)

Regarding How Terribly the City Called Kars Was Struck

For a long time this city [Kars] had had no experience with evils [warfare] and so [the people] dwelled unconcernedly and without suspicions therein, grown rich with much merchandise acquired by sea and by land. Now during [the festival] of the Revelation of Our Lord, in the evening, when the ranks of the priesthood together with great crowds of the people were celebrating the mass of the day, [singing] with joyous voices, the troops of the infidels unexpectedly attacked. Because the city was without a night-watch, they entered. Putting swords to work, they mercilessly killed everybody, a history meriting much lamentation. It was the custom of the city's men, women, elderly, and youths [each] according [92] to strength and ability, on the Lord's feastdays, to ornament himself or herself with many adornments, such that they resembled spring gardens. When these [people] were thus chanced upon, suddenly the city became filled with sighs and lamentations. Priests were silenced at mass, as were the psalmists [silenced] from singing psalms. The song of blessing stopped on the lips of scribes and boys. There one could have seen a spectacle most pitiable, capable of moving even the stones and inanimate objects to sighs of lament, let alone the rational and living. Well-respected and honorable merchants were wickedly slain, youths and athletes/wrestlers lay stabbed to death in the streets, and the blood-spattered heads of the elderly lay fallen near them. By such deeds was the city stripped of its population. Only the one who managed to enter the stronghold located above the city saved his life. The entire remainder of the day, [the Saljuqs] rummaged through the houses, then set the city on fire. Taking their captives and the city's plunder, they went to their own land.

Regarding the Sultan's Arrival

The year after this [devastation] occurred was [the year] 503 of our [Armenian] era [1054]. Now the [93] same month, and the same date of the month as [the previous year] when [the Saljuqs] took the land captive, and burned Arcn and other cities and awans, that death-breathing, bloodthirsty and murderous beast, the Sultan, advanced [toward us] with countless troops, elephants, carts, horses, women, children, and much preparation. Skipping over Archesh and Berkri, they came and camped near the city called Manazkert in the Apahunik' district, seizing all the extensive places in the fields [i.e., the pasturelands]. [The Sultan] dispatched marauding parties across the face of the land: north as far as the stronghold of the Abkhaz and to the [g84] mountain called Parxar to the base of the Caucasus; west as far as the forests of Chanet'ia; and south as far as the place called Sim mountain. And they seized the entire land as [easily as] reapers working a field.

Who can record the evils which [the Saljuqs] then visited upon the land? Whose mind is able to enumerate them? The entire land was full of corpses--cultivated and uncultivated places, roads and desolate places, caves, craggy spots, pine groves and steep places--and [the Saljuqs] set on fire and polluted all the cultivated places, homes and churches. And the flame of that fire rose higher than [the flame of] the furnace of Babylon. In this way [94] they ruined the entire land, not once but three times, one after the other, until the country was totally devoid of inhabitants and the bellowing of animals ceased.

....

When the enemy attacked, they cut [the citizens] down, not after the fashion of a war, but as though they were slaughtering sheep penned up in a yard. Some [the Saljuqs] seized, brought forward and beheaded with the sword. They died a double death. More bitter than death was the scintillating of swords above them, then the death verdict. Swords in hand they came upon some, fell upon them like beasts, pierced their hearts and killed them instantly. As for the stout and corpulent, they were made to go down on their knees, and their hands were secured down by stakes. Then the skin together with the nails was pulled up on both sides over the forearm and shoulder as far as the tips of the second hand, forcibly removed, and [the Saljuqs] fashioned bowstrings out of them. Oh how bitter this narration is!

The Destruction and Inestimable Ruin of Mesopotamia and Its Cities

Each person thought of some way of escape, to perhaps save himself from the burning Gehenna of rage. Consequently, they fled to the vineyards which surrounded the city, and they concealed themselves under the thick leaves [130] of the vines. The infidels learned about this, searched [the vineyards], and stabbed and killed with lances all [those concealed]. The clusters of grapes were stained with their blood. Later on the surviving dregs [of the city] came forth, located their dead among the vines, and buried them under the earth. Yet their consciences would not allow them to gather or eat those grapes. For they said that those grapes [were filled with] human blood. Now when the infidels were finished killing, they returned to the city and started searching through the houses. If anyone anywhere or in a secret hiding place had concealed his belongings, [the Saljuqs] dug them out with great skill. Then they set the city on fire and burned it down, and then, taking booty and captives, they departed. They dealt [g111] similarly with the surrounding villages and awans, destroying all of them with fire, sword, and slavery until nowhere was anyone left alive to emit even a feeble cry.

The Destruction of the Shahastan City, Melitene

The [Egyptians] demanded as payment from the Israelites golden ornaments and clothing in place of serving them. Yet [the Saljuqs] totally stripped and pillaged whatever we had, even though we had done nothing to them. Alas and alack that inconsolable destruction! There was a double justice in chastising the Egyptians: first, God tried them for the bitter servitude by which they had straitened the Israelites; second, because they worshipped created beings and not the Creator Who is blessed for eternity. Although we are devoid of good deeds, nonetheless we have the right belief and the tongue of confession. Why should we be punished the way they were? How much more pitiful are we, and [how much more] deserving of lamentation. Oh Lord, Creator, and God, why did You completely reject us, and cause us to be xxxxxled under foot by pagans and make us the object of ridicule and derision by our enemies? Arise and awaken Your might, come and save us, [g114] and requite our neighbors sevenfold!

[The Saljuqs] left a remembrance forever of the unbelievable inequities they occasioned there. They took the young boys and other little children and used them as targets, wickedly piercing and killing them with lances and arrows. Nor did any feelings of pity find their way into their natures. I need not mention the children who were torn from their parents' embrace: the boys were hurled against rocks, while the attractive women and girls who had been reared in comfort were disgraced. Why should I record it? Do you see how unbearable the measure of tribulations are when God withdraws His hand from us?

During the same year, [the Saljuqs] burned down the beautiful residence of the blessed [monastery of] Karapet [the Precursor, John the Baptist] which had been built with great labor by a certain Hrahat, one of the colleagues of Vasak's son, the great Gregory, when he was lord of the country. They also burned the belfry located in front of St. Karapet (which had been built in a gorgeous style to the glory and honor of the great martyr and precursor of Christ), as well as other structures, and the wooden church called St. Gregory. This occurred in the year 507 of our [Armenian] era [1058]. [g118]

How the World Renowned City of Ani was Massacred by the Sword

One could see there the grief and calamity of every age of humankind. For children were ravished from the embraces of their mothers and mercilessly hurled against rocks, while the mothers drenched them with tears and blood. Father and son were slain by the same sword. The elderly, the young, priests and deacons also died by the same sword. The city became filled from one end to the other with bodies of the slain, and [the bodies of the slain] became a road. From the countless multitude of the slain, and from the corpses, that great stream which passed by the city became dyed with blood. Wild and domesticated beasts became the cemeteries [165] of those corpses, for there was no one to cover over the bodies of the slain with the needed earth, no one to bury them...

Resembling the viper, their rage did not let up; resembling the fire, their greed had no bounds. For whatever they proposed regarding us was evil, Their words were full of treachery, Therefore [179] each morning dawned with them effecting yet another evil. Such were all of their plans: to wear out and exhaust us as an old coat, and to efface any memory of us in their minds, so that they would not look and find us alive. No, our cemeteries were to vanish under their feet.

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

I am laughing first question.

That simply confirms my theory about Turks not being human beings as a result of their not having acquired the properties that separates humans from monsters. I copy/paste from my mega text file:

The total insensitivity to their bloody past is what gives us the assurance that the Turk has not yet acquired a range of human traits civilized nations have come to absorb perhaps since ten thousand years or so: remorse, guilt, shame, compassion, honesty, modesty, sincerity, truthfulness, conscience, objectivity, self-criticism, sympathy and understanding for the suffering of others, the ability to share others' pain, the ability to value achievements of civilization such as works of art, places of worship, manuscripts, cities, etc., all characteristics that have separated the humans from beasts.

In history, many nations moved different areas. Huns invaded Europe, and many germanic groups started to invade Southern and Western Europe, For example, ANG-LAND - ENGLAND (there were Celts before) and European set up Brazil, Argentina, Peru, Canada, United States etc Turks came from Central Asia about 1000 years ago and set up Seljuks,Ottomans and last Turkey. It is something like that. In America, indians, and Amerindians had been living when Europeans captured, In Anatolia Armenians had been living when Turks captured. Similarity between Amerindians/Indians or Celts and Armenians....You can not change all of the World.

This is a typical Turkish answer as well. Imagine they come to arrest a serial killer and he complains, “What do you want from me? There's also another killer in the other street.”

This does not put you off the hook. The utmost savagery your species has done to us, the denial of that and the projection of Turkish monstrosities on Armenians puts you on a unique level of inhumanity that does not have its like in history.

In America, indians, and Amerindians had been living when Europeans captured...

The comparison is fallacious because:

I. The Europeans who conquered the continent they call America have given us the electric bulb, the automobile, the airplane, the PC, the internet, the electric guitar, the bass guitar, jazz, rock, blues and countless other useful things we couldn't do without in our days. Whether you like those things or think they harm the environment is another thing.

II. The natives of America had mostly a tribal system (which is their right) and there were not that many borders and states as such.

III. The Europeans, however violent, did not devise a meticulous plan of extermination of the natives, unlike the genocidal Turks, and that after they used and abused us anyway they pleased for nine long centuries.

My personel wish is living in Native Turkish Land (Central Asia AND western Sibiria). But is impossible because Russia is there. We could be rich by Petrol and Gas....

That would be my dream. Still, Turks originated in Mongolia. They spread like cancer in Central Asia in the sixth century AD and subjugated and destroyed the Iranian nomadic peoples of Central Asia (known as the Turanians) and still hold those lands that amount to over four million square kilometers, i.e. about five times larger than Turkey. Enough to hold all of you plus the “Azeri” subspecies.

Also your churches still stand. Look here

http://images.google.com.tr/images?q=Akdamar+kilisesi&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:tr:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

You don't know a thing! Of 2200 working churches accounted for by Patriarch Ormanian in 1912, with location and priest names, hardly 200 survive today and they are mostly in a dilapidated state.

There is no evolution for Mankind! You can accept that you came from monkey, but I don't belive. All humankind came from Nouh.

Noah is just another plagiarized character in Jew mythology, besides, only human beings are supposed to have descended from Noah, Turks are the whelps of the Gray Wolf and they say it themselves.