The Ottomans

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

Why did the Ottomans rise? To fill the vacuum left by the defeated Franks (Crusaders), the devastated Arabs (at the hands of the Franks), the militarily non-existent Persians, and the severely weakened Seljuks, Byzantines and Armenians (as a result of regional turmoil).... By the late middle ages, there was a severe geopolitical vacuum in the Near East and Asia Minor as a result of hundreds of years of constant battles between Europeans, Byzantines, Persians, Arabs and Armenians. This lead to the Ottoman rise. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. Historically, the sun has shined out your assess.

You had forgotten something. Europeans sent many crusades, also no different between Seljuks or Ottomans both's nations are Turks. Mongols defeated Seljuks in Kosedag war so they disappear, and divided 12 parts and one of them is Ottomans.Araps had chosen Turks as a keeper Islam especially in Seljuks age, Ottomans continued it after 1517. Sultans could be sunni's caliph.
By the way, according to sunni Islam religion, all muslims are siblings and killing a muslim is "haram" which is not true. So sunni Araps supported Turks until first world war. You said also persians didn't have army ! It is only begining of the Ottomans age not all time . . .Why ? Because Seljuk Turks had already beat them it was its result.

Around the 1500s, persians became stronger, we had many war especially they were shiii we were sunniii, this was basic reason of the wars. Iranians occupied Baghdat, we got back, they occupied we got back... Today Iraq have both Sunniis both Shiis this a result.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Around the 1500s, persians became stronger, we had many war especially they were shiii we were sunniii, this was basic reason of the wars. Iranians occupied Baghdat, we got back, they occupied we got back... Today Iraq have both Sunniis both Shiis this a result.

The ottomans had the advantage over persia because they controlled istanbul and the balkans.

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

Persia was always undeveloped and weak. . .

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

Ever heard the phrase "the sick man of Europe"? One of my favourites. Here is some historical background to it:

"The phrase "sick man of Europe" is commonly attributed to Tsar Nicholas I of Russia, referring to the Ottoman Empire, because it was increasingly falling under the financial control of the European powers and had lost territory in a series of disastrous wars. Letters from Sir G.H. Seymour, the British ambassador to St. Petersburg, to Lord John Russell, in 1853, in the run up to the Crimean War, quote Nicholas I of Russia as saying that the Ottoman Empire was a sick man—a very sick man", a "man" who "has fallen into a state of decrepitude", or a "sick man ... gravely ill".[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_man_of_Europe

I guess it's the same thing now...you are still a sick man, taken hostage to your EU aspirations. The phrase "sick man" depicts you very well.

Yes these are true information, it is about 19. century-end of the Ottomans age!

Sultans married foreign women, and veziers were not Turk. So Empire's ordinance broke down...

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Ever heard the phrase "the sick man of Europe"? One of my favourites. Here is some historical background to it:

"
I guess it's the same thing now...you are still a sick man, taken hostage to your EU aspirations. The phrase "sick man" depicts you very well.

Meline you are mistaken. Yes, the ottoman state went into sharp decline in the 19th century. In 1923, after many years of war and genocide the Turkish republic was created. The Turkish economy was doing badly until the early 1980s. Today Turkey is far from being the sick man of Europe. It has its problems but millions of tourists are flocking to Turkey's beaches including thousands of armenians. Turkey's apricots, figs and hazelnuts are exported everywhere even to places like Argentina (the giant Ataturk dam , opposed by Syria and Iraq, made this possible). Bursa a textile town in the 19th century factories run by Armenians and Greeks, now exports designer clothes all over the world...and so on. Your image of Turkey is outdated

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

Meline you are mistaken. Yes, the ottoman state went into sharp decline in the 19th century. In 1923, after many years of war and genocide the Turkish republic was created. The Turkish economy was doing badly until the early 1980s. Today Turkey is far from being the sick man of Europe. It has its problems but millions of tourists are flocking to Turkey's beaches including thousands of armenians. Turkey's apricots, figs and hazelnuts are exported everywhere even to places like Argentina (the giant Ataturk dam , opposed by Syria and Iraq, made this possible). Bursa a textile town in the 19th century factories run by Armenians and Greeks, now exports designer clothes all over the world...and so on. Your image of Turkey is outdated

Perfect comment!

Are you Turkish citizen?

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Are you Turkish citizen?

No, I'm Armenian (born outside Turkey). But trying to look at the Ottoman empire and Turkey from a neutral perspective

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

...if I remember correctly, Turkey appled for membership as far back as 1963. Not there yet? Must be something sick about them......

.

applying for membership means nothing. Almost anyone can apply. Morocco applied many years ago.Many in the EU today who are opposed because they say only a small part of Turkey is in Europe, imagine how many thought membership was a realistic prospect in 1963?

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

Obviously, you didn't read my entire post and you didn't grasp the meaning. It's not so much the EU membership, as the inability to build both a functioning economy and a stable state. And that's what makes them "a sick man". The attempt at EU membership is only one of the symptoms of this sickness.

Turkey is not sick man, too much water followed under the bridge. And Turkey not similar with stupid Ottomans...

EU never accepts Turkey, never... In the other hand, Turks 57% don't want to EU. only 35% people want to join EU, they are like monkey, act their culture.

Turkey's adulator presedent want to join EU, But he is not presenting 57%

[ArmSurvival]

Re: The Ottomans

Persia was always undeveloped and weak. . .

You can't be serious... Persians not only had the first human rights declaration in history (Cyrus the Great), they developed canal and irrigation systems that were centuries ahead of their time and are still used today. The idea of the park came from the Persian gardens. They developed the satrapy system of governing, which was used for hundreds of years not just by the Persian empire, but by Alexander the Great and the Greek Diadochi (successor) states. And Persians influenced Islam so much that I don't even know where to begin-- virtually the entire administration of the early Islamic empires was handled by Persian aristocrats and they greatly influenced many aspects of the Islamic faith and culture, including the architecture.

Also, as a Turk, you should know many of the words in your vocabulary are Iranian in origin.