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    Thread: Politics in Hayastan

    1. #706
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Also Haykakan Jan, when you say revolutions are one way negative only, how about revolutions in Armenia (overal SSSR)?
      What started in 1988 and ended in first phase in 1991 and second in 1994 I can only call revolution. There is no other definition.
      It succeeded in giving Armenia an independence didn't it?
      It succeeded in obtaining Artsakh independence didn't it?
      It failed in establishing a free and democratic society I agree. But it achieved all that our public was aiming for. The democracy and society is in big part because public had no idea what it was and how to achieve it.
      Now we need to eatsblish a free and fair society. Progressive and prosperous for everybody.
      Public is slowly coming to understand what it is and how it works.
      If people will stand up to change things, they will do it. Call it whatever anybody wants.
      Books will describe it as revolution.
      Whenever it happens, I'd rather see it soon
      Otherwise if anybody thinks that things may change themselfs or HHK will somehow reform things is gravely mistaken.
      If nothing done, HHK can survive long time like communists, in a very absurd society it creates.
      Last edited by Hakob; 05-14-2017 at 07:38 PM.

    2. #707
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      We may think that Kiev maidan was a mistake for Ukrainian people.
      But which Ukrainian people?
      For the western Ukrainians, so-called Galitsians , it was not a mistake. It was something they were trying to do for past 100 years. To dominate Ukraine, change pro Russian identity and history and create a nationalist state. They succeeded because of western support.
      The eastern Ukraine was not going to go along and was going to resist. Everybody knew it.
      Ukraine may be in economic ruins, but revolutioneers achieved their goals. It would not be easy to tear off an economy so fully integrated with Russia and keep it going strong. It would take many years or decades for Ukraine to rebuild their economy, if at all. You see western Ukrainians are more of an agricultural society, unlike industrialized east.
      Plus, Ukrainians are facing similar problems like us with oligarkhs and corruption.
      I allways said that the maidan was a trap by west for Ukraine. I have been thinking about greater Ukraine.
      But that trap was what exactly western Ukrainian revolutionaries and nationalists needed.

    3. #708
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Zeytun View Post
      The nation is on course for mass suicide.


      Irreparable situation considering the extent of the participants.


      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    4. #709
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by DieHard69 View Post
      So what are you tryin to say, get Assassins and eliminate the most corrupt oligarchs, then what? Get the country to go under martial law?
      No Diehard, no need for martial law but that could be a result if the authorities choose to implement that in response. The point is to strike fear into those who are obscenely corrupt. This can substantially reduce the worst kinds of corruption. Martial law will not last too long if implemented by the authorities.

      Hakob you need to see the world beyond communism. The monopoly on power is nothing new and most of the beloved western democracies are also monopolies. In USA it is a two party system in name only. In reality both parties serve the same interests. What we need in Armenia is accountability. Instill accountability into any system and it becomes a far better system. A system of accountability is needed so that the governors do their job and govern instead of robbing the country. Your argument for revolution are far below the level and quality of arguments I am used to seeing from you. Were not the Dark Years the result of this revolution? How about the exodus of over half the population? How about the brain drain? I suppose being forced to join the EEU was a shinning example of the independence you speak of? The things that most people are concerned with here are not important at all. Democracy, communism, monarchy, dictatorship, theocracy,...non of these things mean anything real, what matters is the living conditions of the people. What good is independence if everyone leaves as a result? What good is democracy when it serves only 1% of the people at expense of the 99%? We do not need a revolution, we do not even need most of the people in government to go away, we simply need them to be motivated to govern instead of steal. We need a national institution that ensures government runs like it should. We do not have such a institution thus we must improvise and make what we can. Taking out corruption by literally taking out the most corrupt will bring the desired results. Initially they may implement martial law of some other harsh measures but they will quickly learn that non of this will stop a assassin. In some cases the leadership is actually looking to get rid of some of the worst offenders anyways as they are endangering all of them.
      Last edited by Haykakan; 05-15-2017 at 05:44 PM.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    5. #710
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      And it doesn't just effect Armenia but also the inaction in Artsakh.....a show of weakness to Turks to the East and West. An open invitation to open fire.
      B0zkurt Hunter

    6. #711
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Eddo211 View Post
      And it doesn't just effect Armenia but also the inaction in Artsakh.....a show of weakness to Turks to the East and West. An open invitation to open fire.
      That is my greatest worry Eddo, if a revolution happens or civil war, over 150,000 people will be in danger of Azerbaijan.

    7. #712
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan



      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    8. #713
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by londontsi View Post


      .
      Uzumem, uzumem, uzumem.. Aghchik jan yeselem shat baner uzum. The pretty girl said something worth noting. She said we will continue to have great and wonderful speeches in the legislature but they will amount to nothing just like before. I want to make a note here for comparisons sake. Here in USA no one even bothers to make great and wonderful speeches anymore in the legislature houses. Everyday Armenia is slowly becoming more like USA. It is only a matter of time before those wonderful speeches are heard no more.
      Hayastan or Bust.

    9. #714
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      .

      I think she was critically assessing the structure of the new parliament.

      Among her comments was the return of a large number of non-participating ( in the last parliament ) members.

      If you understand how these individuals are appointed ( not elected ) by their party her comments become more relevant.

      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    10. #715
      Registered User Haykakan's Avatar
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by londontsi View Post
      .

      I think she was critically assessing the structure of the new parliament.

      Among her comments was the return of a large number of non-participating ( in the last parliament ) members.

      If you understand how these individuals are appointed ( not elected ) by their party her comments become more relevant.

      .
      It is corruption as usual. You can turn and twist it many ways but corruption is basically the same everywhere. Some forms are more refined than others but fundamentally they are all the same. Those patgamavors are not there to govern, they are there to protect their own interests. Once that task is accomplished they see no need to actually do the governing. Here in USA the patgamavors are actually hired help of those who own the country where as in Armenia the owners are still the patgamavors. American owners have others do their dirty work for them and this is the main difference between the owners of USA and the owners of Armenia. Changing the structure of parliament, going with a prime minister vs a president, democracy vs monarchy vs whatever..makes no difference at all. That is what I have been saying for a long time and that is exactly what she is also saying here. The sad part is that she thinks she knows how things should be but has no clue how to get there or what a good government could be like. Someone mentioned lack of creativity in this forum earlier and that is what we are seeing here. Just complain without any hope or mention or even a thought of a solution...reminds you of anyone else on this forum? This lack of creativity to actually find a solution to anything is a result of the dumbing down effect. This effect is very evident in corrupt societies like USA and Armenia is starting to be similar. I doubt anyone wants change more then I do (not just in Armenia either), but I am so sick of idiots trumpeting revolution without a freakin clue in the world about a solution or consequences. Just listen to her at the end there, she literally sounds like a child...I want, I want, I want......
      Hayastan or Bust.

    11. #716
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Since the decisions are made by one man, talking about solutions would be too academic.

      I agree to the extent that if the outcome of the elections and Parliament members was "random" then the analysis would be more meaningful.

      However, we still need to understand what to expect from "new" parliament.
      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    12. #717
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan



      It appears the Republican party has some loose change left from the latest "elections" to apply influence with the opposition MPs.

      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    13. #718
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Here is a link to a very very good interview which sheds light on political events, landscape, future.
      The individuals are well known and even though I have criticized them many times before for representing western influences, in this interview are talking very sober, realistic and eye opening observations without propaganda.
      All of them have come to accept and find current political realities in Armenia.
      In this interview these politolog's western convictions are only affecting as a basis of ideas of democratic and national concerns that all of us would agree and have wished in Armenia.
      No matter their personal affiliations or our displeasure, this interview is the best I have seen lately in enlightening past and future political factors.
      Their views give us very correct explanations of the contrasts between our (Armenia's) political needs and reality.
      It's a long interview, over one hour. But be patient and watch. Maybe multiple times.





      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iObS4h...gFoHebSTe3sjbx
      Last edited by Hakob; 05-18-2017 at 09:22 AM.

    14. #719
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan



      A w.hor.e has been given a convent to look after.

      .
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

    15. #720
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      Re: Politics in Hayastan

      Quote Originally Posted by Haykakan View Post
      It is corruption as usual. You can turn and twist it many ways but corruption is basically the same everywhere. Some forms are more refined than others but fundamentally they are all the same. Those patgamavors are not there to govern, they are there to protect their own interests. Once that task is accomplished they see no need to actually do the governing. Here in USA the patgamavors are actually hired help of those who own the country where as in Armenia the owners are still the patgamavors. American owners have others do their dirty work for them and this is the main difference between the owners of USA and the owners of Armenia. Changing the structure of parliament, going with a prime minister vs a president, democracy vs monarchy vs whatever..makes no difference at all. That is what I have been saying for a long time and that is exactly what she is also saying here. The sad part is that she thinks she knows how things should be but has no clue how to get there or what a good government could be like. Someone mentioned lack of creativity in this forum earlier and that is what we are seeing here. Just complain without any hope or mention or even a thought of a solution...reminds you of anyone else on this forum? This lack of creativity to actually find a solution to anything is a result of the dumbing down effect. This effect is very evident in corrupt societies like USA and Armenia is starting to be similar. I doubt anyone wants change more then I do (not just in Armenia either), but I am so sick of idiots trumpeting revolution without a freakin clue in the world about a solution or consequences. Just listen to her at the end there, she literally sounds like a child...I want, I want, I want......
      That is why robots are better off ruling us, because at least they have one objective, make there country successful rather than a human.

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