Armenia and Dagestan

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

According to traditional Armenian and Georgian accounts, both these peoples, along with several other Caucasian peoples, are the descendants of Torgom. According to Moses Khorenatsi, he was "son of Tiras, son of Gomer". Furthermore, the local names for Armenia (Hayq) and Georgia (Kartli/Sakartvelo) are allegedly from sons of Thorgamas:

1. Haik (Հայք) - the legendary patriarch and founder of the Armenian nation.
2. Kartlos (ქართლოს) - the legendary patriarch and founder of the Georgian nation.
3. Bardos - Caucasian Albania
4. Movakos (Movkans) - Caucasian Albania
5. Lekos (Lek) - eponim of Leks (often times all tribes of Dagestan were called Leks)
6. Heros (Herans) - Caucasian Albania
7. Kavkasos (Kovkases) - North Caucasus (Chechen, Ingushs, ...)
8. Egros (Egers). Caucasian Albania

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Violent? Have you been to Moscow? Ever had to deal with Russian skinheads?

Armenians, Georgians, Dagestanies, Chechens, ..., muslim, or not - unite against skinheads. Maybe they are different and Armenians have problems with them time-to-time, but they are better then Russians. That's my personal opinion.

[To_Es_El_Qo]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

I have nothing against Dagestatsi, however Armenians being united with them against the skinheads is BS. It’s not like a skinheads are official group openly fighting against Armenians or others and there is a war going on between the groups.

[Aslanov]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

This is a question for those of you who know a lot of Armenia's and Urartu's history and cultural evolution.


I was wondering if anyone knows of anything that has to do with Armenia and Dagestan intersect historically?

Dagestan is a country located in South Caucasus in between Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Chechnya.

My interested is their dances, music, and national clothing.

There is a lot of similarities in our dances, music, and (as I was told) national clothing.

They dance Lezginka, but it is not like the Georgian or Chechen Lezginka. They actually have clarinet and zurna that sounds like Armenian. Very first time I heard their Lezginka with clarnet I thought it was an Armenian playing it. It is that similar.

You can hear and see music and dances here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lEQW1HxuWSc

(Pay attention at what is happening at 4th minute of the video. Don't you see some familiar elements?)

This video was a first video that got my interest in their culture and how it connects with ours. It was one Dagestani that told me that when there was no Armenia and Dagestan some of our tribes were located close to each other and they were friends. That's how we got the similarities in our cultures, but that's all he knew.

Discuss.

Dagestan are actually in Northern Caucasus and Dagestanian ethnic group is a Northern Caucasian ethnic group, alongside with Nax (Chechen & Ingush) and Circassians.

The similiarity could be from Caucasian Albania. They are our ancestors and had some connection to Armenian kingdom.

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Dagestan are actually in Northern Caucasus and Dagestanian ethnic group is a Northern Caucasian ethnic group, alongside with Nax (Chechen & Ingush) and Circassians.

The similiarity could be from Caucasian Albania. They are our ancestors and had some connection to Armenian kingdom.

Once upon a time Nahs, Armenian and Georgians were one nation. Speaking one language living in Urartu. Circasians have a little different background.

How do Dagestanies feel about Armenians? Do they make good friends or not so much? Does a religion get in a way often times.

In Armenian section of www.kavkazweb.net/forum there is a topic about Armenians and Dagestanies. It has a lot of interesting material on the topic. Only problem is, it is in Russian.

[Aslanov]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Once upon a time Nahs, Armenian and Georgians were one nation. Speaking one language living in Urartu. Circasians have a little different background.

How do Dagestanies feel about Armenians? Do they make good friends or not so much? Does a religion get in a way often times.

In Armenian section of www.kavkazweb.net/forum there is a topic about Armenians and Dagestanies. It has a lot of interesting material on the topic. Only problem is, it is in Russian.

In Moscow, of course everyone are "Kavkaz" brothers.

Even Azeris and Armenians, believe me.

But generally, Dagestanis have no issues with Armenians.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Once upon a time Nahs, Armenian and Georgians were one nation. Speaking one language living in Urartu.

That's a ridiculous claim because the Urartian language is not genetically related to any of the languages of the ethnic groups you mentioned.

Urartu was a confederation of kingdoms that united for war against the Assyrians and found political unity by doing so. This doesn't mean that all its peoples were the same. Little is known about the actual ethnic groups who lived in Urartu, as we only have royal and religious records.

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

That's a ridiculous claim because the Urartian language is not genetically related to any of the languages of the ethnic groups you mentioned.

Urartu was a confederation of kingdoms that united for war against the Assyrians and found political unity by doing so. This doesn't mean that all its peoples were the same. Little is known about the actual ethnic groups who lived in Urartu, as we only have royal and religious records.

It is not ridiculous. You go to any Chechen or Ingush you will find out the same. Why go so far away? Armenian and Georgian Historical Archives say that Hayk or Haos (after whome, as you know, we call ourselves Hay) had 7 brothers. One of them was Kartli or Kartlos (Georgians), Lek or Lekos (several Dagestani tribes, and as you might know we still call Dagestanies Leks), Kavkas (Chechens, Ingushs) and several other brothers. That's history bro. Torgom (their father) spread his lands in between his sons, and each took specific amount of people to start a new "nation". That was long before Urartu, almost 45 centuries ago (when Hayk was born). Then after centuries passed by the nations got their identifications, unique cultures, names of nations changed, language groups and so on and so on.

Search some info on Torgom or Togarmah

What I am trying to find now is what language group they spoke back then. Was it Indo-European or Caucasian. Some one told me that Caucasian didn't exist back then and they spoke an Indo-European or Pre-Indo-European. Then after long centuries of isolation (living in Caucasus) their language mutated into their own group called Caucasian. A person I spoke to wasn't that of a reliable source, so I am seeking for confirmation.

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

That's a ridiculous claim because the Urartian language is not genetically related to any of the languages of the ethnic groups you mentioned.

Urartu was a confederation of kingdoms that united for war against the Assyrians and found political unity by doing so. This doesn't mean that all its peoples were the same. Little is known about the actual ethnic groups who lived in Urartu, as we only have royal and religious records.

Does that mean people of Urartu (Ayrarat) were not ethnical armenians?

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Dagestan are actually in Northern Caucasus and Dagestanian ethnic group is a Northern Caucasian ethnic group, alongside with Nax (Chechen & Ingush) and Circassians.

The similiarity could be from Caucasian Albania. They are our ancestors and had some connection to Armenian kingdom.

Aghvans (Caucasian Albanians) were closest ethnos to Armenians in all history. In one period of history Aghvank (Albania) was part of Armenian Kingdom.