Armenia and Dagestan

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Aghvans (Caucasian Albanians) were closest ethnos to Armenians in all history. In one period of history Aghvank (Albania) was part of Armenian Kingdom.

And what nation is Aghvans now?

Yeah, not all people were Armenians. Urartu consisted of several tribes. Maybe it was predominately Armenians (or Armenian tribes), but not all of them.

That said, it reminded me of Nakhichevan. Nah people (like Ingushs) have something to do with it. I think they lived there or something, but later migrated to where they live now to survive. I don't remember much about it, but there is some kind of connection. Perhaps someone can remind me?

[jgk3]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Where do these ideas of ancient connections between Armenians and other Caucasian groups come from anyway Ervand? I know a lot of people talk in a folk way (not based on archaeological, linguistic or any kind of anthropological data) about how different races are related. In the past before the time of nations, when we were still all tribes interacting with tribes, perhaps these folk stories had some reasonable basis for being valid, as the tribes would agree with eachother about their mutual history.

But today, these folk stories told by modern people don't strike me as very reliable, they neglect the anthropological data that has been collected concerning the past. Instead, they tend to connect the dots of history in their own traditional fashion, or whatever way is trendy for them at the time.

I understand how Caucasians and proto-Armenians interacted with eachother in pre-history, but to make claims that we were all tightly knit in Urartu is a stretch, especially considering how little we know about the inhabitants of Urartu and that the only reason you get to entertain yourself with the idea of Urartu is thanks to the kind of serious work done by excavators and linguists. It is all too easy for one not acquainted with the actual scholarship on Urartu, which in itself is a mishmash of actual data and mere speculation that can be very shaky, to take the name of Urartu and a couple of 'facts' published about it, and tell a historical story about it according to their whims.

The case would be a bit different if we had an abundant source of artistic literature from the Urartian period that could give us a clearer picture of what the people there actually were like, but unfortunately, we only have religious inscriptions and royal records about wars, commerce, inventory, etc...

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Where do these ideas of ancient connections between Armenians and other Caucasian groups come from anyway Ervand?

Armenian and Georgian Historian opened and checked their national Archives. That's what they figured. Don't blame me for what they figured

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Armenian and Georgian Historian opened and checked their national Archives. That's what they figured. Don't blame me for what they figured

And do you have any sources that back up your claim because what you are telling is the first time I'm hearing of. And I agree with JGK3 that you are wrong.

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togarmah

I know wikipedia isn't always reliable source, but the sources are listed

According to The Georgian Chronicles and The History of Armenia Togarmah lived in Babylon who received the land between two Seas (Black Sea and Caspian Sea) and two Mountains (Mount Elbrus and Mount Ararat) in his possession when people started division of lands and migration in different parts of the world. He then settled near Mount Ararat and divided his land among his sons: [1] [2]

and the two sources are:

The Georgian Chronicles by Leonti Mroveli

http://rbedrosian.com/gc2.htm

"The History of Armenia" by Moses of Chorene

http://www.vehi.net/istoriya/armenia/khorenaci/01.html

After all I had my cousin call to Armenia (to her mother, my aunt) to verify this information. She is a historian.

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

And what nation is Aghvans now?

They do not exist anymore, like many other ancient people they are just gone...

That said, it reminded me of Nakhichevan. Nah people (like Ingushs) have something to do with it. I think they lived there or something, but later migrated to where they live now to survive. I don't remember much about it, but there is some kind of connection. Perhaps someone can remind me?

That is the bigest bullxxxx I ever have herd... Nakhitchevan is an pure Armenian name and has nothing to do with ingushes...

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Armenian and Georgian Historian opened and checked their national Archives. That's what they figured. Don't blame me for what they figured

So I supose this archives were always "closed" ? LOL

So they just opened them and "figured out" ? ))))

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togarmah
I know wikipedia isn't always reliable source, but the sources are listed



and the two sources are:

The Georgian Chronicles by Leonti Mroveli

http://rbedrosian.com/gc2.htm

"The History of Armenia" by Moses of Chorene

http://www.vehi.net/istoriya/armenia/khorenaci/01.html

After all I had my cousin call to Armenia (to her mother, my aunt) to verify this information. She is a historian.

I see you have very reliable sources, especially your aunt.. She must be the biggest authority in Caucasian anthropology I suppose.

...)))

[ervand]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

Mukuch
You comments are fun, but my aunt isn't the most reliable source on a planet ofcourse. Yet she is a historian, that' who we learn history from am I not right?

I don't know where the opened them. Not too long ago, but that's what I read. Sorry, I don't have the original source. If you want, just ignore it.

Nahichevan - I am telling you, I just don't remember what connection it has, but there is some kind of connection. I just can't remember to what extent. It could be very little, do be screaming =) =)

As of other resources? What's up with two books on Georgian and Armenian history? If you don't like that, what else can I offer? Sorry, but a special research on a topic by lead historians of the world does not exist yet.

[hrai]

Re: Armenia and Dagestan

They do not exist anymore, like many other ancient people they are just gone...



That is the bigest bullxxxx I ever have herd... Nakhitchevan is an pure Armenian name and has nothing to do with ingushes...

I read somewhere that chechens (!) claim descent directly from Noah and that Nakhichevan is from chechen language.

People without culture, history or morals will try to steal and hi-jack a culture, a history from others.