Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork City 19

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Cat; don't question the turks and how they masterminded the Armenian Genocide, after all they're the ones who did the Genocide from 1915 through 1923; however in some instances there was a few Armenians who kissed the behinds of the turks and have acted in extreme selfishness and have become or acted like traitors.

Tell me cat, in what nationality you will not find some traitrors?

In a nationality that is secure with its own identity you will not find talk all the time of traitors. About the only countries these days that seem indulge in this "traitor" mudslinging more than Armenia are Turkey and Russia.

In the 1930s it was perfectly natural, given the traumas, piled one on top of another, that Armenians had suffered, that there was a lot of internal conflict amongst the Armenian diaspora, with the assasination an extreme example of it. But this is the 21st century, not the 1930s.

As for who planned and carried out the assasination - nobody can seriously question the ARFs involvement in it.

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

In a nationality that is secure with its own identity you will not find talk all the time of traitors. About the only countries these days that seem indulge in this "traitor" mudslinging more than Armenia are Turkey and Russia.

In the 1930s it was perfectly natural, given the traumas, piled one on top of another, that Armenians had suffered, that there was a lot of internal conflict amongst the Armenian diaspora, with the assasination an extreme example of it. But this is the 21st century, not the 1930s.

As for who planned and carried out the assasination - nobody can seriously question the ARFs involvement in it.

I would agree with you that we are not the 1930s to talk about these matters now; but some ramgavars to this day keep on mudslinging the ARF that they were involved. But I happen to know from my own grandfather's uncle who was with Tourian himself in Smyrna and what he did to the Armenians of Smyrna and how he left them behind to be massacred. Most probably the ones who killed Tourian were a few people who's families were massacred by the turks in Smyrna as Tourian himself told them not to worry, nothing will happen to the Armenians in there. But the ARF had nothing to do with it.

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Sometimes people need to go...

yes
especially those who wave the red socialist flag instead of the Armenian tricolor...

http://www.arf1890.com/arf-logo-trans.gif

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

yes
especially those who wave the red socialist flag instead of the Armenian tricolor...
http://www.arf1890.com/arf-logo-trans.gif

Hye-Psycho jan, Ramgavars in Egypt acted so much like communists in Egypt that even the Egyptian government naturally started being on the side of the ARF because ARF doesn't believe and never believed in communism, so naturally an Egyptian nationalistic government they tend to be on the side of democratic nationalistic ARF's side. It was sheer shame how Ramgavars carried on in Egypt as well as in Lebanon and Syria. Years ago they started a huge fight against the Tashnagtsagans and one Ramgavar man threw a big rock on my mother's uncle's head and cracked his head, he had to be hospitalized. They acted against the ARF people as if they were turks. I tell you it was shameful times. Thank God things are better now as they wisened up; but still every now and then they want to mudsling Tashnagtsoutyoun to put down the grand deeds that they did throughout their 119 years of great achievements as a super nationalistic organization.

BTW; I like your "zinaneshan" it looks good.

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Sireli Anoush,
bickering between Armenian Political Parties over petty (western) ideological grievances only serves to destroy the Armenian Civilization. what happened to members of your family and indeed others is tragic and absolutely uncalled for. For this Reason i don't proclaim any party allegiances, I only worship and obey my nation and the intellectual fruits from her wisdom - especially the principle of Unity.
i give praise, where praise is due - a warm Congratulation to parties like the ARF who have contributed to our azadoutioun and survival. But all sides of the spectrum must stop this mud-slinging and look at the bigger picture.

BTW; I like your "zinaneshan" it looks good.

shad shnorhagalem, likewise

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Sireli Anoush,
bickering between Armenian Political Parties over petty (western) ideological grievances only serves to destroy the Armenian Civilization. what happened to members of your family and indeed others is tragic and absolutely uncalled for. For this Reason i don't proclaim any party allegiances, I only worship and obey my nation and the intellectual fruits from her wisdom - especially the principle of Unity.
i give praise, where praise is due - a warm Congratulation to parties like the ARF who have contributed to our azadoutioun and survival. But all sides of the spectrum must stop this mud-slinging and look at the bigger picture.

You are right, the mudslinging is totally unnecessary today especially for the diasporan Armenians when we need each other; amidst assymilation problems who needs fighting? Thank God we now have our Republic and Artsax. If there's less corruption in the motherland it would be better so the poor will not travel to Russia or other lands to make ends meet.

shad shnorhagalem, likewise

[Gavur]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Whether Tourian was assasinated by ARF was not true. I know for truth from my own grandfather's memoirs that it was allegations and holds no truth. Archbishop Tourian was the source that most of the Armenians were massacred in Smyrna, Turkey in 1922; because he himself told Armenians until the very last minute not to worry that there was not going to be any massacres or killings. He believed or wanted to believe the words of the British ambassador in Smirna who said that Kemal Attaturk is coming to Smyrna with white gloves (meaning not to kill). Yeah right, turks and white gloves. The Archbishop Tourian told to the Armenians not to worry time and again until the very last minute and because of it 130,000 Armenians were massacred in 1922 in Smyrna. Meanwhile Archbishop Tourian escaped from the back door of the Church and travelled to the United States ONLY saving himself. Therefore years later a few of the survivors from the Smyrna massacres remembered all this with vengence and killed him. But many wanted to find Tashnagtsoutyoun as the culprit and put a number of Tashnagtsagan young gentleman who were innocent in the prisons and let them rote. But Tashnagtsoutyoun didn't do it, Tashnagtsoutyoun had nothing to do with it. It was a lie.

I will dig into my own grandfather's memoirs if you wish to have more proof; but this is what transpired. What I am telling you now was the truth! My grandfather's memoirs are in Armenian, it has been translated lately in English, but I have to search for it if you must. I know all this for fact as my grandfather's uncle was Archbishop Tourian's assistant "Arachnortagan pokhanort Tourian Arkebisgobosin" and he was also left behind with the 130,000 Armenians who have been told by Archbishop Tourian NOT to worry there was not going to be any massacres; yet they were all annihilated by the attaturks.

10x Anoush for the info.You're a breath of fresh air.

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Let me say that it was a shame whoever killed Tourian and that they did it in a Church. Even though he was far from being a saintly person, and unfortunately to this date the Armenian Churches are separated thanks to Archbishop Tourian. That's also a shame.

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

10x Anoush for the info.You're a breath of fresh air.

Dear Gavur jan; thank you for your kind remarks. But let me reinstate that what I have posted above is the absolute truth as I know these facts from very close sources of mine who happen to know it only too well (my own grandfather and his priest uncle).

Tourian was not a good spiritual leader; he was a coward and he abandoned his congregation and practically gave them to the enemy like Judith himself, and plus he took with him all the valuable belongings of the Church to the U.S. with him. The Armenian Church in question was St. Stepannos Church; it was a large and a huge Church and very rich indeed. As I stated above my own grandfather's uncle was "arachnortagan pokhanort Serpazan Touriani"; Tourian's assistant, and he saw how Tourian before escaping to the US took with him all the beautiful Church's valuables. Then before going, Tourian told his congregation not to worry. He deceived his congregation and the poor Armenians in there were slaughtered along with his own assistant, my great great uncle (a saintly priest) who gave all the manuscripts of the St. Stepannos Church to my grandfather before he was taken away by the turks. My grandfather was also an important man, he was a colonel in the turkish army then as he was graduated from the turkish "esbayits varjaran" military school of turkey. Both my grandfather and his priest uncle were taken to the slavery dungeons after that. After three years being thrown in the turkish dungeons as a slave my grandfather has escaped by changing his name to a Greek name but unfortunately his priest uncle died in the turkish dungeons.

As I said earlier, all Tourian's malicuous doings to his congregation and the Armenians in Smyrna wasn't enough for him, he further came to the United States and he divided the Armenian Churches in North America; and thanks to his ill doings, the Armenian Churches throughout North America to this date are still divided.

[Anoush]

Re: Դուրեան Սրբազան Նահատակ, Նիւ Եորք 1933 (Arbp Levon Tourian Murder, NewYork Cit

Dear Gavur jan; thank you for your kind remarks. But let me reinstate that what I have posted above is the absolute truth as I know these facts from very close sources of mine who happen to know it only too well (my own grandfather and his priest uncle).

Tourian was not a good spiritual leader; he was a coward and he abandoned his congregation and practically gave them to the enemy like Judith himself, and plus he took with him all the valuable belongings of the Church to the U.S. with him. The Armenian Church in question was St. Stepannos Church; it was a large and a huge Church and very rich indeed. As I stated above my own grandfather's uncle was "arachnortagan pokhanort Serpazan Touriani"; Tourian's assistant, and he saw how Tourian before escaping to the US took with him all the beautiful Church's valuables. Then before going, Tourian told his congregation not to worry. He deceived his congregation and the poor Armenians in there were slaughtered along with his own assistant, my great great uncle (a saintly priest) who gave all the manuscripts of the St. Stepannos Church to my grandfather before he was taken away by the turks. My grandfather was also an important man, he was a colonel in the turkish army then as he was graduated from the turkish "esbayits varjaran" military school of turkey. Both my grandfather and his priest uncle were taken to the slavery dungeons after that. After three years being thrown in the turkish slavery dungeons my grandfather has escaped by changing his name to a Greek name but unfortunately his priest uncle died in the turkish dungeons.

As I said earlier, all Tourian's malicuous doings to his congregation and the Armenians in Smyrna wasn't enough for him, he further came to the United States and he divided the Armenian Churches in North America; and thanks to his ill doings, the Armenian Churches throughout North America to this date are still divided.