Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Thank's Anoush jan. I only briefly understood this treaty in the past.

Saco jan and Pedro Xaramillo jan; you are both welcomed.

I put it out so that you'll all know the Sevres Legal Treaty that it was signed and it should be materialized and it was and it is for our behalf. Especially after the GENOCIDE and all what we lost since then (our lands, our building, our churches and our towns apart from the most important of all "the majority of the people, our people").

Versus

The illegal Kars Treaty that Attaturk pushed it and revoked The Sevres Treaty, because he didn't want to give any of our lands back to us after they committed the Genocide to the Armenian people; so he pushed that illegal Kars Treaty (and now our measerable government wants to sign that illegal Treaty) and rob Armenians of any of their rights to have any land under the sun.

I pray and hope that Tashnagtsoutyoun would somehow put a stop to it.

[Sako]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I know, lol, please tell how far you have come regarding the html stuff btw as I don't want to be sending stuf you aldready did, will send what I got just doing a small redo in accordance with the new logo

Ok bro. Regarding HTML, I haven't done much because I've changed the sites layout almost completely and it all looks a hundred times better then before. I have to send you all that. By the way, send me the chat system if your done scripting it and all along with everything else you said you completed while I was away.

I'll be seeing Arman probably today so I'll talk to him seriously about the site. last time we talked, we only had a brief chat but he agreed to help as much as he could. Let's see what he'll be doing now. We have to divide all the tasks between the three of us as soon as possible. Read all my letters bro and reply to me so I'll be able to send you all the new stuff. Once your done catching up, we'll be able to start bringing our giant to life !

Saco jan and Pedro Xaramillo jan; you are both welcomed.

I put it out so that you'll all know the Sevres Legal Treaty that it was signed and it should be materialized and it was and it is for our behalf. Especially after the GENOCIDE and all what we lost since then (our lands, our building, our churches and our towns apart from the most important of all "the majority of the people, our people").

I have a very interesting idea actually regarding these treaties. C&A aims to get in touch with the new generation's of the world, not just the older generations so what we've done is create a place any type of person will feel attracted to. Literally any type of person. Anyways, what we've realized (a very long time ago, lol, like before we were born) is that most don't like to read so I'm planning on summarizing all these treaties and allowing our members to read their brief versions if they don't have time to read the longer one or are simply impatient. The same will be possible when reading almost everything else e.g. news, articles, etc. I think this is the best way to read out to the new generation.

I pray and hope that Tashnagtsoutyoun would somehow put a stop to it.

Don't worry, I doubt the Kars treaty will see daylight because if it does, the Armenian people will skin and scalp Serj along with his little group of friends. Let's not jump to any conclusions yet like Eddo said. It's time to start worrying though, that's for sure. The Kars treaty may not see daylight but something will and I just hope it's not even worse then Kars.

By the way, Serj is a DASHNAK guys and gals, if you didn't already know ......

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I thought Serj is HHK (Հայաստանի Հանրապետական Կուսակցություն, Hayastani Hanrapetakan Kusaktsutyun, HHK), aren't they Conservatives/Republicans, I thought ARF are Socialist?

Or am I thinking of the wrong Serj (Serj Sarsyan)

[Sako]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

A few people told me he's a Dashnak (Not in the forums, here in Armenia)

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Hmmm, I checked all his history and his press statements, he was never a Dashnaktsutyun supporter, he was briefly in the Communist Party during Soviet days and then joined his Repbulcian Party, which is Conservative, the ARF is against any recognition or selling out to Turkey or its treaties as far as I have read, what are the Hnchaks doing these days, I know Gen. Atranig (a man who I regard highly) was once a Hnchak before he became a Dashnak

[londontsi]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Thank you Anoush for the refrences for Sevri and Karsi Tashnakir.

It is also interesting to note the agreements that existed between the United Kingdom and the Ottoman Empire.
This is referred to as the " Cyprus Convention". A google search will throw plenty of material.

"The Cyprus Convention of 4 June, 1878 was a secret agreement reached between the United Kingdom and the Ottoman Empire which granted control of Cyprus to Great Britain in exchange for their support of the Ottomans during the Congress of Berlin. This agreement was the result of secret negotiations that took place earlier in 1878."

The sultan ceded the administration of Cyprus to Britain in exchange for guarantees that Britain would use the island as a base to protect the Ottoman Empire against possible Russian aggression. The British had been offered Cyprus three times (in 1833, 1841, and 1845) before accepting it in 1878.

http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/8.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_Convention

One has to wonder how much political support this was for the operations Turkey undertook

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Hmmm, I checked all his history and his press statements, he was never a Dashnaktsutyun supporter, he was briefly in the Communist Party during Soviet days and then joined his Republican Party, which is Conservative, the ARF is against any recognition or selling out to Turkey or its treaties as far as I have read, what are the Henchaks doing these days, I know Gen. Antranig (a man who I regard highly) was once a Hnchak before he became a Dashnak

Pedro, the Henchak Party was established before Dashnaktsoutyun. A good deal of Henchakiagans later enrolled in the Dashnaktsutyun's Party; so it is very possible that Zoravar Antranig later joined the Dashnaktsagan Party.

I never heard either that Serje Sarksyan was ever a Dashnagtsagan. As you stated above, he was in the Communist Party first and probably when the Communist Party collapsed, then he joined the Republican Party. Also, if he was a Dashnaktsagan; Serje undoubtedly would've collaborated with Dashnaktsutyun a great deal. When Dashnaktsutyun wanted to know turkey's and Armenia's pre-border opening agreements the "Roadmap" project; Serje didn't reveal it to either Dashnaktsutyun nor to Gakik's Party. He wanted to keep it in secrecy for himself and probably for solely his immediate cabinet. Plus Armenian Revolutionary Federation pulled out from the governing coalition on April 27/09 as Rustamian stated. If Serje was indeed a Dashnaktsagan, that wouldn't have happened as Dashnaktsagan leaders work together not apart. Plus if Serje the traitor was a Dashnaktsagan he would't have collaborated with our enemy the turks or revoke the GENOCIDE issue and agree with our NUMBER ONE ENEMY THE TURKS to open the borders; to agree to forego the Genocide acceptance; to accept the Kars Treaty which is illegal in it's entirety; to forego our legal Treaty the Sevres Treaty and finally to collaborate with both our enemies the vermin turks and the azeris to pull out Armenia's army from Artsakh. All of these things wouldn't have happened whatsoever if he was a Dashnaktsagan (a member of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation). Dashnaktsutyun wouldn't have allowed it to happen. NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I agree, I read about Zoravor Antranig, he was indeed as you say part of the Hnchak party, but became Dashnaks as he disagreed with some of their aims

Thats why I was confused when Saco's friend claimed that Serj Sargsyan is Dashnaktsutyun, they have never ever compromised Armenia's security nor its integrity, as far as I can see with Serj he only cares about money and what brings wealth (possibly to him personally), a Dashnak like Atranig, Njdeh and Yeprem Davityan would never have sold out to Turkey and they have never

I asked about the Hnchaks because I was curious whether they are still running, but I think the best for Armenia would be a Dashnak or Hnchak governemnt, if I were to analyse the situation

I know there were discrepancies regarding the voting of Serj Sargsyan, some say it was rigged and there was voter intimidation, whats your opinion on this Anush jan, I mean I wouldn't doubt it if he would willingly destroy his nation for money from Turkey

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I agree, I read about Zoravor Antranig, he was indeed as you say part of the Hnchak party, but became Dashnaks as he disagreed with some of their aims

Thats why I was confused when Saco's friend claimed that Serj Sargsyan is Dashnaktsutyun, they have never ever compromised Armenia's security nor its integrity, as far as I can see with Serj he only cares about money and what brings wealth (possibly to him personally), a Dashnak like Atranig, Njdeh and Yeprem Davityan would never have sold out to Turkey and they have never

I asked about the Hnchaks because I was curious whether they are still running, but I think the best for Armenia would be a Dashnak or Hnchak governemnt, if I were to analyse the situation

I know there were discrepancies regarding the voting of Serj Sargsyan, some say it was rigged and there was voter intimidation, whats your opinion on this Anush jan, I mean I wouldn't doubt it if he would willingly destroy his nation for money from Turkey

Pedro jan, if both our countrymen with Dashnaktsutyun and also with Henchakyans do not rise up and immediately revolt against this horrible Serje's government but let him completely destroy Armenia and the future of any of our existing or future lands that it belonged to us after the Genocide, including the security of Artsakh; Serje will "sell them all out" for money and/or immaturity. He is probably doing it for money and also being extremely immature about it and selfishly uncaring for his country. The vital security of the country is surely being jeopardized by his actions by collaborating to this extent with our number one enemy or enemies I should say (both the turks and the azeris). With this "Roadmap" project, he is handing over the keys of both Armenia and of Artsakh. Thus Dashnaktsutyun should immediately take over the government. That's my consent to our countrymen for the safety of our country + Artsakh. Or Armenia should re-vote Dashnaktsutyun.

Of course I wasn't on the side of Levon Ter Petrossian; because he was a turkish lover and he wanted to sell out Artsakh altogether. So obviously, since Serje was a general from Artsakh; most of us put their hopes towards him - as it is though he is just as corrupted as the traitor Levon Ter Petrossian. So who cares whether the votes were rigged or not? Both of them "jehennem yertan" as far as the well being and the vital security of our nation is concerned.

I only trust Dashnaktsutyun. They are a nationalistically derived Party; but the country didn't vote them. No, they wanted someone from within. Let them have it now. "Togh himag arnen" when the guys from within are super corrupted and they are resolving to "selling out their country". Who cares if they're from within or not. The most important government is the one who is most patriotic and can be trusted for the vital safety of the state and the interest of the people.

If it materializes, Serje Sargsyan will go through history as one of a few of our traitor princes who used to sell out our Kings to supposedly become Kings themselves. Both Serje Sargsyan and Levon Ter Petrosyan are from the same mold as far as I am seeing clearly and observing closely - traitors.

[Sako]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Thats why I was confused when Saco's friend claimed that Serj Sargsyan is Dashnaktsutyun, they have never ever compromised Armenia's security nor its integrity, as far as I can see with Serj he only cares about money and what brings wealth (possibly to him personally), a Dashnak like Atranig, Njdeh and Yeprem Davityan would never have sold out to Turkey and they have never

Whoever said that wasn't my friend. He had some knowledge of politics and we just happened to have a chat with each other. I guess he was wrong or maybe I misunderstood him but it's very unlikely. I remember him mentioning that Serj was a Dashnak like three times.

I asked about the Hnchaks because I was curious whether they are still running, but I think the best for Armenia would be a Dashnak or Hnchak governemnt, if I were to analyse the situation

Yeah, I guess so. The problem with our gov. though (regardless of the party, don't think the Dashnaks and/or Hnchak's are demigods) is that every party places his/her relatives in most of the political posts. So when someone does something wrong, you won't be able to approach anyone because one is connected to the other in a major way. NO ONE will allow his/her relative(s) to get hurt so no matter what happens ... YOU will always come out wrong or no one will listen to you. For example, at the moment, who should we protest against? Or rather, to whom should we present our case, bro? Everyone's a xxxxx. No one will listen to us. To make someone listen, you have to first gather all the people together but that won't happen in the near future because of our Armenian mentality. You know what happens? You can go to anyone's house here in Armenia and hear them blame the gov. in ways you haven't heard in your life and see many tears but when they stand in front of an official ... they don't blame them. On the contrary, they say everything is fine and grin. Do you understand? Call it fear, call it whatever you like. The fact is, no one wants to stand up and those that do WON'T because no one will back them up. They know that very well. That is why the Armenians in the Diaspora should AT LEAST unite to set an example or something for most of the Armenian's here instead of dissing each other and their country.

Coming back to the gov. If you want to get rid of one xxxxx, you'll have to get rid of all the others as well. The Dragoon has many heads and when you cut one, another replaces it. That's what I want you to understand bro. Our country is going through a rough time and only the people, by uniting can, change that. At the moment though, that won't happen. Here's the most IMPORTANT reason why.

You know how the gov. keeps everything under it's hands? By making everyone think about finding food FIRST and doing everything else later. They've turned us into animals. When you don't have enough food, NATURALLY, you won't say too much. You'll be very cautious and silent, if not seriously afraid. So that's why, no one says anything because they don't have time to think about anything else. That's what's going on today and it is the best way to keep everything under COMPLETE control...

Only if the people unite can this change but Armenia's new generation is very spoiled. I blame the gov. mostly, if not completely.

I know there were discrepancies regarding the voting of Serj Sargsyan, some say it was rigged and there was voter intimidation, whats your opinion on this Anush jan, I mean I wouldn't doubt it if he would willingly destroy his nation for money from Turkey

Guys, let's not go that far. Serj is an ass but he isn't Levon. Yesterday I was talking to some serious people and I asked them if their happy that Serj got elected and they said they were because Levon would destroy this country. I can even outline HOW if you like. Serj is a xxxxx but he isn't going to sell our country. Inku chariki pokr tesakna...

I also asked them whether they fear these borders opening and they said that there is almost nothing to really fear. Armenia has been doing business with Turkey for a long time even with the borders closed and no one has complained. They said that these borders opening will only help Turkish companies, travellers, and/or merchants. We won't lose much. I'm not saying we shouldn't be afraid but after that talk, I've eased up a bit because those people presented the case to me almost entirely, just the way it is. These borders opening won't SELL our country or anything like that. Serj has made that clear and if he breaks his promise, everyone will revolt, I'm sure. Plus, I don't think he's a traitor like Levon. He isn't that much of a traitor. There's a lot of tension flying around and Serj won't get away with his xxxx this time, that's for sure. So I urge him to tread softly. Let's see what happens...