Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

[Palavra]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Palavra; please leave the real history to the historians, remember? That's also the motto of your turkish government. So leave it to them.

We are not talking about history but agreements. It is a political thing.

Sevres Treaty is the ONLY legal document there is vs. Kars Treaty it is an illegal document pushed solely by attaturk and jeudio-bolshevik agendas to illegally nullify everything else BUT THEY CANNOT.

Neither Patisah nor parliment signed it. How can It become legal? because you want?

Jeudio-Bolshevik's just simply gave our Artsaxian lands and Naxichevan to azerbaijan which is an illegal state. So don't change history all by yourself.

and, armenia was occupied by bolsheviks. do you realy think every nation who gain independence can change all world?

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

We are not talking about history but agreements. It is a political thing.



Neither Patisah nor parliment signed it. How can It become legal? because you want?



and, armenia was occupied by bolsheviks. do you realy think every nation who gain independence can change all world?

Exactly it is a political matter and it is a very legal document as it was signed by the world politician elite as well as your government high ranked officials, and whether you like it or not it is a Legal Document Palavra.

It is not Armenia who wants to change the world; it is rather turkey who wants to and trying to control Armenia and the US by illegally paying millions of dollars to US congressmen to deny the Genocide.

The fact that Armenia was occupied by the Bolcheviks was NOT in our interest or liking. They have unfortunately imposed it on us by their powers; again read history and then you shall see the light.

[Palavra]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Exactly it is a political matter and it is a very legal document as it was signed by the world politician elite as well as your government high ranked officials, and whether you like it or not it is a Legal Document Palavra.

Infact not. No parliment accepted it.(Except greece). It is not important who signed it, without parliement acceptance, It is not legal and It does not bind anyone. Politicians or high ranked officials have no right to make an agreement. Only parliments have that right.(at least for a lot country.)

I am sure, we cannot make an agreement If only greece accepted it.

It is not Armenia who wants to change the world; it is rather turkey who wants to and trying to control Armenia and the US by illegally paying millions of dollars to US congressmen to deny the Genocide.

I do not see why we are talking about genocide againt. We are talking about kars and serv treaty.

The fact that Armenia was occupied by the Bolcheviks was NOT in our interest or liking. They have unfortunately imposed it on us by their powers; again read history and then you shall see the light.

Every agreements is generally imposed by others but still agreements bind everyone who signed it.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Infact not. No parliment accepted it.(Except greece). It is not important who signed it, without parliement acceptance, It is not legal and It does not bind anyone. Politicians or high ranked officials have no right to make an agreement. Only parliments have that right.(at least for a lot country.)

I am sure, we cannot make an agreement If only greece accepted it.



I do not see why we are talking about genocide againt. We are talking about kars and serv treaty.




Every agreements is generally imposed by others but still agreements bind everyone who signed it.

Read it again and again. I think you didn't understand it in it's entirety nor you read it carefully.

[Palavra]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

That is not an argument but an excuse for not answering. Anyway, let me use Declaration of Independence of Armenia...

1. The Armenian SSR is renamed the Republic of Armenia (Armenia). The Republic of Armenia shall have its flag, coat of arms, and anthem.

So every agreement made by Armenian SSR bind Republic of Armenia. It is same entity. Just name changed.

http://www.armeniaforeignministry.com/arm/index.html

[Palavra]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Dashnaks Insist On Territorial Claims To Turkey

Armenia does not recognize Turkey’s territorial integrity and may in the future lay claim to lands that were populated by Armenians before the 1915 genocide, a senior member of the governing Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun) claimed on Friday.

“The current government of which we are a part and the president whom we have supported and will support will not abandon territorial claims,” Giro Manoyan, a spokesman for the nationalist party’s ruling Bureau, said. “Armenia’s official position is that the issue is not on our foreign policy agenda. That means it can be on the agenda tomorrow.”

Recognition of Turkey’s current borders has been one of Ankara’s preconditions for normalizing relations with Armenia.[B] Official Yerevan says it recognizes the existing Turkish-Armenian border which was set by the Treaty of Kars signed in 1921 following the country’s takeover by Bolshevik Russia. The government of the then Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic was among the treaty’s signatories

“Armenia is the successor state of the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic,” the Armenian Foreign Ministry explains on its website. “All of the agreements which the ASSR signed continue to be in force unless new agreements have been signed to replace them.”At the same time the Armenian government has repeatedly dismissed Turkish demands to officially declare that it will never claim any lands in what is now eastern Turkey.

“No Armenian government can do that because I believe the Armenia people would not allow that government to remain in power,” Manoyan said during a roundtable discussion in Yerevan.

“The fact that there are no territorial claims today, does not mean we can’t lay such claims tomorrow,” he told RFE/RL separately.

The possibility of such claims has never been publicly acknowledged by President Robert Kocharian, Defense Minister Serzh Sarkisian and two other parties represented in Armenia’s government. In a famous 2001 interview with CNN-Turk television, Kocharian sought to assure Ankara that its recognition of the 1915-1918 mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as genocide would not prompt territorial demands from Yerevan.

“Genocide recognition by Turkey will not lead to legal consequences for territorial claims,” Kocharian said at the time. “The problem is that those events have taken place in Turkey, and the Republic of Armenia did not exist at that time, and today's Republic of Armenia is not the heir to those lands,” he added.

David Phillips, a U.S. scholar who chaired the Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission, wrote in a 2005 book that Kocharian’s interview “helped mollify [Turkish] concerns about Armenia’s intentions.”

But according to Manoyan, the Armenian leader simply stated that “there is no such issue on the agenda of Armenian foreign policy today.” “The president also said genocide recognition would not automatically result in territorial claims,” he said, denying any disagreements on the issue between Kocharian and Dashnaktsutyun.

Manoyan revealed last summer that the party, which also has chapters in major Armenian communities abroad, plans a major shift in its long-running campaign for international recognition of the Armenian genocide. He said Dashnaktsutyun will strive to force Turkey to pay reparations.

Kocharian, however, had told CNN-Turk that for him genocide recognition is “more of a moral issue.”

http://www.armenialiberty.org/content/Article/1580232.html

[Sako]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Tsavali e Saco jan shat tsavali e mer garavaroutyan yev irents chapazants anhokoutyan yev lirp akahutyan yev geghdodutyan vijage.

El mi asa , zuzvutsrin toghin es lirperu!

I tell you what Saco jan, I haven't been working for a good many years as I brought up my child and then I went to college and I am still not working as I looked for a job sporadically and I couldn't find a job yet because of the recession and the bad economic times we are having. But I have some money stacked up. Please please let me help your relative the gifted Mr. Manuk Harutunyan with my dollars for the good of preserving our national cultural gifts that are priceless, and indeed I know the value only too well. I am also a very cultural human being. I have been a poet reciter and I am a classical soprano singer and I looooove music as well. Please let me help your relative so he'll be able to get back that priceless instrument that he sold and that he won't sell other instruments too because of lack of money.

He didn't sell it only because of lack of money . I wish it was only because of that. He also sold it because of this stupid gov. I mean it's hard enough collecting and preserving all these instruments without getting stabbed from time to time by the gov. This last two month were a very sad month for not only my family (my grandmother and one of my very close relatives past away) but his as well. His brothers son (25) passed away because his sugar level was high . A lot of things happened and a few days back, he went through a very difficult phase. I mean it's hard to understand without actually feeling it, you know? It's as if no one gives a xxxx if you exist or not. That's what you start feeling like when after 30 years, people treat you as if your just another person when in reality he's done more for us then our entire gov. has. For the first time, he took one of his instruments and sold it. It was over a hundred years old but it wasn't a very, very important instrument, you know? Although, naturally, its a great loss. It's a part of our past. I'm just glad it wasn't too big of a part. Your eyes will hit the ceiling when you see his collection and what kinds of instruments he has preserved. Komitas used to have a Sring (it's like a pipe) and guess who's preserved it till today? By the way, we'll be showcasing a very big part of his collection in C&A, including the Sring (which I got to play briefly once) . I'm sure you'll love it. Anyways, he asked for a proper work shop from our gov. (they could've easily given it to him, their making 15 story buildings all over the city, they could've EASILY given one little flat to him) nothing much, and they STILL didn't give him anything. Who the xxxx are these people? I've never met more retarded individuals. Dzer yerkirna pahpanum vochkharner. Mikich mutatsek urodner.

Anyways, Anoush jan, I don't know what to say. I really don't. I understand how you must feel after reading all I wrote (imagine how I feel every freakin day) but I'm sorry, I can't accept your offer. You have your own family to look after. I've lived in America for a long time so trust me, I know what's going on and that is exactly why I don't want you to do anything hasty. Don't worry, everything will be fine. I'm doing everything to help Mr. Manuk (he isn't my blood relative but he is very close to our family, extremely close) and so many like him in my own special way and I think C&A is the best way because it isn't just a site. Many don't know about him but whoever has heard him simply play has walked out of his room astonished. Once people know more about him, I'm sure many of them will start helping him and our country itself. That's why I'm working hard to release CA as soon as possible. If anyone wants to really help, let them just show their support. That's how they can help. It will help many, many people and our country in a lot of great ways.

By the way did I mention that we'll be opening an online store in C&A ? It will be THE biggest Armenian store on the net and we will be selling 1st Class instruments (made by Mr. Harutsunyan himself), souveniers, xxxellery, and basically EVERYTHING you can think of related to Armenia. There is no such store out there right now. I'll be helping many different people by opening this store alone. Mr. Harutsunyan will be also supervising our instrumental page and will answer any and all questions related to Armenian music, instruments, and Armenia itself. We'll be presenting him like never before and I'm sure a lot of great opportunities will come up once our site is up and running.

You are doing this for a really great person and I don't think it's in my position to deny you the right to help but please Anoush jan, think everything over ten times and then send me a PM if you decide to help. This is a really big step, no doubt, and this is what I call "walking the talk" but please don't do anything without thinking about it properly. The US is in a crappy state right now and you have your own family to worry about. If after looking at the bigger picture you decide to still help then I have no objections whatsoever Anoush jan. We could really both help Mr. Harutsunyan out. A little support, even verbally, is enough for him to do more then this pathetic gov. ever could.

Thank you so far for all of your support Anoush jan.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I am very sorry for the passing away of your grandmother and your relative's loss Saco jan. Asdvads hokinin lousavor bahe. Tsavali e nayev Baron Manuki shat yeridasart yeghpoortii mahvan negadmamp. Khentrem tsavagtsoutyunners ese im goghmanes nayev iren.

Ayo gouzem okdagar ellal Baron Manukin.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Saco jan, you can also give me Baron Manuk's e-mail address so that I can say my condolences to him personally for his loss of his brother's son and also give him for the time being my support to his great works in the past and his wonderful endeavors of the future. Shenorhagalutyoun.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Togh ouzadsnun chap khosin. Menk mer tserke ounink Sevres-i orenskidagan Tashnakire yev minchev ores adiga izoru e. Menk bedk e ar-ayjem polor ashxarhin aganche letsenenk inchbes nayev mer Hay joghovurte yev Hay yeridasartoutyune zankaharelov polor ashkharhin Sevres-i Tashnakri garevorutyan yev mer iravunknerun.