Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Ah - so I'm speaking to an ARF nutter who has been marginalised? But why are you complaining, aren't you marginalising yourselves by choice? Go wave about your Sevres Treaty and see who cares. Nobody.

Ah I see and I am talking to a Zionist nutter!

Of course you don't care about the Legal Sevres Treaty why should you? It doesn't concern you one bit. As a matter of fact it disrupts your agenda. But don't speak about everyone. You are speaking very unintelligently when you are making generalizations like that. You know what they say about people who generalize, don't you? Well go and learn it for yourself. Only bigottry fits your picture.

Go and see how you can help the Israelites, do care about them.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Listen cat stop coming here and dirtying my thread.

Moderators please tell this bell-the-cat to stay away from the thread I have created and he is putting it down unjustifiably, with bigottry and with his dirty minded demeanor. Please moderators don't let him do that to the good thread I created with my good intentions!!!!!!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Ah I see and I am talking to a Zionist nutter!

Of course you don't care about the Legal Sevres Treaty why should you? It doesn't concern you one bit. As a matter of fact it disrupts your agenda. But don't speak about everyone. You are speaking very unintelligently when you are making generalizations like that. You know what they say about people who generalize, don't you? Well go and learn it for yourself. Only bigottry fits your picture.

Go and see how you can help the Israelites, do care about them.

And who do you think is going to be concerned about the Sevres treaty? Your imaginary friends (presumably not imaginary xxxish ones), with their imaginary vast army that is going to selflessly conquer all that territory for you, and then gift it to you, and do all that just because (for some unfathonable reason) they love Armenians so much? Does even a single cell in your body live in the real world?

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

and who do you think is going to be concerned about the sevres treaty? Your imaginary friends (presumably not imaginary xxxish ones), with their imaginary vast army that is going to selflessly conquer all that territory for you, and then gift it to you, and do all that just because (for some unfathonable reason) they love armenians so much? Does even a single cell in your body live in the real world?

please moderators interact with this person!!!!!

He is coming in here and dirtying this good thread!!!!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

please moderators interact with this person!!!!!

He is coming in here and dirtying this good thread!!!!

Answer the question! Who (apart from ARF extremists doing some public posturing) do you think is going to be concerned about the Sevres treaty?

[jgk3]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Anoush, he makes a good point that in the real world, at the moment, nobody in power cares about appeasing Armenians with the Sevres treaty, he isn't dirtying this thread by pointing that out.

Of course, it is in the interests of Armenians today, and the world at large to be able to learn about the Sevres treaty, however Armenia today is not in the position to advance it herself. If Dashnaks wish to keep fighting for it, that is their interest. I am personally happy to see that there is an active movement that tries to keep the voice of this document alive, giving it a chance to materialize some day. But know well that Armenia cannot get away with holding steadfast to the Sevres Treaty against Turkey in its current prominence, something has to happen to Turkey that would make a vacuum out of its eastern lands, and god knows how eager the Kurds are towards laying claim to those same lands we do.

It is not a simple matter, but again, it is important for us to know our history, to know about the Sevres Treaty and how the treaties of Lausanne and Kars tried to annul it, and in a practical sense, mostly achieved their goals by rewarding Turkey instead of Armenia. It is related to the events genocide... Armenians of that period fighting back heroically to survive as a people on their native lands. Difficult victories that were robbed from us out of political intrigues favouring Turkey. We must remember, and of course, there is nothing stopping us from someday advancing the Sevres Treaty more boldly when conditions allow for it. Militarily however, the ridiculous inequalities between Armenia and Turkey would have to change before such a condition can be seen, and it is evident that too much distress in this region, rather than relative peace between the superpowers of Russia and Nato, could prove to be a path towards WWIII, which I fear would result in the destruction of the Armenian people even further. In general, the superpowers of the world don't want to play hardball against eachother, not here, and for now, we have no choice but to play along.

This is why we must keep our resolve towards our culture and our traditions strong, let the Turks know that even if they can play around with us economically, they cannot shake our spirit that remembers the past well, Armenians must find confidence in their lives and in their culture in the face of all odds, this is the trial God intended for the Armenians, we mustn't cower from it. It is imperative that we make the best out of the fact that we have our country today.

Finally, I don't want fighting in this thread, lets move on.

[Anoush]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Anoush, he makes a good point that in the real world, at the moment, nobody in power cares about appeasing Armenians with the Sevres treaty, he isn't dirtying this thread by pointing that out.

Of course, it is in the interests of Armenians today, and the world at large to be able to learn about the Sevres treaty, however Armenia today is not in the position to advance it herself. If Dashnaks wish to keep fighting for it, that is their interest. I am personally happy to see that there is an active movement that tries to keep the voice of this document alive, giving it a chance to materialize some day. But know well that Armenia cannot get away with holding steadfast to the Sevres Treaty against Turkey in its current prominence, something has to happen to Turkey that would make a vacuum out of its eastern lands, and god knows how eager the Kurds are towards laying claim to those same lands we do.

It is not a simple matter, but again, it is important for us to know our history, to know about the Sevres Treaty and how the treaties of Lausanne and Kars tried to annul it, and in a practical sense, mostly achieved their goals by rewarding Turkey instead of Armenia.

I don't want fighting in this thread, lets move on.

I wonder why is he calling the Dashnaktsutyun Party nutty? He is not making any sense jgk3 when he is assuming that the world now as it is will approve it. I never said or implied that, he did or he is assuming it all by himself. I have time and again stated that it is a Legal Document versus the Kars or Lausanne Treaty that it is not. Him and Palavra are together pressing that it is when it isn't. I merely want my Armenian brothers and sisters to know about this and let the world know it. In time.

However there is no sense in calling prominent Parties such as The Armenian Revolutionary Federation nuttey. Not necessary at all. That's like putting down a prominent and a very nationalistic organization and he has no merit or weight or justification to put our good Parties down like that. What is your interest in here cat?

Btw; jgk I well know where your heart is at and I am proud of you always. I know you are happy about these very important documents for us to know and like I said in time. I hope.

[Palavra]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

so by this flawed logic, republic of turkey is responsible for all acts committed by ottoman empire.

dont you claim it?(You hade double standard here. You want Turkey acceptance of AG.) You are right baby. Turkey payed debt of ottomans. Turkey is responsible from ottomans act at ww1.(Of course, with kars treaty, ROA forsaken her rights about this.)

[Palavra]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

I'm not quite sure who is believing whose lies here. Has Turkey actually started to believe its own propaganda (the propaganda that it closed the border because Armenia had territorial claims on Turkey)? Or has Armenia started to believe the Turkish propaganda (believing that it has got ongoing territorial claims when actually it has made none)?

Haha. I am curious about this too.

Or are they both engaged in a scam, promising to do things that don't actually need to be done, inventing a problem just so that they can say they have solved it, all to disguise the fact that they are leaving the big problems unsolved and the big decisions undecided?

I dont think we need such a new problem. We have already a lot problems.

More likely, Turkey needs to invent a reason for opening the border, and the reason will be "Armenia has now given up its territorial claims".

Reason was karabag but I think that this is for public relation in Turkey.

Whatever - if Armenia gets something by giving up nothing, it's good for Armenia (and it marginalises the ARF nutters). And if Turkey really thinks it has got something new, when actually it had it all the time, then the joke is on Turkey.

It is just an excuse. Infact, I do not think Turkey afraid ROA for anything.(Includes AG recognision.) Most probably, Turkey is using this excuse for isolating ROA.

The Treaty of Kars is NOT a legal document. The Sevres Treaty however is.

How would you like it if some of us calls your Zionists nutters?

Repeat it 1.000.000 time. It wont change fact that only greece accepted this treaty at her parliamentary. My friend, It is one think to want or hope something. It is another to lie your ownself.

This is why we must keep our resolve towards our culture and our traditions strong, let the Turks know that even if they can play around with us economically, they cannot shake our spirit that remembers the past well, Armenians must find confidence in their lives and in their culture in the face of all odds, this is the trial God intended for the Armenians, we mustn't cower from it. It is imperative that we make the best out of the fact that we have our country today.

JGK3 you cannot protect your anti-turkish(hate) culture. Infact, you cannot protect even your pro-armenian culture. Welcome to globalism.

If borders open, Most probably Armenia will never gain "western armenia?" back in short or moderate time. You cannot trade Turkey When you are scheming aggresive actions. do you realy think that we are so naive? do you think we will also give ROA arm?

I wonder why is he calling the Dashnaktsutyun Party nutty?

Because they are. cant you see how they harmed armenian nation? Nationalist are generally as idiot as donkeys. They cannot see real world. They cannot evaluate the facts, They do stupid acts and They harm their own nation.

This is same for Turkey. Just look what ittihatists did to ottoman empire.

Let me ask you another question. do you realy think ROA gain karabag war?(I did not ask, whether azeris lost.) As I said before, Nationalist have no capacity to evaluate facts. is ROA more powerful or less powerful?(think in short run and long run.)

[hrai]

Re: Sevri Tashnakir vs. Karsi Tashnakir

Let me ask you another question. do you realy think ROA gain karabag war?(I did not ask, whether azeris lost.) As I said before, Nationalist have no capacity to evaluate facts. is ROA more powerful or less powerful?(think in short run and long run.)

Perhaps for a different thread, but I struggle with this question. The result of liberation of Artsakh is that Armenians live on Armenian lands.
No war back then would have seen a massive continuation of az. pogroms against Armenians.