Armenian Highlands: the birth place of civilization

[Armenian]

"We Armenian"? Are you starting to use the royal "we".

Tsk, tsk, tsk. You just 'had' to use your flat English wit, didn't you.

OK, serious now. You wrote:

All of which seems fair, but then you spoil it by adding: And thus descend into some nationalistic fantasy that would do Ataturk proud.

No dingbat, it would give Ataturk nightmares.

If Atatuk's claims had any scholarly value, I would not attack it. On the other hand, everything I state I can back up with scientific evidence (archeological, anthropological, theological, folkloric, linguistic) from Armenian and non-Armenian sources.

For decades we have been force-fed absurd fairytales coming out of Europe and your Island, its time to put the real historic value of the Armenian Highlands back on to the international stage.

The migratory pattern of Ayran nations would, according to some theories, make the Gordion knot appear like a mere bow-tie.

The bottom line is, the oldest settlements yet found of so-called Aryans are within Asia Minor/Caucasus.

More and more linguists are now coming to the realization that the Proto-Indo-European language did indeed originate within Asia Minor/Caucasus.

More and more people are coming to the realization that the Armenian nation is native to Asia Minor and Caucasus.

Again, we are the surviving remnants of the great ancients such as Hittites, Hurrians, Urartians, the Haik and Ar-mens. If you oppose this claim of mine, then your opposition is merely based upopn your 'personal' problem with the matter and has nothing to do with the actual facts that corroborate my claims.

Again, I am not claiming personal credit, as an Armenian, for any of the great accomplishments of the proto-Armenian tribes of the ancient world, its simply your profound jealousy and 'Island' paranoia that is making you see Ataturk in me.

I tell you what catman, I will debate you word-for-word anything found within Ataturk's Sun theory and prove to you that its merely a fantasy. The so-called "Sun Theory" has no scholarly value what so ever, its simply a by-product of an insecure nation looking for belonging within the world. Concurrently, I will go over with you word-for-word, all of the proof that exists regarding my claims about the Armenian Highlands. Armenia's (the geographical location's) prehistoric cultural legacy is open for all to see, that is if they have eyes and at least half of brain.

Read my numerous posts within the thread I posted earlier with objectivity and an open mind. And stop your flat English humor.

Cheerio

[bell-the-cat]

We Armenian have claimed for a long time that proto-Indo-European tribes originated in the geographical region called Historic Armenia.

"We Armenian"? Are you starting to use the royal "we".

OK, serious now. You wrote:

I, moreover, claim that human civilization first emerged within the same geographical region in question as well. Nonetheless, I am not trying to claim credit as an Armenian. I know full well that nations, as we know them today, did not exist back then. The Armenian nation, as we know it today, only began to form during the classical period.

All of which seems fair, but then you spoil it by adding:

However, we Armenians are the direct decendants of those ancient aboriginals of the Armenian Highlands that gave birth to human civilization and the proto-Indo-European language.

And thus descend into some nationalistic fantasy that would do Ataturk proud.

Indo-Europeans and human civilization, emerged from within Asia Minor/Caucaus. That is my point.

I beg to differ, that is not your point. Your point is:

Yet again proving that the ancient Aryans originated within the Armenian Highlands. Yes, three thousand years before Christ, that is, two thousand years before the time when Indo-European Armenians were supposed to have enter the region via Thrace - according to Euromorons, J-e-w-s and some low lives within the Armenian community.

However, of course, it is perfectly possible for both to be true, or for neither. The migratory pattern of Ayran nations would, according to some theories, make the Gordion knot appear like a mere bow-tie.

[skhara]

"No dogs or Armenians allowed".

Karo, was this on the news somewhere. I've never heard it.

[Armenian]

Once again you are confusing "Armenia" as a term for a geographical region with "Armenian" as a racial group. Mind you, you are in good bad company: all the silly little Turks who tried to rename animals that incorporated the word "Armenia" in their scientific name.

Once again, I am confusing no such thing. I thought that my statement was self-explanitory. I guess it was not.

Re-read my comment, its a reply to morons who still insist that Aryans, that is Indo-Europeans, came into the Caucasus region only during the classical era. Implying that we Indo-European Armenians are not aboriginals to the Armenian Highlands. We Armenian have claimed for a long time that proto-Indo-European tribes originated in the geographical region called Historic Armenia. These latest findings, along with many others, simply confirm our statements. See this thread for further details: http://s4.invisionfree.com/Armenian_...topic=199&st=0

I, moreover, claim that human civilization first emerged within the same geographical region in question as well. Nonetheless, I am not trying to claim credit as an Armenian. I know full well that nations, as we know them today, did not exist back then. The Armenian nation, as we know it today, only began to form during the classical period. However, we Armenians are the direct decendants of those ancient aboriginals of the Armenian Highlands that gave birth to human civilization and the proto-Indo-European language.

Indo-Europeans and human civilization, emerged from within Asia Minor/Caucaus. That is my point.

[karoaper]

Armenian likes Stormfront.

I've visited that forum a couple of times. I have an unhealthy fascination with utter morons and self-hating pricks who channel that self-hate into biggoted and obsessed visions of others. Maybe Armenian has the same unhealthy fascination. I can't imagine any Armenian would associate with loosers who put signs in streets of Paris that read "No dogs or Armenians allowed".

[bell-the-cat]

Some interesting news just breaking from Armenia.

Recently, an archeological site within Armenia revealed five throusand year old "Aryan" (Indo-European) artifacts and human remains. Yet again proving that the ancient Aryans originated within the Armenian Highlands. Yes, three thousand years before Christ, that is, two thousand years before the time when Indo-European Armenians were supposed to have enter the region via Thrace - according to Euromorons, J-e-w-s and some low lives within the Armenian community.

Once again you are confusing "Armenia" as a term for a geographical region with "Armenian" as a racial group. Mind you, you are in good bad company: all the silly little Turks who tried to rename animals that incorporated the word "Armenia" in their scientific name.

[Armenian]

Some interesting news just breaking from Armenia.

Recently, an archeological site within Armenia revealed five throusand year old "Aryan" (Indo-European) artifacts and human remains. Yet again proving that the ancient Aryans originated within the Armenian Highlands. Yes, three thousand years before Christ, that is, two thousand years before the time when Indo-European Armenians were supposed to have enter the region via Thrace - according to Euromorons, J-e-w-s and some low lives within the Armenian community.

YEREVAN, Armenia Nov 9, 2005 — Archeologists said Wednesday they have unearthed burial mounds dating back to the third millennium B.C. which they believe contain remains and trinkets from ancient Aryan nomads.

Historian Hakob Simonian said Wednesday that the four mounds were among 30 discovered about 35 miles west of the Armenian capital Yerevan, containing beads made of agate, carnelian and as well as the remains of what appears to be a man, aged 50-55. Also found were remains of domesticated horses and glazed pottery appearing to show chariots, Simonian said.

The Aryans, who later became known as Persians, were largely grassland nomads who settled in what is today Iran and eventually in parts of India.

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=1297926

Note: don't you just love how J-e-w-s in the American media try to belittle such issues:

"Aryans, who later became known as Persians, were largely grassland nomads who settled in what is today Iran and eventually in parts of India."

[jgk3]

very interesting stuff... Something to shove into the faces of Greeks, who take so much more credit for all their achievements than we do.

[Armenian]

The Lost World: New book places the birth of civilization in Carahunge

By Gayane Mkrtchyan
ArmeniaNow Reporter

A new book claims that Armenia’s Carahunge observatory is evidence of the world’s oldest civilization. Scientist and radio physicist Paris Herouni argues in “Armenians and Old Armenia” that an advanced civilization existed in Armenia 7,500 years ago. Herouni, a graduate of Radiotechnical Department of Moscow Power Institute has 350 published scientic works, including monographs and 23 patents. Since 2000 he is a member of the group “People to People Ambassador” USA, which includes 30 top scientists of the world.

Herouni, 72, says that he was not attempting to gain fame or revolutionize history with his book, published in December 2004. Through scrupulous study, he says, he reached the conclusion that the stone circle at Carahunge is proof that Armenia’s civilization predates the Egyptians and Sumerians by 2,500 years.

“There are magnificent buildings in the world – the pyramids of Egypt, Stonehenge, wonderful temples in South American rainforests, which were created at least 6-15,000 years ago. Who are their authors? The world doesn’t know,” he says.

“Scientists find that all of those are the result of a developed culture, but they don’t know where that culture came from. This book gives an answer: Carahunge explains that 7,500 years ago Armenians possessed a stable and extensive knowledge. They knew that the Earth was round, knew its sizes. They knew that the Earth is rotating around its axis, as well as the laws of the movement of the cone-shaped axis, known as precession.”

Every year since 1994 Herouni has organized scientific expeditions at his own expense to study Carahunge, which is situated near the town of Sisian, 200 kilometers south-east of Yerevan. It is made up of hundreds of vertically standing stones of which 223 were numerated by Herouni’s scientific expedition. Of these, 84 stones have holes measuring 4-5 centimeters in diameter and prepared with care, pointing in different directions. Carahunge consists of 80 stone telescopic tools, which have preserved their precision. Herouni says that one can use them for work even today.

“By the precession laws of the Earth’s axis, using four telescopic methods, I calculated Carahunge’s age. It turned out to be 7,500 years old. This figure always terribly surprises everyone, because the most ancient civilization is believed by historians to have begun 5,000 years ago, and Carahunge had already a developed civilization some 2,500 years before that,” he says. After making his research and calculations, in 1999 the scientist got in touch with Prof. G. S. Hawkins in Washington, who is regarded as the world’s foremost specialist on stone monuments. Hawkins has been involved in studies of Stonehenge for all his life.

Herouni says that he was particularly interested in Hawkins’ opinion and soon he got the professor’s conclusion: “I admire the precise calculations you have made.” Hawkins acknowledges that Carahunge is 7,500 years old. “I am most impressed with the careful work you have done, and hope that the result will ultimately get recorded in literature,” Hawkins wrote in his letter.

Carahunge is 3,500 years older than England’s Stonehenge and 3,000 years older than the Egyptian pyramids. The total area of the observatory is 7 hectares. According to the scientist’s findings, a temple consisting of 40 stones built in honor of the Armenians’ main God, Ari, meaning the Sun, is situated in the central part of Carahunge. Besides the temple, it had a large and developed observatory, and also a university that makes up the temple’s wings.

Herouni shows photographs shot from a helicopter and says: “This is the central circle with 40 stones, which are without holes, these are the southern and northern wings. Soon this territory will be fenced and will be turned into a museum. Carahunge is situated at a height of nearly 1,750 meters, in a plane area.”

The stones of Carahunge are made of basalt. Each of them weighs up to 10 tons. Those stones without holes make up one tool together with those having holes in them. Over millenniums the stones became worn and grown over with thick layers of moss. However, Herouni says that the holes have been rather well preserved since they were cleanly processed once. The holes are telescopic tools that look at different points on the horizon.

Showing the photographs, Herouni explains in detail: “Often you look through holes at some point of the zenith and see nothing, but in the past according to the law of precession, a star rose or passed through there. Knowing the laws of precession, I set forth formulas in my book and knowing today’s positions of the stars, their coordinates, I count back and see that once a star appeared or went down from that same place. It is those calculations that allow me to decide the age.”

He says that the brightest star of the constellation of the Swan, Alfa, whose name is Denema, passed through Carahunge’s zenith 7,630 years ago. Carahunge’s scientists had enough time both to build tools and work with them. And to achieve all that, they had already gone the way of sufficient development. According to Herouni, when Armenia embraced Christianity, Carahunge had already operated for 5,800 years.

“The observatory’s scientists knew the planets of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Saturn, and Jupiter. They knew about the solar system 6,000 years before Copernicus, Galileo, Kepler and Newton. Carahunge proves that 7,500 years ago mathematics, technologies, a form of written language were developed in Armenia, as well as a state with a thousand-year-long history, with laws and order,” says Herouni.

Carahunge literally means sounding stones. The scientist is convinced that they had a lot to say to people and continue to say today. Herouni explains that the “ch” phoneme gradually changed into “j”. He also says that there is a similarity in the names of the observatories of Stonehenge in England and Calenish in Scotland.

Herouni himself named the observatory Carahunge in 1994. Carahunge village is situated 30 kilometers from the observatory near the town of Goris. There are two Carahunge villages also in Artsakh and Herouni has started to research the origin of the villages’ names.

“I understood that when Armenia embraced Christianity, when temples were being ruined, monuments were being destroyed and books were being burned, people barely had time to run away and so they founded villages with similar names in remote places,” he says.

“In Carahunge many stones are broken, uprooted. There are also many standing stones, some of the holes of which are broken, there are half-finished tools. It can be felt that they suddenly stopped the work.”

It is mentioned in the book that besides Carahunge Armenians also had standing stones near the large village of Kaghzvan situated in Turkey to the west of Mount Ararat, again with holes, which bore pre-Christian crosses on them. Herouni got the photographs of the stones from his Dutch friends, who had climbed Mount Ararat.

The book “Armenians and Old Armenia” consists of three parts. The first is Carahunge, the second is devoted to the analysis of the Armenian language, and the third part is the history of Armenia beginning from the 40,000th year up to the adoption of Christianity. The book is published in 2,000 copies, most of which are sent abroad. Herouni finds that restoring Armenian history means restoring the authenticity of the world’s history.

Paris Herouni has quite serious scientific achievements in the main scientific directions – in the spheres of radio-physics, radio-engineering, radio-astronomy. Herouni’s scientific trends are recognized and are being applied in developed countries.

Source: http://www.armenianow.com/eng/?go=pub&id=536#

[Armenian]

Metsamor Civilization

Written by Grigor Hakobyan

Through out the last two hundred years, hundreds of world scholars have spent thousands of hours of in-depth scholastic research, in their pursuits to identify the unique birthplace of the world civilizations; The birthplace of the first human intelligence in the world. From the Siberian mountains of Ural to the Sub-Saharan Africa, from the Sub-Tropical jungles of Peru to the warm shores of the Mediterranean/Adriatic, from the highest tops of the Himalayas to the soaring twins of the Mt. Ararat, the beginning of the first human civilization have been pre-supposed. But the highly sophisticatedarchaic ruins of the Mestamor, lying at the heart of the Armenian Highland emerged to be the most likely of them all.

Extensive archeological finds of obsidian instruments roughly fashioned by the primitive man indicate ancient human settlements in Armenia, dating back to the Old Stone Age (Abbevillian culture) and further onwards. Thus, the archaic history of the human race begins to unravel in Armenia, dating back to 500,000 years ago.

The earliest civilization that has been found in Armenia, and is believed to be the first in the world is the Metsamor Civilization, which is dating back to around 5,000 BCE. The ancient capital of the Metsamor kingdom is located on the area of 26 acres, which consists of a cyclopic stonewalls, citadel within them and a vast cosmic observatory. The fortress of Metsamor is further enhanced by a large series of oval shaped dwellings along with adjacent buildings and an underground tunnels.

The "heavenly" knowledge of metal processing thought to be received from the pre-deluvial "gods" of the ancients was the most sophisticated of its kind ever found to be of that time period. Metsamor was known to have processed a high-grade gold, copper, and various types of bronze, strychnine, manganese, zinc, mercury and iron. Metal goods made in the Metsamor were highly valued and widely known by its surrounding cultures, stretching out as far as Central Asia, Chine, India and Egypt.

Around 11BCE, Metsamor city-capital grew to occupy 247 acres of land, extending itself up to the Lake Akna. Some 500 m. southwest of the citadel, archeologists have found another stretch of land, about 247 acres big, hosting ancient dwellings enough to accommodate about 75, 000 people. A city of such size rivaled any those of the archaic world.

Another swat of land, around 200 acres big, located next to the city constitutes to be the main burial ground of the archaic Metsmorians, where archeologists have managed to retrieve the remnants of 30, 000 people. Very interesting commonality with the Egyptians that Metsamorians had was to burry the rich and noble people separately, just like the Valley of the Kings in Egypt. However, such distinction have helped to avoid grave robbers, thus providing scholars with a significant amount of information into the traditions and burial rights of the deceased on their way to the afterlife.

Armenia's Fertile Crescent was located in the land between rivers, the famous Tigris and Euphrates, further encompassing the land behind the Arax River. However, within the Ararat valley, a much smaller crescent of land still bearing the marshland once covering the entire Ararat Valley is found. One of the oldest settlements found in Armenia, beyond Erevan extend to the caves and stone-inscriptions found on the Geghama Ler (Mt), where only few sites have so far been excavated.

The metal ore mined in Armenia was the purest in the world that resulted in the formation of a culture, where the use of metal idols and building of temples made out of metal have been widely practiced. Their complex cosmic observatories made out of stone stood proudly, charting the vastness and enormity of the nightly sky.

Source: http://www.angelfire.com/hi/Azgaser/Metsamor.html

Tour Armenia: Metsamor

"Located just outside the village of Taronik, Metsamor (which means "black swamp" or "black quicksand") is a working excavation and museum on the site of an urban complex with a large metallurgical and astronomical center (occupied ca. 5000 BC-17th c. CE).; The site occupies a volcanic hill and surrounding area. The citadel on top of the volcanic hill is about 10.5 hectares in size, but the entire city is believed to have covered 200 hectares at its greatest extent, housing up to 50,000 people (making it a huge metropolis in those days).; Nearby spring-fed marshes and lakes suggest the extent of the wildlife that covered the area up to the bases of Mount Aragats and Ararat.; The area was rich in water, mineral and hunting resources at the time of the development of Metsamor.; The nearby Metsamor river provided both transportation and the first irrigation source recorded in Armenia."

"Excavations began at Metsamor in 1965 and are still in progress, led by Professor Emma Khanzatian.; The most recent excavation work occurred in the summer of 1996, along the inner cyclopic wall.; Excavations have shown strata of occupancy going back to the Neolithic period (7,000-5,000 BC), but the most outstanding features of the site were constructed during the early, middle and late Bronze Ages (5000-2,000 BC).; Inscriptions found within the excavation go back as far as the Neolithic period , and a sophisticated pictograph form of writing was developed as early as 2000-1800 BC.; The "Metsamor Inscriptions" have a likeness to later scripts, which influenced Mashtots' alphabet (see Evolution of the Armenian Alphabet)..."

Source: http://www.tacentral.com/history/metsamor2.htm