armenia of 1918 and the Bolshoves

[arabico]

Does anyone have a map of the Armenian republic in 1918? why did Bolshevs give up kars to turkey in 1921?

Also if the Bolshovs did not come to power in Russia, do you think the borders of Armenia now would be different?

[ace]

Umm..if they didn't come to power in Russia, I think Turkey would've persued war with the new found republic and we would've been under Turkish rule instead of Soviet.

[arabico]

I've been researching on this subject for the last 3-4 hours and I came to a different conclusion.

during 1914-1916 tzarist Russia was on the offensive against ottoman turkey. They captured many regions like kars, erzerum, van...

When the Bolshevic revolution happened in Russia 1917, Russia withdrew leaving the Armenian alone to protect themselves.

The Armenians did well fighting the Turks alone keeping many regions like kars until 1920 when the Bolshoves came to Armenia. In 1921 they gave up Kars to Turkey without a fight!!

[ace]

What if the Republic wasn't conquered by the bolsheviks? Turkey demanded that land back and the bolsheviks (and i think the dashnuks?) had no power...they had to agree to Turkish demands to prevent another war.

If they didn't agree Turkey would've attacked and taken ALL of it anyway. And if we weren't under soviet protection, we would've eventually warred with Turkey...and easly lost.

Well, thats my opionin anyway.

[arabico]

what if the Bolshevic revolution never happened?

[ace]

Thaaan im guessing we would've never been annexed into the soviet union and would've had to have protect ourselves BY ourselves.

When WWII started, and the Germans attacked Stalingrad, the Turkish army rose to its feet, waiting for Russia to fall, so it can attack the former republic again. I am lead to believe that if it werent for the Russians (now and before) Turkey would've made some bullxxxx excuse for attacking us and would've conquered our land. That would lead to the succesful genocide of the Armenian people. One way or the other.

[ace]

Im convinced if it werent for the Russians. The Armenian people would've been wiped off the face of the planet hundreds of years ago. We'd be worse than the Assyrians.

[Կարմիր Բ]

The Armenians did well fighting the Turks alone keeping many regions like kars until 1920 when the Bolshoves came to Armenia. In 1921 they gave up Kars to Turkey without a fight!!

Wrong. The Dashnaks gave Kars in the treaty of Alexandropol between Armenia and Turkey so that they can fight against the armenian Bolshevicks. It is the biggest treachery they have ever done. The Dashnaks gave them Kars and the Turks recognised the Republic of Armenia as sovereign state.
For this reason, Turkey is the first country to recognise Armenia as an independent State.

Basically the bourgeois of our nation chosed to fight against their own countrymen instead of the Turks. If they didn't signed the Treaty of Alexandropol the Red Army could have demanded Kars from the Turks.

what if the Bolshevic revolution never happened?

If the Bolshevik revolution didn't took place there would no be Armenia today. The armenians would have been more or less what the Chechens are today, in the best case. The only reason that we have an independent state is because of that revolution.

If the Bolshevik revolution happened sometime later, we have would both an independent state and Greater Armenia. Had our bourgeois , in this case the Dashnaks, sided with the Soviets, history would be very different today.

[ace]

Wrong. The Dashnaks gave Kars in the treaty of Alexandropol between Armenia and Turkey so that they can fight against the armenian Bolshevicks. It is the biggest treachery they have ever done. The Dashnaks gave them Kars and the Turks recognised the Republic of Armenia as sovereign state.
For this reason, Turkey is the first country to recognise Armenia as an independent State.

I didnt say that...why did it quote me? I was actually the one who sad the dashnuks gave our land away...

[Կարմիր Բ]

I didnt say that...why did it quote me? I was actually the one who sad the dashnuks gave our land away...

I am sorry, i wanted to quote arabico instead of you. I apologize.