Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #11
    Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

    Originally posted by Armanen View Post
    http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

    Excellent points made in the above blog.
    What "excellent points" does he make? Was he expecting ordinary, patriotic Armenians, who don't care for politics, to be happy? Naturally ordinary Armenians would be upset over taking the statue down in Sochi, as every Armenian should be.

    as for the argument, " political influence is attained not by erecting monuments here and there and felling good about it but by making deals behind closed doors!", that's not very well thought out. The Armenian community is NOT seeking to "attain political influence through erecting monuments." The statute is to a small, simply, and symbolic sign of honor for the Armenian community, and it is their right as citizens of russia to seek it. DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DISMANTLE THE MONUMENT TO SOGHOMON TEHLERIAN, BECAUSE IT DOES NOTING TO FURTHER POLITICS? o, right, the ordinary, patriotic Armenians don't care for politics, the statute is just a small sign of respect for the Armenian community in the US, and something ordinary armenians to be proud of. It doesn't matter that it doesn't further politics. Everytime i visit, every time parents visit with their children and tell them about this great hero, and instill in their hearts patriotism, that helps keep them Armenian and thus serves an important function.

    Nevertheless, general Andarnik's statue ultimately belongs in Armenia - not in Russia, not anywhere else.
    That's not for you to say. Once you live in and become a citizen of Russia, then you will have any right to voice any opinion on the matter whatsoever. If your goal is the demolishments of statues in honor of Armenian heroes, however, it is your right (as a US citizen) to start a campaign to take down the one devoted to Soghomon Tehlerian in Fresno.

    The Armenian community should have obtained permission before putting up the statute, that goes without saying, but the arguements that "author" makes, such as "Why should we Armenians expect Russian officials to sabotage their dealings with Turk over a statue that ultimately belongs in Armenia."

    That is a silly and immature argument for someone who claims to have half a brain to make. Armenians in Russia are citizens in that country and have cultural rights. That was not a political issue between russia and Armenia, but an internal domestic issue regarding Russian citizens. The fact that Armenians have a monument to Soghomon Tehlerian in Fresno DOESN'T get in the way of strategic alliance between Turkey and the US It is the right of Armenians as citizens of the US to have monument, and Turkey has no right nor business interferring in the rights and lives of American citizens of Armenian origin.

    It would have been nice to have one of our famous generals' statue proudly displayed in Russia. Perhaps one day such a thing will become a reality.
    One day came sooner than our 'friend' could have imagined. The statute is proudly erected in Adler, Russia.
    Last edited by Artsakh; 06-10-2011, 12:51 AM.
    BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

    <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
    --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

    Comment


    • #12
      Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

      From the information available there are two possibilities why this statue was not allowed to stay where it was erected.

      Either ( as explained by the officials ) no planning procedure were followed and therefore the official decision was “justified”, OR
      there was political pressure from Turkey not to allow this statue to remain.

      Only way forward is to call the Russian Authorities bluff and put in an application for a statue and see if they drag their feet.

      If permission is granted we get the statue, better late than never.
      If we do not get a permission then we know why.
      Then time for grass root campaign and pressure on the authorities.
      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

      Comment


      • #13
        Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

        At one time, the "author" of that blog was blindly supporting the ARF. Now he has turned to talking against "nationalists" and blindly supporting the Russian Federation no matter what she may do....very strange personality indeed...
        BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

        <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
        --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

        Comment


        • #14
          Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

          Originally posted by Artsakh View Post
          At one time, the "author" of that blog was blindly supporting the ARF. Now he has turned to talking against "nationalists" and blindly supporting the Russian Federation no matter what she may do....very strange personality indeed...
          People are not stuck in the same opinions/beliefs till the end of their lives, especially when it comes to volatile geopolitical issues... sometimes it's the circumstances that dictate you to have a change of mind.

          Comment


          • #15
            Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

            Originally posted by Lucin View Post
            People are not stuck in the same opinions/beliefs till the end of their lives, especially when it comes to volatile geopolitical issues... sometimes it's the circumstances that dictate you to have a change of mind.
            That's very true.
            Specially when it applies to an individual.
            I certainly have changed my mind over time based on realisation of my misjudgements, maturity, life experience etc.

            Things are slightly different when one has an audience and therefore a “loyal” following.
            This following has been built over time based on arguments presented .

            What should the audience do, walk away or taken in with the new arguments.
            How can he build another “loyal” audience if he has the proviso “I have every right to change my mind depending on circumstances”.

            Not sure how such a blog can have credibility and taken seriously.
            Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
            Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
            Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

            Comment


            • #16
              Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

              Originally posted by Artsakh View Post
              What "excellent points" does he make? Was he expecting ordinary, patriotic Armenians, who don't care for politics, to be happy? Naturally ordinary Armenians would be upset over taking the statue down in Sochi, as every Armenian should be.

              as for the argument, " political influence is attained not by erecting monuments here and there and felling good about it but by making deals behind closed doors!", that's not very well thought out. The Armenian community is NOT seeking to "attain political influence through erecting monuments." The statute is to a small, simply, and symbolic sign of honor for the Armenian community, and it is their right as citizens of russia to seek it. DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DISMANTLE THE MONUMENT TO SOGHOMON TEHLERIAN, BECAUSE IT DOES NOTING TO FURTHER POLITICS? o, right, the ordinary, patriotic Armenians don't care for politics, the statute is just a small sign of respect for the Armenian community in the US, and something ordinary armenians to be proud of. It doesn't matter that it doesn't further politics. Everytime i visit, every time parents visit with their children and tell them about this great hero, and instill in their hearts patriotism, that helps keep them Armenian and thus serves an important function.



              That's not for you to say. Once you live in and become a citizen of Russia, then you will have any right to voice any opinion on the matter whatsoever. If your goal is the demolishments of statues in honor of Armenian heroes, however, it is your right (as a US citizen) to start a campaign to take down the one devoted to Soghomon Tehlerian in Fresno.

              The Armenian community should have obtained permission before putting up the statute, that goes without saying, but the arguements that "author" makes, such as "Why should we Armenians expect Russian officials to sabotage their dealings with Turk over a statue that ultimately belongs in Armenia."

              That is a silly and immature argument for someone who claims to have half a brain to make. Armenians in Russia are citizens in that country and have cultural rights. That was not a political issue between russia and Armenia, but an internal domestic issue regarding Russian citizens. The fact that Armenians have a monument to Soghomon Tehlerian in Fresno DOESN'T get in the way of strategic alliance between Turkey and the US It is the right of Armenians as citizens of the US to have monument, and Turkey has no right nor business interferring in the rights and lives of American citizens of Armenian origin.



              One day came sooner than our 'friend' could have imagined. The statute is proudly erected in Adler, Russia.

              You missed the points again. Russia has multi billion dollar economic ties with turkey, yet they have made it very clear to the turks to keep their paws off Armenia. I'd rather the turks pressure the Russians into not having such statues than to pressure them to not supply Armenia with low cost or free weaponry or give it near unconditional support in the international arena. And the flip side, how much worse would it be if Russia were to allow statues but trade its strong relations with Armenia for better relations with ankara? At the end of the day, one is sentimental the other is geopolitical and can make or break Armenia.

              As for the US comparisons, Washington does the exact opposite. They allow Armenians to put up whatever sentimental statues and monuments that they wish, but they do not recognize the Genocide, unlike Russia, and they have strategic military ties with the turks.
              Last edited by Armanen; 06-12-2011, 05:23 PM.
              For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
              to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



              http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

              Comment


              • #17
                Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

                Originally posted by Armanen View Post
                You missed the points again. Russia has multi billion dollar economic ties with turkey, yet they have made it very clear to the turks to keep their paws off Armenia. I'd rather the turks pressure the Russians into not having such statues than to pressure them to not supply Armenia with low cost or free weaponry or give it near unconditional support in the international arena. At the end of the day, one is sentimental the other is geopolitically and can make or break Armenia.
                Yes I agree, we shouldn't get to caught up in such symbolic moves, and concentrate on the fact that our strategic ties are warm with Russia, and Turkey is not affecting them. Russians may take down a statue for the Turks, but that's like throwing a bone to a dog, important thing is our strategic relations are intact (and I highly doubt Russians would betray us like that for Turks).
                Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
                ---
                "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

                Comment


                • #18
                  Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

                  Originally posted by Armanen View Post
                  You missed the points again. Russia has multi billion dollar economic ties with turkey, yet they have made it very clear to the turks to keep their paws off Armenia.
                  No, I didn't miss any points. And the last I checked, the Armenian government, the only entity capable of actually changing policies towards Russia, did not call for an emergency meeting regarding Russia not allowing a statute to be put up in Sochi. That ordinary Armenians get upset about that does not change official Yerevan's foreign policy, and it was quite stupid of that "blog" to even exaggerate the seriousness of not allowing a statute that was put up without any approval (and therefore illegally). That "blog" is blaming ordinary armenians for getting upset. Well, I for one am happy they got upset. It was only natural for them to get upset. In fact, if they didn't get upset, that would be cause for worry.

                  The second point is that neither Turkey nor Russia would allow a statute to get in the way of their trade and business dealings. Therefore, by allowing a Statue RUssia would not risk business dealings with Turkey.

                  If you're not forgetting, the Armenian community in Iran was going to show an Armenian Genocide movie and Turkey also threatened Iran to not allow it to be shown. That threat didn't work and the movie was allowed to be shown and, in case you didn't know, trade between Iran and turkey is at an all time high, more than tripled since last year.

                  I'd rather the turks pressure the Russians into not having such statues than to pressure them to not supply Armenia with low cost or free weaponry or give it near unconditional support in the international arena.
                  Those two are not interrelated and have nothing to do with Russian policy toward Armenia. It's quite a stupid connection to make.

                  As for the US comparisons, Washington does the exact opposite. They allow Armenians to put up whatever sentimental statues and monuments that they wish, but they do not recognize the Genocide, unlike Russia, and they have strategic military ties with the turks.
                  You're making it as if there's an either/or proposition in policies towards treatment of Armenia/Armenians. No, Washington does not do the exact opposite. In fact, that Armenian-Armenians put up a moument to Soghomon Tehlerian has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH ARMENIA. As American citizens, the Armenian community thought it was important to have the statue and they pursued it through legal means and got it up. This is internal, domestic, logal matters, and had NOTHING whatsoever to do with US dealings with the Turks nor its policy towards Armenia.
                  Last edited by Artsakh; 06-12-2011, 11:54 PM.
                  BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

                  <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
                  --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

                    Bottom Line: The statute to General Andranik is a community issue. If the Russian-Armenian community feels strongly enough that it is very important for their community to have such a statue, it is their right to pursue and fight for it, within the means of the laws.
                    BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

                    <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
                    --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

                      Originally posted by Mos View Post
                      Yes I agree, we shouldn't get to caught up in such symbolic moves, and concentrate on the fact that our strategic ties are warm with Russia, and Turkey is not affecting them. Russians may take down a statue for the Turks, but that's like throwing a bone to a dog, important thing is our strategic relations are intact (and I highly doubt Russians would betray us like that for Turks).
                      Wrong! By propogating Armenian-ness, Armenian culture, and Armenian hertiage, you are helping serve Armenian interets, the interest of keeping Armenian communities from assimilating and keeping them Armenians, Armenians who someday may contribute greatly to their homeland. It is through such small, "symbolic" ways that you further that "political agenda" and instill patriotic spirit in diasporan Armenians. Otherwise, they would just assimilate quickly and become whatever and not care for Armenianness or the homeland.

                      At the same time, by you being "policially correct", that is what does NOTING TO FURTHER ANY AGENDA. are you an official in yerevan who has any say over foreign policy strategies? NO! of course not! be politically correct all you want, praise the russians all you want to the point of lessening Armenia, what does that change "on the ground"???? That is what does NOT change anything! youre no diplomat capable of effecting any change in any policy.
                      BUY "WHO IS MONTE." Proceeds from this film will benefit the families of the fallen soldiers of the Karabagh war. Available at: www.armenianmusic.com

                      <<Երբ իրիկունը գլուխներդ դնեք բարծին որ քնանաք, մի քիչ մտածեք ազգի մասին>>
                      --ՔԱՋՆ ԱՆԴՐԱՆԻԿ

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X