Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

[Artsakh]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

Excellent points made in the above blog.

What "excellent points" does he make? Was he expecting ordinary, patriotic Armenians, who don't care for politics, to be happy? Naturally ordinary Armenians would be upset over taking the statue down in Sochi, as every Armenian should be.

as for the argument, " political influence is attained not by erecting monuments here and there and felling good about it but by making deals behind closed doors!", that's not very well thought out. The Armenian community is NOT seeking to "attain political influence through erecting monuments." The statute is to a small, simply, and symbolic sign of honor for the Armenian community, and it is their right as citizens of russia to seek it. DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DISMANTLE THE MONUMENT TO SOGHOMON TEHLERIAN, BECAUSE IT DOES NOTING TO FURTHER POLITICS? o, right, the ordinary, patriotic Armenians don't care for politics, the statute is just a small sign of respect for the Armenian community in the US, and something ordinary armenians to be proud of. It doesn't matter that it doesn't further politics. Everytime i visit, every time parents visit with their children and tell them about this great hero, and instill in their hearts patriotism, that helps keep them Armenian and thus serves an important function.

Nevertheless, general Andarnik's statue ultimately belongs in Armenia - not in Russia, not anywhere else.

That's not for you to say. Once you live in and become a citizen of Russia, then you will have any right to voice any opinion on the matter whatsoever. If your goal is the demolishments of statues in honor of Armenian heroes, however, it is your right (as a US citizen) to start a campaign to take down the one devoted to Soghomon Tehlerian in Fresno.

The Armenian community should have obtained permission before putting up the statute, that goes without saying, but the arguements that "author" makes, such as "Why should we Armenians expect Russian officials to sabotage their dealings with Turk over a statue that ultimately belongs in Armenia."

That is a silly and immature argument for someone who claims to have half a brain to make. Armenians in Russia are citizens in that country and have cultural rights. That was not a political issue between russia and Armenia, but an internal domestic issue regarding Russian citizens. The fact that Armenians have a monument to Soghomon Tehlerian in Fresno DOESN'T get in the way of strategic alliance between Turkey and the US It is the right of Armenians as citizens of the US to have monument, and Turkey has no right nor business interferring in the rights and lives of American citizens of Armenian origin.

It would have been nice to have one of our famous generals' statue proudly displayed in Russia. Perhaps one day such a thing will become a reality.

One day came sooner than our 'friend' could have imagined. The statute is proudly erected in Adler, Russia.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

From the information available there are two possibilities why this statue was not allowed to stay where it was erected.

Either ( as explained by the officials ) no planning procedure were followed and therefore the official decision was “justified”, OR
there was political pressure from Turkey not to allow this statue to remain.

Only way forward is to call the Russian Authorities bluff and put in an application for a statue and see if they drag their feet.

If permission is granted we get the statue, better late than never.
If we do not get a permission then we know why.
Then time for grass root campaign and pressure on the authorities.

[Artsakh]

Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

At one time, the "author" of that blog was blindly supporting the ARF. Now he has turned to talking against "nationalists" and blindly supporting the Russian Federation no matter what she may do....very strange personality indeed...

[Lucin]

Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

At one time, the "author" of that blog was blindly supporting the ARF. Now he has turned to talking against "nationalists" and blindly supporting the Russian Federation no matter what she may do....very strange personality indeed...

People are not stuck in the same opinions/beliefs till the end of their lives, especially when it comes to volatile geopolitical issues... sometimes it's the circumstances that dictate you to have a change of mind.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

People are not stuck in the same opinions/beliefs till the end of their lives, especially when it comes to volatile geopolitical issues... sometimes it's the circumstances that dictate you to have a change of mind.

That's very true.
Specially when it applies to an individual.
I certainly have changed my mind over time based on realisation of my misjudgements, maturity, life experience etc.

Things are slightly different when one has an audience and therefore a “loyal” following.
This following has been built over time based on arguments presented .

What should the audience do, walk away or taken in with the new arguments.
How can he build another “loyal” audience if he has the proviso “I have every right to change my mind depending on circumstances”.

Not sure how such a blog can have credibility and taken seriously.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

What "excellent points" does he make? Was he expecting ordinary, patriotic Armenians, who don't care for politics, to be happy? Naturally ordinary Armenians would be upset over taking the statue down in Sochi, as every Armenian should be.

as for the argument, " political influence is attained not by erecting monuments here and there and felling good about it but by making deals behind closed doors!", that's not very well thought out. The Armenian community is NOT seeking to "attain political influence through erecting monuments." The statute is to a small, simply, and symbolic sign of honor for the Armenian community, and it is their right as citizens of russia to seek it. DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DISMANTLE THE MONUMENT TO SOGHOMON TEHLERIAN, BECAUSE IT DOES NOTING TO FURTHER POLITICS? o, right, the ordinary, patriotic Armenians don't care for politics, the statute is just a small sign of respect for the Armenian community in the US, and something ordinary armenians to be proud of. It doesn't matter that it doesn't further politics. Everytime i visit, every time parents visit with their children and tell them about this great hero, and instill in their hearts patriotism, that helps keep them Armenian and thus serves an important function.



That's not for you to say. Once you live in and become a citizen of Russia, then you will have any right to voice any opinion on the matter whatsoever. If your goal is the demolishments of statues in honor of Armenian heroes, however, it is your right (as a US citizen) to start a campaign to take down the one devoted to Soghomon Tehlerian in Fresno.

The Armenian community should have obtained permission before putting up the statute, that goes without saying, but the arguements that "author" makes, such as "Why should we Armenians expect Russian officials to sabotage their dealings with Turk over a statue that ultimately belongs in Armenia."

That is a silly and immature argument for someone who claims to have half a brain to make. Armenians in Russia are citizens in that country and have cultural rights. That was not a political issue between russia and Armenia, but an internal domestic issue regarding Russian citizens. The fact that Armenians have a monument to Soghomon Tehlerian in Fresno DOESN'T get in the way of strategic alliance between Turkey and the US It is the right of Armenians as citizens of the US to have monument, and Turkey has no right nor business interferring in the rights and lives of American citizens of Armenian origin.



One day came sooner than our 'friend' could have imagined. The statute is proudly erected in Adler, Russia.

You missed the points again. Russia has multi billion dollar economic ties with turkey, yet they have made it very clear to the turks to keep their paws off Armenia. I'd rather the turks pressure the Russians into not having such statues than to pressure them to not supply Armenia with low cost or free weaponry or give it near unconditional support in the international arena. And the flip side, how much worse would it be if Russia were to allow statues but trade its strong relations with Armenia for better relations with ankara? At the end of the day, one is sentimental the other is geopolitical and can make or break Armenia.

As for the US comparisons, Washington does the exact opposite. They allow Armenians to put up whatever sentimental statues and monuments that they wish, but they do not recognize the Genocide, unlike Russia, and they have strategic military ties with the turks.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

You missed the points again. Russia has multi billion dollar economic ties with turkey, yet they have made it very clear to the turks to keep their paws off Armenia. I'd rather the turks pressure the Russians into not having such statues than to pressure them to not supply Armenia with low cost or free weaponry or give it near unconditional support in the international arena. At the end of the day, one is sentimental the other is geopolitically and can make or break Armenia.

Yes I agree, we shouldn't get to caught up in such symbolic moves, and concentrate on the fact that our strategic ties are warm with Russia, and Turkey is not affecting them. Russians may take down a statue for the Turks, but that's like throwing a bone to a dog, important thing is our strategic relations are intact (and I highly doubt Russians would betray us like that for Turks).

[Artsakh]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

You missed the points again. Russia has multi billion dollar economic ties with turkey, yet they have made it very clear to the turks to keep their paws off Armenia.

No, I didn't miss any points. And the last I checked, the Armenian government, the only entity capable of actually changing policies towards Russia, did not call for an emergency meeting regarding Russia not allowing a statute to be put up in Sochi. That ordinary Armenians get upset about that does not change official Yerevan's foreign policy, and it was quite stupid of that "blog" to even exaggerate the seriousness of not allowing a statute that was put up without any approval (and therefore illegally). That "blog" is blaming ordinary armenians for getting upset. Well, I for one am happy they got upset. It was only natural for them to get upset. In fact, if they didn't get upset, that would be cause for worry.

The second point is that neither Turkey nor Russia would allow a statute to get in the way of their trade and business dealings. Therefore, by allowing a Statue RUssia would not risk business dealings with Turkey.

If you're not forgetting, the Armenian community in Iran was going to show an Armenian Genocide movie and Turkey also threatened Iran to not allow it to be shown. That threat didn't work and the movie was allowed to be shown and, in case you didn't know, trade between Iran and turkey is at an all time high, more than tripled since last year.

I'd rather the turks pressure the Russians into not having such statues than to pressure them to not supply Armenia with low cost or free weaponry or give it near unconditional support in the international arena.

Those two are not interrelated and have nothing to do with Russian policy toward Armenia. It's quite a stupid connection to make.

As for the US comparisons, Washington does the exact opposite. They allow Armenians to put up whatever sentimental statues and monuments that they wish, but they do not recognize the Genocide, unlike Russia, and they have strategic military ties with the turks.

You're making it as if there's an either/or proposition in policies towards treatment of Armenia/Armenians. No, Washington does not do the exact opposite. In fact, that Armenian-Armenians put up a moument to Soghomon Tehlerian has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH ARMENIA. As American citizens, the Armenian community thought it was important to have the statue and they pursued it through legal means and got it up. This is internal, domestic, logal matters, and had NOTHING whatsoever to do with US dealings with the Turks nor its policy towards Armenia.

[Artsakh]

Re: Armenian hero’s monument opened in Sochi

Bottom Line: The statute to General Andranik is a community issue. If the Russian-Armenian community feels strongly enough that it is very important for their community to have such a statue, it is their right to pursue and fight for it, within the means of the laws.

[Artsakh]

Re: Armenian hero�s monument opened in Sochi

Yes I agree, we shouldn't get to caught up in such symbolic moves, and concentrate on the fact that our strategic ties are warm with Russia, and Turkey is not affecting them. Russians may take down a statue for the Turks, but that's like throwing a bone to a dog, important thing is our strategic relations are intact (and I highly doubt Russians would betray us like that for Turks).

Wrong! By propogating Armenian-ness, Armenian culture, and Armenian hertiage, you are helping serve Armenian interets, the interest of keeping Armenian communities from assimilating and keeping them Armenians, Armenians who someday may contribute greatly to their homeland. It is through such small, "symbolic" ways that you further that "political agenda" and instill patriotic spirit in diasporan Armenians. Otherwise, they would just assimilate quickly and become whatever and not care for Armenianness or the homeland.

At the same time, by you being "policially correct", that is what does NOTING TO FURTHER ANY AGENDA. are you an official in yerevan who has any say over foreign policy strategies? NO! of course not! be politically correct all you want, praise the russians all you want to the point of lessening Armenia, what does that change "on the ground"???? That is what does NOT change anything! youre no diplomat capable of effecting any change in any policy.