Armenia and the information war

[arakeretzig]

Re: Armenia and the information war

it all boils down to, do you want to be America's biatch, or Russia's biatch? You're going to be fscked in the ass anyway, might as well enjoy it while being fscked. Armenia has made its choice.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenia and the information war

I think you have a sick man’s mentality (politically).
You do not understand that Armenian people and Armenian state have to have the same course.
That is called democracy.

I doubt you understand or believe in democracy.
Your idiotic statements have the aim of discrediting Armenian-Russian strategic partnership.

Probably you are CIA plant working towards that aim.

Additionally Armenia’s political issue is not about finding a strategic partner
since this has already been established as a long term project through the relevant security and other treaties.

Armenia’s political issues are poor governance, unfair distribution of national wealth, corruption – financial, legal etc, lack of economic growth etc.

Politicians use diversionary tactics to focus elseware and find excuses for not tackling the above.

I certainly do not believe in democracy because of the human nature. It is impossible to say that the Armenian state and the Armenian people have to have the same course, as the Armenian people are divided into many different groups with different ideologies, actually I find it pretty sick and naive that you think like that way.

The democracy we read about in theory does not, and will not exist in reality. Speaking on general issues as you do now, I am a supporter of a free-economy, which in my opinion is the most important thing people want.

Armenia's political issue is not about finding a strategic partner it certainly isn't, it's about keeping (and expanding) the strategic partner. The strategic partner could have been lost in 2008, as could our newly fledged independent state together with Artsakh. I think it is pretty sick of you not understanding how close to a total catastrophy we were.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenia and the information war

it all boils down to, do you want to be America's biatch, or Russia's biatch? You're going to be fscked in the ass anyway, might as well enjoy it while being fscked. Armenia has made its choice.

Yes, we are indeed getting very xxxxed. Our borders being protected against Turkey, independent Armenia still continuing to exist, receiving billions of dollars of weapons for free, receiving billions of dollars of investment as nobody else would invest, being able to obtain top jobs in the military and political life of the aforementioned country. I can't believe what a bad deal we have! It is the United States of America who would really xxxx Armenia, not the Russian Federation. Comparing both is just impossible.

It's like saying Israel has to choose between being xxxxed by America, or by Iran. No, it's the Israelis who are doing the xxxxing, as they understand that expanding the strategic relationship, profiting from it, and exploiting it is more beneficial for them, instead of "not being too dependent on America" and severing ties and actually not being dependent on anyone and not receiving substantial aid of anyone and then being wiped out of the mapped because some people wanted to be "independent in theory".

Even though my point is very easy, it is, unfortunately, almost impossible to understand for most of the people.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenia and the information war

I appreciate what you are trying to do Tigranakert. Most diasporan armenians indeed are brainwashed because they have been told all their lives that democracy is some kind of miracle drug that will solve all your problems regardless of what the problems are. Iondontsi is a perfect example of just this. To combat the western brainwashing which includes a heavty dose dashnak hairy chest pounding it is important that armenians are made aware of the facts on the ground regarding Armenia. I think pointing out the facts is very important in a time where many armenians seem to either lose track of them or are distracted by false opinions and hopes. I do not blame people for being misguided because there are plenty of forces conspiring to misguide armenians but i do blame many for being stubbornly closed minded and refusing to see the world the way it really is especially when people like me and tigranakert are trying so hard to point out simply what should be obvious to all armenians.

[Mos]

Re: Armenia and the information war

The word 'democracy' has been over used and become over the last decade a synonym for being an ally of the US. Of course when it comes to what democracy really is - there are definite positive elements that make a state better and stronger. However, given our situation, what I believe is most important at this point for Armenia is our security. For this we need a government that is nationalistic and where its ties to oligarhcs are minimal. In my view, Serzh Sargsyan has been a great president for Armenia, probably the best so far, of course there are some issues that I think he should have not done (Turkey protocols) but in all he has done a good job, and in Armenia there is freedom of thought, media has its freedoms, and in all a civil society as opposed to Azerbaijan where if you dare to say something that is not praising the great leader you get arrested. Of course, we need to be careful of some of the cultural elements that can degrade a society such as multiculturalism or standing against family values.

I also commend our government's foreign policy which is a multi-platform one. How many countries can boast having good relations with Iran, Russia, EU, and US? We shouldn't fall in the black and white anti-West or anti-East. Russia remains our main military ally of course, but we also have warm relations with Iran, close political cooperation with EU, and friendly ties with US. Of course I have more suspicion of US and its intentions. It is important for us however that Iran remains tense with Azerbaijan, because warm relations between Azerbaijan and Iran could be rather devastating for us.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenia and the information war

I appreciate what you are trying to do Tigranakert. Most diasporan armenians indeed are brainwashed because they have been told all their lives that democracy is some kind of miracle drug that will solve all your problems regardless of what the problems are. Iondontsi is a perfect example of just this. To combat the western brainwashing which includes a heavty dose dashnak hairy chest pounding it is important that armenians are made aware of the facts on the ground regarding Armenia. I think pointing out the facts is very important in a time where many armenians seem to either lose track of them or are distracted by false opinions and hopes. I do not blame people for being misguided because there are plenty of forces conspiring to misguide armenians but i do blame many for being stubbornly closed minded and refusing to see the world the way it really is especially when people like me and tigranakert are trying so hard to point out simply what should be obvious to all armenians.

kakan

I do not need any lessons from somebody who only recently was arguing like mad
that we should give back Kharabagh, as to what type of place Armenia should be.

You always ( and still) articulate like the lapdog of the west.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenia and the information war

I certainly do not believe in democracy because of the human nature. It is impossible to say that the Armenian state and the Armenian people have to have the same course, as the Armenian people are divided into many different groups with different ideologies, actually I find it pretty sick and naive that you think like that way.

The democracy we read about in theory does not, and will not exist in reality. Speaking on general issues as you do now, I am a supporter of a free-economy, which in my opinion is the most important thing people want.

Armenia's political issue is not about finding a strategic partner it certainly isn't, it's about keeping (and expanding) the strategic partner. The strategic partner could have been lost in 2008, as could our newly fledged independent state together with Artsakh. I think it is pretty sick of you not understanding how close to a total catastrophy we were.

Armenia is not only a place. It is a country with people.
I want those (my) people a better place to live and thrive in.
I do not want them to migrate to foreign lands and become political theoreticians like you (ala Pol Pot).

Who is to say who has to be taken out (as you say) because his/her thinking does not quite fit.
Who is to say who has to leave Armenia because it will help some Bankers or Politicians.
Who is to say which businessman is allowed to succeed because he receives patronage from “high ranking officials.
Who is to say which 5-10% of the people hold 90% of the countries wealth.


There is no and cannot be any question as to which sphere of influence Armenia belongs to.
Very very long term treaties have been signed and sealed.
In fact most of us will be dead before those treaties are reconsidered/renegotiated.
Therefore any “discussion” on the issue of Russian influence in Armenia is nothing but hot air initiated by ignorant idiots, I might add like yourself.


Armenia successfully established (and is improving) its security through treaties, army and material .
Armenia has to enter next phase of improvements, its peoples lot, because if it does not there will be a backlash something we as a nation cannot afford.
This does not imply undermining any of our strategic commitments, if anything makes us more reliable partners.

Look at the situation with Greece, partner in the EU, is it more reliable partner with its problems?
Is that the type of partner we want to be?

[Federate]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Dmitry Medvedev: Ilham Aliyev and Serzh Sargsyan Get Along Well

BAKU. October 21, 2011: Ilham Aliyev and Serzh Sargsyan get along quite well, as well as their entourage. They speak Armenian with each other and then switch to Azerbaijani. This sensational statement was made by the Russian President Dmitry Medvedev during a meeting with students at the Moscow State University on Thursday. Answering a question from an Armenian student on the efforts to resolve the Garabagh conflict, Medvedev said the following: "I often meet the president of Azerbaijan and the president of Armenia. And it is surprising that the entourage of both presidents, Aliyev and Sarkisyan, get along quite well with each other and easily switch from Azerbaijani to Armenian and from Armenian to Azeri. It happens in my presence.

But, I hope, that Serzh Azatovich and Ilham Heydaroglu will not be offended if I say that they get on well. When we sit together at the table, they communicate very well.

But there are real difficulties: There is history, there is different understanding of different legal structures and there is different set of interests. Russia will certainly help in resolving the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. You probably know, I have done a lot to get these presidents to meet and discuss this topic. This work will continue. But I can say one simple thing: the resolution of this conflict is very complicated, but I am absolutely sure, that this problem can be resolved depending on the good will of the two peoples and the two presidents. If they listen to each other, hear each other and slightly move toward each other, to find compromises, everything will be all right. I am absolutely sure of it. This is just one of the few frozen conflicts in the former Soviet Union, and even in Europe as a whole, which, in my opinion, can be solved," said Medvedev (Turan).

http://azerireport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3000&Itemid=53

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenia and the information war

Armenia is not only a place. It is a country with people.
I want those (my) people a better place to live and thrive in.
I do not want them to migrate to foreign lands and become political theoreticians like you (ala Pol Pot).

Who is to say who has to be taken out (as you say) because his/her thinking does not quite fit.
Who is to say who has to leave Armenia because it will help some Bankers or Politicians.
Who is to say which businessman is allowed to succeed because he receives patronage from “high ranking officials.
Who is to say which 5-10% of the people hold 90% of the countries wealth.

Thank you for your knowledge, I did not know Armenia was actually a country where people live, where birds fly, where there are cars, streets, where there are trees. You enlightened me.

It's a bit vague discussing with you, you do not even respond to my comments, but rant about things we did not even discuss. Where did I mention that people have to leave Armenia because of bankers or politicians, where did I mention which businessman is allowed to succeed, where did I say 5 to 10% of the people should hold all the wealth, in all, WHAT THE xxxx ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Have you been using drugs or something?

There is no and cannot be any question as to which sphere of influence Armenia belongs to.
Very very long term treaties have been signed and sealed.
In fact most of us will be dead before those treaties are reconsidered/renegotiated.
Therefore any “discussion” on the issue of Russian influence in Armenia is nothing but hot air initiated by ignorant idiots, I might add like yourself.

Armenia successfully established (and is improving) its security through treaties, army and material .
Armenia has to enter next phase of improvements, its peoples lot, because if it does not there will be a backlash something we as a nation cannot afford.
This does not imply undermining any of our strategic commitments, if anything makes us more reliable partners.

Look at the situation with Greece, partner in the EU, is it more reliable partner with its problems?
Is that the type of partner we want to be?

First of all, if I am not mistaken, these treaties were signed because of people with a healthy knowledge and political foresight. If it were not for those people like Serge Sarkisyan, we would have a totally different situation. Furthermore, I want to share with you that the things we are discussing here can not be signed in any treaty. If it were so easy, politicians would not even exist, treaties would do all the work, but unfortunately, treaties are not living beings, they are subject to the people in charge. I don't even want to speak about what would happen if Levon Ter-Petrosyan came to power, one or two treaties would not mean that his ideology and political decision making wouldn't be different.

You are just ranting and ranting. Your response to this post will probably also be something very different. Not only are you a naive believer in democracy, but also a naive dreamer who thinks that treaties are and end in itself.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenia and the information war

kakan

I do not need any lessons from somebody who only recently was arguing like mad
that we should give back Kharabagh, as to what type of place Armenia should be.

You always ( and still) articulate like the lapdog of the west.

I think it says a lot that at least, he chose his name to be "Haykakan", but you prefered "Londonatsi", who is the lapdock of the West now?

Did I also mention this is a forum? He gives his opinion, you give yours. He takes time to respond to your comment, so should you. But I have noticed that you don't, and you also don't respond to the points I make, it's only me responding to the points you make, unfortunately.