Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[HyeFighter2]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Serzh and Aliev looks like are in good relations, i remember when Medvedev say that when Aliev ans Serzh meet eachother in russia they always talk on azeri with each other,

[TomServo]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Serzh and Aliev looks like are in good relations

Kindred spirits...

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenia ready to leave two districts of Nagorno-Karabakh

http://vestnikkavkaza.net/news/politics/48088.html

28 November 2013 - 2:27pm

Armenia is ready to leave two occupied districts of Azerbaijan, Sabah reports today.
Turkey prepared a new road map for the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict for the upcoming visit of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu to Washington and Moscow. Turkey wants Armenia to express a readiness to leave the districts officially. Davutoglu will take part in the BSEC summit in Yerevan if Armenia makes a corresponding statement.
Armenia in far behind Azerbaijan in terms of economic development, and will have to make concessions, the paper says. Withdrawal from two out of seven occupied areas will give way to a normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations.

Armenia is ready to leave two occupied districts of Azerbaijan, Sabah reports today.

Turkey prepared a new road map for the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict for the upcoming visit of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu to Washington and Moscow. Turkey wants Armenia to express a readiness to leave the districts officially. Davutoglu will take part in the BSEC summit in Yerevan if Armenia makes a corresponding statement.

Armenia in far behind Azerbaijan in terms of economic development, and will have to make concessions, the paper says. Withdrawal from two out of seven occupied areas will give way to a normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations.





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[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

A somewhat encouraging meeting in Vienna

http://vestnikkavkaza.net/analysis/politics/47807.html

21 November 2013 - 10:20am

By Victoria Panfilova, an NG commentator, exclusively for Vestnik Kavkaza

The long-awaited talks of Azerbaijani and Armenian Presidents Ilham Aliyev and Serzh Sargsyan have happened in Vienna. The Nagorno-Karabakh peace process at that stage was so hopeless that readiness for a new meeting was the biggest hope of all experts. Aliyev and Sargsyan announced a readiness to intensify contacts. Co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group mediating in the process said that they wanted to boost the dialogue.

The negotiations between the Azerbaijani and Armenian leaders were behind closed doors. The subjects of their talks remain a mystery. Information will be published in doses later. The situation around Nagorno-Karabakh is complicated. The sides are on contrary positions and rapprochement fails. There is a high level of distrust between the Azerbaijani and Armenian societies. It would be unwise to start or renew (as in the 1990s) the process selectively. Meetings of experts, political analysts and intellectuals have little practical value in resolving the conflict.

Azerbaijan insists that words and declarations should finally gain a practical value. In other words, Armenia must leave Azerbaijani districts around Nagorno-Karabakh and let the refugees return. This is the first step Baku insists on.

The plan of Azerbaijan is the least thing Armenia would want to realize. It is fine with returning Azerbaijan control over five out of seven districts of the security belt around Nagorno-Karabakh. The two other districts are self-proclaimed republics of special strategic value. The Lachin District helps maintain transportation links with Armenia. The Kalbajar District is the water source of Karabakh. Handing over the districts to Azerbaijan would make the situation more risky for Armenia.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu proposed Armenia start the transfer of the districts to Azerbaijan in exchange for an opening of the Turkish-Armenian border, closed for the sake of solidarity between Ankara and Baku. Yerevan reminded about the differentiation of Armenian-Turkish and Armenian-Azerbaijani relations. So what is the point in Aliyev and Sargsyan’s readiness to intensify the dialogue if they refuse to leave their positions?

The sides are negotiating cease-fire on the line of contact and an agreement to move away snipers, sabotage groups and other units. They have no practical value at the contact line in any aspect. They have no impact on the alignment of forces. Their actions cause losses on both sides of the line. This only provokes exasperation, hatred and hunger for revenge. It will hardly destabilize the situation, should any one really want to. Besides, high-ranking officials declare peaceful intentions, so disrupting the situation of no interest to either side. And, of course, exchange of prisoners.

Armenia is starting to transfer control over at least one, strategically least valuable, district to Azerbaijan. In return, Azerbaijan agrees to turn a blind eye on exploitation of the Stepanakert Airport. Practically, idleness of the airport is very pointless. Azerbaijan clearly understands that people willing to visit Karabakh do it anyway. However, seeing a ready, yet non-operating, airport gives nothing but a sense of sorrow to people entering the self-proclaimed republic. Thus, it is a blow to the image of Azerbaijan on the international arena. Should any attempts to use non-civil transportation at the airport be made, they would be prevented by closing it down again. Control is not hard to achieve. Space satellites can even see car plates, not to mention jets. There might be other means of control.

Both sides are concerned about the condition of one of the local water reservoirs. There are no visible reasons for them to neglect cooperation in solving that problem.

[Mher]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Armenia ready to leave two districts of Nagorno-Karabakh

http://vestnikkavkaza.net/news/politics/48088.html

28 November 2013 - 2:27pm

Armenia is ready to leave two occupied districts of Azerbaijan, Sabah reports today.
Turkey prepared a new road map for the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict for the upcoming visit of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu to Washington and Moscow. Turkey wants Armenia to express a readiness to leave the districts officially. Davutoglu will take part in the BSEC summit in Yerevan if Armenia makes a corresponding statement.
Armenia in far behind Azerbaijan in terms of economic development, and will have to make concessions, the paper says. Withdrawal from two out of seven occupied areas will give way to a normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations.

Armenia is ready to leave two occupied districts of Azerbaijan, Sabah reports today.

Turkey prepared a new road map for the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict for the upcoming visit of Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu to Washington and Moscow. Turkey wants Armenia to express a readiness to leave the districts officially. Davutoglu will take part in the BSEC summit in Yerevan if Armenia makes a corresponding statement.

Armenia in far behind Azerbaijan in terms of economic development, and will have to make concessions, the paper says. Withdrawal from two out of seven occupied areas will give way to a normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations.


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what does 2/7 refer to? What areas? The 7 districts(+stepanakert) of Artsakh?

http://nagornykarabakh.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/nkr_real_large.jpg

or seven of their imaginary districts?

http://azerbaijan24.com/images/albums/azerbaijan%20map/map/1-Map-Azerbaijan-1991-2009.jpg

Realistically, as much as I hate saying it, I would be for giving up some of the outside territories. After all they are hardly populated. What is the point of having barren lands. Especially when the country is bleeding population, and we have a low reproduction rate.

However, the only way I would be for that if:
Armenia was to hold on to the most/all of Qashatagh district
No Toork is allowed to set foot in Artsakh
We don't play any of this withdrawal, then return of refugees, then maybe potential self determination vote bull
and Azerbaijan and the international players were to recognize Artsakh as a precondition, accepting Artsakh's independence, giving and honoring all privileges that come with it being a sovereign nation

Seeing how that's not gonna happen
Turkey can go back to masturbating to Ataturks picture
And both the Turkish and Armenian govt know well from LTP what even the discussion of giving up lands to Toorks will unleash

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

what does 2/7 refer to? What areas? The 7 districts(+stepanakert) of Artsakh?

http://nagornykarabakh.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/nkr_real_large.jpg

or seven of their imaginary districts?

http://azerbaijan24.com/images/albums/azerbaijan%20map/map/1-Map-Azerbaijan-1991-2009.jpg

Realistically, as much as I hate saying it, I would be for giving up some of the outside territories. After all they are hardly populated. What is the point of having barren lands. Especially when the country is bleeding population, and we have a low reproduction rate.

However, the only way I would be for that if:
Armenia was to hold on to the most/all of Qashatagh district
No Toork is allowed to set foot in Artsakh
We don't play any of this withdrawal, then return of refugees, then maybe potential self determination vote bull
and Azerbaijan and the international players were to recognize Artsakh as a precondition, accepting Artsakh's independence, giving and honoring all privileges that come with it being a sovereign nation

Seeing how that's not gonna happen
Turkey can go back to masturbating to Ataturks picture
And both the Turkish and Armenian govt know well from LTP what even the discussion of giving up lands to Toorks will unleash

It is being referred to as a road plan.
A road is not an event.
It is a process. It leads us somewhere.

Since the the fiasco of Football-diplomacy my estimation of Serge Sarkisyan is that he is clumsy politician.
Everything he has done since then, he comes across as wooden.

He thinks ( rather takes advantage of the constitution) to solely decide the future of Armenia and the Armenian nation singlehandedly.

He does not feel answerable to the people, example, he did not defend his previous administration record during the election campaign
and was satisfied by giving speeches about a "strong Armenia".

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[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Realistically, as much as I hate saying it,

I would be for giving up some of the outside territories.

After all they are hardly populated. What is the point of having barren lands.

Especially when the country is bleeding population, and we have a low reproduction rate.

Strange criteria for giving away land.

Why doesn't the USA give up Alaska, mostly barren land.
Why doesn’t Russia give up Siberia, mostly barren land.
The list can be expanded to many other countries.

Bleeding population should be a strategic concern and be addressed accordingly.
It should not be “we are smaller nation now so we do not need so much land” attitude.

Are you suggesting by giving those lands our reproduction rate will increase.
Or low reproduction rate is not a strategic issue for the nation ( and government) and nothing to do with giving away land.

PS. Only those who lost the war have to contend with giving up land.
I did not say we won the war.

[HyeFighter2]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

i dont believe that we will do it, if we do it than i just will be sure that serj is not armenian

[Chubs]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

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[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

All the lands under our control are of strategic importance. Giving some outlying ones up such as Aghdam (buffer from the east) and Fizuli (buffer from the southeast) only weaken our borders and could lead to an invasion by Azerbaijan. They were taken because NKR is vulnerable without them. The trade off to such a deal, which I am opposed to, must be complete capitulation of Baku of the rest of the territories.

I don't know about anyone else but I much prefer our border with Iran be three times its current de jure size at Syunik. That piece of land is so fragile and it's puzzling that our authorities have not been talking about this and have not been able to put the larger Iranian border to proper use. Those Artsakh territories bordering Iran are the final nail in the Pan-Turk coffin because it creates huge distance between the closest Azeri proper territory with Nakhichevan and removing that nail will be the worst strategic mistake in the short history of the Republic of Armenia.