Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Bigdikran]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

my point of view: i always think of 10,20 years ahead, all this argument is invalid, unless your on the ground and your fighting ( maybe some of you are, sorry i dont know)
Every time when there is a battle we will win it, but eventually sooner or later we gonna loose the war, Y?
Our population is 3 million, (diaspora is diaspora and we barely take advantage from it ) and based on statistics the number will be around 2.5 million in the next 20-30 years, meanwhile our neighbors one is 85 million (Turkey) and will be 120 in the next 30 40 years, and Azerbaijan is 10 million, will be million.
Imagine if Armenia's population was 15-25 million what would have changed we had a war situation (military, economically, as a political center)
So the Diaspora, the government, the Armenian think tankers should come up with the formula how to increase Armenias population and trust me all our problems will fade away!

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Again, I'm not ====
If tunnels are useless in trying to defend territory, why would the South Korean's use them?

I'm not aware of detail of situation in South Korea.
Can't say.

The place you are talking in Talish, the tunnel must have been 500 m long, to connect first and second lines, in rocky + inclided terrain.
Do you imagine what kind of workforce would you need for a tunnel?
You have at leat 1000 such points along NKR border.....

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Yavrig, vor aneret Madaghisitz a, mi had hartz dur, togh dan aratche nayi, kani lech a dessel ir atchkov?

To end the tunnel story, just one question: where should the entry and exit of each tunnel be exactly?
How long and how deep do you imagine it?
Whit what kind of manpower are we supposed to dig them?
(we have nor the Viet manpower, nor smooth soil. Most our terrain is rocky 1 or 2 meter deep.... )

And if it is to hide from artillery shelling, normally the blindage is supposed to do that job. What needs to be done is use iron and beton in big quatities, like the germans did when building bunkers.

That makes sense, bur tunnels, certainly not.

We have had years to build up the defensive line. It would be impossible to build a system in a few months but if we had years it could be done. Even if the soil is rocky I'm not suggesting to use pickaxes and shovels, dedicated machinery and explosives can tunnel through straight rock. Tunnels are built in mountains all the time.
Where should the entry and exit of each tunnel be? Lol stop trolling. Who am I to say.
How long and how deep. I'm not an expert but just because I can't answer your question doesn't make you right.

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm not aware of detail of situation in South Korea.
Can't say.

The place you are talking in Talish, the tunnel must have been 500 m long, to connect first and second lines, in rocky + inclided terrain.
Do you imagine what kind of workforce would you need for a tunnel?
You have at leat 1000 such points along NKR border.....

The tunnels didn't have to be 500 meters long. Just long enough for our soldiers to have emerged from a point where they could have fallen back to the 2nd line out of sight. Then they could have used that same tunnel to sneak back in. This could only happen if the azeri's never discover the tunnel. And that's a big if.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We have had years to build up the defensive line. It would be impossible to build a system in a few months but if we had years it could be done. Even if the soil is rocky I'm not suggesting to use pickaxes and shovels, dedicated machinery and explosives can tunnel through straight rock. Tunnels are built in mountains all the time.
Where should the entry and exit of each tunnel be? Lol stop trolling. Who am I to say.
How long and how deep. I'm not an expert but just because I can't answer your question doesn't make you right.

Ok, let's put it this way.
Independent Armenia needed state budget funds for 5 years, to end building Vorotan-Ketchud tunel's 1 Km (total 18 Km , 17 build in soviet era).
Of course quality and size are much larger... bur nevertheless, since you are talking of montain tunnels...
You have 1000 strong positions to connect with second lines.
Average distance is at least 300-500 m, shortest distance
That makes 300-500 Km in theory.

Evidently you just can't afford it.

Since you are on the defensive, and have no way to decide where the enemy will attack, how do you decide where, among the 1000 strongpoints, you will dig your tunnel.
How many would you afford.
If it is 10, or 15, given the teknika necessary, and their uav's, don't you think they will be informed ?
Do you think they will attack just at the few points you built tunnels?

[ASALA2116]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ay dgha, mi had klukhed tap dur, hamaret tchntchi, et herakhosed ver gal, Madaghis zanki, esh esh turss dalutz aratch.

Give me a call and don't hang up next time. Say hello talk to me. Mi vakhnar , indzi zange. Madaghis zankem? Indzi tiv door he zankem. Vakhgod chem.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Give me a call and don't hang up next time. Say hello talk to me. Mi vakhnar , indzi zange. Madaghis zankem? Indzi tiv door he zankem. Vakhgod chem.

Ba Hoooooooooooooooooooo

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This ASALA dude needs to take some chill pill...

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm not aware of detail of situation in South Korea.
Can't say.

The place you are talking in Talish, the tunnel must have been 500 m long, to connect first and second lines, in rocky + inclided terrain.
Do you imagine what kind of workforce would you need for a tunnel?
You have at leat 1000 such points along NKR border.....

Do you remember Arpa-Sevan Water carying tunnel/ How it was built?
It is not very wide, maybe 2-3 meter Dia. It took so many years and enourmous resources. Or metro in yerevan. Again very hard to dig.
Unlike Syria, or other place, our soil is just about most dencely packet with boulders in the world.
Imagine that we build tunnels on contact line neverthless... After sinking so much resources in it, those tunnels will become a big focal strategic points, which will be relatively easy to overcome. I mean, they dont have to kill every body in it. Just azeris flank those and move ahead and tunnels will be in their rear. The terrain open and since our army cannot get to them, azeris have opportunity to kill lot of our trapped soldiers and score big. Our morale will be killed.
Like in Syria, Syrian army goes around over tunnels easily and eventually kills rebels inside. Its just we cannot fight like Syrian rebels or Vietnameeze Vietcong. Because if we give same number of losses as theese two, the war will be over for us. We will loose.

[gokorik]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Ok, let's put it this way.
Independent Armenia needed state budget funds for 5 years, to end building Vorotan-Ketchud tunel's 1 Km (total 18 Km , 17 build in soviet era).
Of course quality and size are much larger... bur nevertheless, since you are talking of montain tunnels...
You have 1000 strong positions to connect with second lines.
Average distance is at least 300-500 m, shortest distance
That makes 300-500 Km in theory.

Evidently you just can't afford it.

Since you are on the defensive, and have no way to decide where the enemy will attack, how do you decide where, among the 1000 strongpoints, you will dig your tunnel.
How many would you afford.
If it is 10, or 15, given the teknika necessary, and their uav's, don't you think they will be informed ?
Do you think they will attack just at the few points you built tunnels?

I'm not a advocating we build km's worth of tunnels in straight rock. My reason for bringing up tunneling in rock is if you can tunnel in rock, you can tunnel in rocky soil. Yes money is a huge issue, but I'm not talking about 100's of kms of tunnels. Short tunnels in the 100-200 meter category on the front line and deeper in out territory much more complicated systems but focused on specific areas. You keep assuming I'm talking about an insane system spanning from one edge of Artsakh to the other.