Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Can anyone identify this AK variant? Looks like a modded ak-74m or an ak-12 or an as-300(made by aspar arms)

http://arms.am/index.php/our-production

[HajiHabibli]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Haykakan Jan military take over is not comparable to political chaos which can happen if country continues deteriorating in the hands of current political entities. This continuation may lead to the worst scenario regarding our neighbors and us.
Military take over may on the contrary, strengthen our defenses and national unity.
I know, any putsch is a hard to swallow pill. But that may become the only choice.
Armenia has 4 billion debt and growing. There may be a moment the country will become insolvent and austerity imposed by our creditors. That could lead to total collapse and flight out of Armenia.

Hakob, can you name one instance where a military take over ended well in any country? I am seriously asking because every example I can think things end up as bad or worse than they were.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Hakob, can you name one instance where a military take over ended well in any country? I am seriously asking because every example I can think things end up as bad or worse than they were.

You are right that majority of coups have had dictators establishing their power. Military's involvements were in form of supporting such coups, sometimes having split and opposite allegiances.
But there are fiew in which military took power and responsibility in restoring order and ensuring survival of country.
Here are some examples.
Number one is our neigbour turkey. For over 70 years the military has stepped in restoring order several times after political and fractional chaos has threatened country, since ataturk turned tables for a looser country that would otherwise dissolve and allmost dissapear. ( and by the way Erdogan's push to power consolidation started with purging military and ensuring it cannot interfere in islamising the constitution, and turkey is becoming more and more destabilized).
De Gaulle's coming to power in France and restoration and transformation from failing former empire to democracy. Even Napoleon Bonaparte's take over in 1799 led to reunification and stimulus in pushing France to a superpower status of the day.
Of course these events have been based on initiatives of militaries.

The only problem in any military putsch arises if military tries to keep power longer than necessary in changing government or pushes forward a figure that becomes a dictator.
But again majority of coup detats have been involved militaries but most of the times as means or tools in hands of future dictators, not as carriers of national ideas or visions.

In our case, I am basing my optimism on the fact that our current military core is still veteran freedom fighters and patriots.
In a very short time, maybe 10 years it might change to regular military beurocratic establishment and we cannot hope of any good input.
But now, my hope is our military can somehow reverse the oligarchic power hold. Maybe not by putsch as to speak of, but some way.
I do not see a change coming from government itself, or from any opposition visible today.
But the change is very necessary today. Tomorrow it may be late.

[HajiHabibli]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You are right that majority of coups have had dictators establishing their power. Military's involvements were in form of supporting such coups, sometimes having split and opposite allegiances.
But there are fiew in which military took power and responsibility in restoring order and ensuring survival of country.
Here are some examples.
Number one is our neigbour turkey. For over 70 years the military has stepped in restoring order several times after political and fractional chaos has threatened country, since ataturk turned tables for a looser country that would otherwise dissolve and allmost dissapear. ( and by the way Erdogan's push to power consolidation started with purging military and ensuring it cannot interfere in islamising the constitution, and turkey is becoming more and more destabilized).
De Gaulle's coming to power in France and restoration and transformation from failing former empire to democracy. Even Napoleon Bonaparte's take over in 1799 led to reunification and stimulus in pushing France to a superpower status of the day.
Of course these events have been based on initiatives of militaries.

The only problem in any military putsch arises if military tries to keep power longer than necessary in changing government or pushes forward a figure that becomes a dictator.
But again majority of coup detats have been involved militaries but most of the times as means or tools in hands of future dictators, not as carriers of national ideas or visions.

In our case, I am basing my optimism on the fact that our current military core is still veteran freedom fighters and patriots.
In a very short time, maybe 10 years it might change to regular military beurocratic establishment and we cannot hope of any good input.
But now, my hope is our military can somehow reverse the oligarchic power hold. Maybe not by putsch as to speak of, but some way.
I do not see a change coming from government itself, or from any opposition visible today.
But the change is very necessary today. Tomorrow it may be late.

de gaulle did come to power via a coup, but it wasn't the military taking control for a period of time. it would be for lack of a better example, the military staging a coup to install ter petrosyan or kocharian as persident. and napoleon's example is outdated and irrelevant.

i will concede the turkish example, but (as much as it pains me to say) turks have proven to be more patriotic than our current (post-soviet) class of military/political leadership.



Kocharian, Serj, Vazgen Sargsyan, Seryan Ohanyan were all freedom fighters and patriots...

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Haykakan Jan military take over is not comparable to political chaos which can happen if country continues deteriorating in the hands of current political entities. This continuation may lead to the worst scenario regarding our neighbors and us.
Military take over may on the contrary, strengthen our defenses and national unity.
I know, any putsch is a hard to swallow pill. But that may become the only choice.
Armenia has 4 billion debt and growing. There may be a moment the country will become insolvent and austerity imposed by our creditors. That could lead to total collapse and flight out of Armenia.

Hakop, debt is measured by comparing it to GDP. It should be somewhere between 40 to 60 percent of GDP. That's healthy. Anything over 60% is alarming. Countries like Greece and Lebanon have a debt to GDP ratio of above 100%.

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

This video does not address to Armenia specifically but applies to all

.

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Առաջնագծի զինվորները

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[armnuke]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

The main opposition parties are backed by foreign interests and that is why they are not convincing. Sure many people are trying to make good changes but the mainframe of the opposition is as corrupt as the ruling elites. I have not seen any opposition party that I could say I support. Ukraine is finding out that revolution does not mean better anything. I would say a putsch may not be a bad idea as the army is by far the most effective institution in the country. Winning wars is different than managing a country and the putsch would need to be followed by some transition to civilian led society. The problem is that we lack the strong institutions needed for such a society. I also agree that the system matters less than the motives of the leaders. The ruling elites in Armenia were never my idea of ideal leaders but if it meant security and prosperity I was ok with them for the time being. It seems both peace and prosperity are far from given now and the country has resumed its depopulation track. We are not the only ones who think this way and the arrival of the new-old cat in town from Russia is a sure sign of this. To save their arses the elites may revive a western push now as we have seen renewed talks with the eu. The elites were doing a good job of playing west vs east to their advantage for a while but their inability to improve conditions domestically has lead to a loss of confidence in them from Armenian society and also Russia. A putsch lead by the new cat and Ohanyan may produce positive results. It would not surprise me if the putsch already happened in a hushed manner. We will have to wait and see but I do like the way you think. We need to enhance Armenia's ability to pursue her own interests. If a putsch can achieve this then I am all for it.

Oh come on man..you spoke highly of the 'ruling elite' when they ditched the trade agreement with the EU and made us join the Russian-led Eurasian Union. It took you just one meeting with the EU ambassador in Armenia to end your love fest?