Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Nagorno-Karabakh Defense Army

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[burjuin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Very interesting subject. But if you look into Russia's military history it is abvious that Russia has always been subpar with neighboring powers. Actually Russian army is probably the strongest now than it has ever been. From times of Ivan the terrible Russian military has always been plagued with deficiencies.
Your comment about Russian army wiping the floor with Turks is not correct. The most important factor, which is support and participation of local populations in wars Against Turkish yoke has been the greatest difference.
Russian Army has not faced Turks in Russia itself but in territories heavily populated by revolting populations. The biggest effects can be seen in Balkan victories and local nations heavy pro Russia participations.
We, Armenians should never forget our role in all Russia- Turkish conflicts. We should give ourselves credit and see our power where it's due. For place that were populated mainly by Muslims, Russia has done very poorly. Like Dagestan or Chechnya. Those places Russia could not control for more that 100 years and leapfrogged to southern Caucasus mainly with the help of Armenians and Georgians.
The reality is that history has always been like current Syria. Russia has certainly got the ability to tip a balance of a war with very measured and minimal involvement of resources since the local population is fighting vehemently. Then military establishes bases. Then closest territories fall ander Russian jurisdiction by treaties and become gubernatorates.
Any future Armenia-Azerbaijan, Turkey conflict outcome will depend on us.
If we fight hard, Russia will be EMBOLDENED to invest into conflict on our side and fight against Turks.
But if we act like cowards or unwilling to stand up, Russia will pull out its forces and run faster than we call "help" regardless if it had the strongest army in the world. Check history.
So this mass guessing efforts by thousands of us for if Russia will help us or not is waist of time, "mildly speaking".
We make sure we do all we can and above that in the fight, Russia will not loose the opportunity to be in the game to gain the most it can by helping non losers.
Even the last, 4 day conflict proves my thoughts. If you see clearly thru dust and fog of politics and media, it is clear that for past 6 years Russia was increasingly taking pro Azerbaijan stand. That was because of Azery armament purchases fueled by oil. Russia, not only, everybody else also believed that Azerbaijan would win next war.
But the miracle of Armenian fighters quickly turned table and Russian priorities about who's the ally in Caucasus.

I generally agree with Hakob as most of his posts make sense but I cant say I agree with this post. According to that post Russia should be running Anatolia as the Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians..were all willing to fight. In places like Chechnia there aren't too many nonchechens wiling to fight, Russia should not be ruling. In reality we have the opposite. If you bring up the Bolshevik revolution as a excuse then yeh maybe that makes sense but then again the Russia/Turkey struggle is far longer then that and would have been long decided by that time if it was based on the local populations will to resist. Our own willingness to fight for our own cause has been questionable at best and this can merit Hakob's argument somewhat but we were not the only minority in the region to pick up arms over the years against the Turk. I see our weakness every day in the diaspora communities as they are willing to do things in our communities to lets say promote genocide recognition along with their own self recognition but hardly anything gets done that even has the potential of producing tangible results in relation to nation building. I blame this on the fact that we Armenians have not had a nation of our own for a long time but perhaps we were that bad when we did have our own kingdoms to? Just look at how much energy and resources are being spent on vilifying the modern state of Armenia and how many Armenians are so willing to jump on this bandwagon(most of whom have never even visited Armenia). Building a country doesn't just happen. You need to plan and work hard to execute that plan. We Armenians do not have a Nation mentality, hell most of us do not really believe in a strong central government period. Even when strong foreign central governments have whipped the floors with our blood over the centuries we refuse to build our own strong government and then blame the Russians, blame the Turks, Blame Santa.. for our troubles.

[Achemish]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Are they for real?
In 2008 the Russian Army was much less modernized than it is now and they wiped out Georgia in no time.
They're all over Syria.
The Turkish Army is not what we thought it is.
They lost 3 Leopard tanks in 2 days, yesterday they lost a M60T Sabra tank and a Cobra in another ATGM duet.
The same day they lost the 2 Leopards, they lost an F-16C Block 50 advanced in Diyarbakir.

Leopards: http://defense-watch.com/2016/12/13/...is-atgm-syria/

Yesterday's M60T: http://defense-watch.com/2016/12/16/...vehicle-syria/

F-16 Diyarbakir: http://defense-watch.com/2016/12/13/...bakir-airbase/

Check out that mediocre tank usage.

Russia's infrantry was in extremely poor state during the Georgian war, with poor training and poor gear, they still won because they overpowered Georgian forces with their much larger numbers (also keep in mind that while all of the Russian infrantry was in bad shape, the Russian Southern Military District, which is the one that fought in the war, is the least effective of Russia's forces and receives gear last as its less of a priority zone than areas like the border with NATO states). The war was a major wake up call for Russian military command, and they've performed massive reforms of their infrantry forces, with much better training and equipment. The Ratnik combat system is an example of this, bringing Russian infrantry gear standards up to par with Western standards, you could see this in their takeover with Crimea where their forces acted extremely efficiently and in the photos of them that were taken you could see they were equipped leagues better than during Georgia. Regarding Turkish forces, their effectivness is atrocious, I saw videos on Reddit.com/r/combatfootage from when they began entering Syria and you could see in various videos how they would position their tanks sitting right in the open where any ISIS or other fighter could target them, and then even worse, one of the tanks would get hit by an ATGM and the others wouldn't even react and get hit by more ATGM's, either being so poorly organized that they don't even have proper communication set up to be warned, or seeing it and simply not understanding that they should stop being in the open.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Comparing Russia vs Georgia is humiliating. It is like comparing the US vs Costa Rica.
Most of the Georgian and Ukrainian armament are Russian.
Russia with one tactical nuke could wipeout Georgia off the map.

[Achemish]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Comparing Russia vs Georgia is humiliating. It is like comparing the US vs Costa Rica.
Most of the Georgian and Ukrainian armament are Russian.
Russia with one tactical nuke could wipeout Georgia off the map.

Obviously they aren't a match compared to Russia, we aren't really analyzing the conflict between the two, we're just using it to see Russia's effectiveness. Regardless of efficiency Russia wins, but you can still use the conflict to see how effective Russia's forces currently are.

[Azad]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Obviously they aren't a match compared to Russia, we aren't really analyzing the conflict between the two, we're just using it to see Russia's effectiveness. Regardless of efficiency Russia wins, but you can still use the conflict to see how effective Russia's forces currently are.

I think countries readiness/stamina will be relative of the conflict’s gravity they will face. Most start with uncertainty and eventually builds up to their extreme. Examples>> Vietnams war, Russian facing the Germans, British survival WII, unlike the gay French it took a Manouchian to start the resistance. Russia has one of the most beautiful, simple to use armament build to withstand roughness. On the other hand, the US has one of the most sophisticated, fragile Armement that is effective in tracking/pinpointing targets. Except, they have not been used against sophisticated enemies yet. We saw how the Russians with their radars handicapped all of the US/turkish air force in Syria. Not a good sign for the US/NATO. As far Georgia, Russia send their troops for a training vacation in the Caucasus. They are joke with attitude! I personally view Georgians as Christian turks.

[arakeretzig]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I personally view Georgians as Christian turks.

^^ they should just break this misery and confess, ie come out of the closet.

it's too bad we need them.

[Etchmiadzin]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

^^ they should just break this misery and confess, ie come out of the closet.

it's too bad we need them.

I would not call them christian turks more like turncoats without principles. When our region was ruled by muslims they converted because it suited them, during soviet times they were the biggest atheists and now they are christian/democracy worshippers. Turks are atleast honest in one way they dont/cant hide the fact they want to destroy us.