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Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
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Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
Originally posted by HyeSocialist View PostLand corridor to the black sea. OK. Fantastic. We can be like Djibouti and Somalia, nations with access to the water yet no idea what to do with it. The argument I am trying to make is that the whole concept of Armenia taking over Azerbaijan or expanding the geography of the country is largely not going to happen. They are political ideologies that distract from making what we have better and competitive.
Industrializing and improving Armenia's economy is as much part of defeating Azerbaijan and the Turks and making Armenia the better state than all this muscle flexing of weaponary.
Look at the two Koreas. No one would argue that the North is winning anything, which is why they're developing nukes. They're essentially failed states that have nothing else but political blackmail going for them.
You are under the impression that beating the Turks, taking back our lands, and bettering the economy are mutually exclusive. This is wrong. To better the Armenian economic situation, you must beat the Turks who hinder Armenia's economic progress through an unlawful and warlike blockade on the nation. A land corridor to the Black Sea is existential for the nation. Access to the world and Armenia's allies should be the foremost goal. I do not know why you would think such a goal is its own ideology or is a distraction from anything. It is a remedy. A righting of the wrongs done to the nation over the past 100 years. I'd assume the "geographic expansion distraction" you speak of also includes Artsakh's struggle? Is not that geographic expansion. It seems like Armenia's borders are spreading there!
You can't make what you have better and more wealthy if what you have is nothing.
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Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
Originally posted by Lori View PostIndustralizing? What do you think Armenia is? 1920s Ukraine or Russia? That was a hurdle passed decades ago. Djibouti and Somalia? Don't even try it, those are failed states and in everlasting civil war. Nothing in common with Armenia's situation. A very poor comparison. South Korea is an economic East Asian power and has a significant military industry, they are far from a "Failed state". North Korea is a failed state since it is communist with no resources to speak of and strong and unneeded social repression. Not comparable either.
You are under the impression that beating the Turks, taking back our lands, and bettering the economy are mutually exclusive. This is wrong. To better the Armenian economic situation, you must beat the Turks who hinder Armenia's economic progress through an unlawful and warlike blockade on the nation. A land corridor to the Black Sea is existential for the nation. Access to the world and Armenia's allies should be the foremost goal. I do not know why you would think such a goal is its own ideology or is a distraction from anything. It is a remedy. A righting of the wrongs done to the nation over the past 100 years. I'd assume the "geographic expansion distraction" you speak of also includes Artsakh's struggle? Is not that geographic expansion. It seems like Armenia's borders are spreading there!
You can't make what you have better and more wealthy if what you have is nothing.
As to the corridor, how do you envision the creation of this corridor ? Through direct control of land ? Opening the borders with Turkey ? Highway/Railway through Georgia ?
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Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
Originally posted by Zeytun View PostNorth Korea is a failed state but its not due to the lack of resources, in fact the northern part is richer in resources ( Metals, Oil, Water, etc...).
As to the corridor, how do you envision the creation of this corridor ? Through direct control of land ? Opening the borders with Turkey ? Highway/Railway through Georgia ?
But since Georgians and us are in diffrent camps, its very unlikely.
Though money opens up every door. If we would have a couple of global capacity companies in Armenia, those could initiate and finance such a project.
Maybe not realistic? But could happen if...
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Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
From our border to the Black Sea is around 180km straight shot. From the Armenian region of Georgia it is around 130km.
The last 60km close to the Black Sea are treacherous terrain to build large roads without any major infrastructures $$$.
Around $20 million/km x 200 Km = 4 Billion and 2 Billions in bridges. Land acquisition and any country's blessing = Good Luck!
At 5% interest it is 350 million a year
@ $100 a car 3.5 million cars.
@ $300 container truck 1.16 million trucks
No matter how we divide it, it is not feasible for a population of 3 million people. Even if we add the Iranian equation.
This is only paying of the project does not even include profits or land acquisition.Last edited by Azad; 03-08-2017, 04:42 PM.
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Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
Originally posted by Zeytun View PostNorth Korea is a failed state but its not due to the lack of resources, in fact the northern part is richer in resources ( Metals, Oil, Water, etc...).
As to the corridor, how do you envision the creation of this corridor ? Through direct control of land ? Opening the borders with Turkey ? Highway/Railway through Georgia ?
Leasing a land for road or railway is not unknown.
But since Georgians and us are in diffrent camps, its very unlikely.
Though money opens up every door. If we would have a couple of global capacity companies in Armenia, those could initiate and finance such a project.
Maybe not realistic? But could happen if...From our border to the Black Sea is around 180km straight shot. From the Armenian region of Georgia it is around 130km.
The last 60km close to the Black Sea are treacherous terrain to build large roads without any major infrastructures $$$.
Around $20 million/km x 200 Km = 4 Billion and 2 Billions in bridges. Land acquisition and any country's blessing = Good Luck!
At 5% interest it is 350 million a year
@ $100 a car 3.5 million cars.
@ $300 container truck 1.16 million trucks
No matter how we divide it, it is not feasible for a population of 3 million people. Even if we add the Iranian equation.
This is only paying of the project does not even include profits or land acquisition.
The Turkish provinces between Shirak and the Black Sea isn't the Louisana Territory. They have roads, bridges, and even small cities. Believe it or not, Turks aren't Mongolian nomads, at least not anymore. Only about a million Turkish citizens live between Kars and Rize. Some of them even "Armenian."Last edited by Lori; 03-08-2017, 05:18 PM.
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Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan
Originally posted by Lori View PostAzad, I am not sure what you are talking about. The distance from Gyumri to Hopa and Batumi is the same. And Georgia would have nothing to do with this.
I agree with need our own coast or shore on the Black Sea. Attached is a map of the region, the white lined areas are majority Armenians.
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