Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

[Vahram]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Argin, you spotted him too :-)

Note that when the azerbaboon attacked our cities in NKR none of this is mentioned. Nor is this a war crime for him, but if we touch the pipes the Yahoodie calls this a war crime LOL!

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We know you Iranians masturbate to your missile fetish - but the rest of the world has more sense: missiles are crude and ineffective. I've said this before - I hope the armed forces of Armenia and NK have better military planners than the armchair strategists in this thread. Targeting cities is a war crime. Targeting non-military structures is a war crime. Don't you know that flippant targeting (or just even flippant threatening to target) an infrastructure that links to other neighbouring countries, that supply a commodity that affects the international economy, and that is majority owned by third-party countries and international companies just guarantees that Armenia gets xxxxed internationally. Do you actually think Azerbaijan (in the context of a renewed full-blown war that Azerbaijan would have started) would care or be surprised if the pipeline was damaged? No - they will expect it, and have planned for it.

Tell that to nato which has been bombing the s*it out of various cities in Libya and did the same in Serbia 11 years ago. Only a clown would come in here and talk about international law as if that is upheld universally and not dished out to those peoples and countries that the would-be rulers of the world deem to be undesirable at the given moment. Furthermore, Armenia will enjoy the backing of Russia which means protecting from any bs UN resolutions, which are never worth the paper they are typed on.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

We know you Iranians masturbate to your missile fetish - but the rest of the world has more sense: missiles are crude and ineffective. I've said this before - I hope the armed forces of Armenia and NK have better military planners than the armchair strategists in this thread. Targeting cities is a war crime. Targeting non-military structures is a war crime. Don't you know that flippant targeting (or just even flippant threatening to target) an infrastructure that links to other neighbouring countries, that supply a commodity that affects the international economy, and that is majority owned by third-party countries and international companies just guarantees that Armenia gets xxxxed internationally. Do you actually think Azerbaijan (in the context of a renewed full-blown war that Azerbaijan would have started) would care or be surprised if the pipeline was damaged? No - they will expect it, and have planned for it.

The Scott has spoken again. Kitty, we all know you live in your self-created fantasy world, pretending to be an "expert" in "international affairs" and "politics". But man, sometimes the crap is just too much. I feel sorry that such and old guy, probably older than most of us here, can at the same time be so stupid.

First of all, you can't just say "missiles are ineffective", as every missile has it's own characteristics. For example, as the exact locations of the pumping stations and pipelines are known, and if Armenia indeed possessed the SMERCH missiles, it would be no problem to hit them. If not the first, nor the second, than the third would hit is surely. And indeed, the sabotage units of the Armenian Armed Forces can penetrate deeply into Azerbaijani territory, there was once a short documentary about this.

You as a European (NATO bombing the xxxx out of every city or village in the world, and Israel destroying the entire infrastructure of Lebanon in a few days), don't give a damn about human rights or war crimes. War crimes are invented by Europeans like you. When will you understand that the world doesn't give a xxxx about human lives? The Turks could get away with the (multiple!) Armenian genocides, slaughtering millions of innocent Christians. The Azerbaijanis have bombed dozens of cities and villages during the last war, and together with the Turks are destroying ancient Armenian heritage, and the world approves this, as it's all about money. And now you are claiming that hitting a pipeline would be disastrous? That's just hilarious. All international experts agree that during a war, the infrastructure of both countries will be entirely damaged.

From the first till the last word, total rubbish. As we are used from Kitty Pitty.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Tell that to nato which has been bombing the s*it out of various cities in Libya and did the same in Serbia 11 years ago. Only a clown would come in here and talk about international law as if that is upheld universally and not dished out to those peoples and countries that the would-be rulers of the world deem to be undesirable at the given moment. Furthermore, Armenia will enjoy the backing of Russia which means protecting from any bs UN resolutions, which are never worth the paper they are typed on.

You aren't even good enough to be called an armchair strategist - you are a little-kid-playing-with-his-toy-solders strategist!

When Serbia withdrew from Kossovo it left with its armed forces 99% intact - the NATO bombs and missiles had done negligible damage to them and were completely ineffective against military targets. They were great for killing civilians in Belgrade though, and bombing civilian targets like bridges and ambulances and tractors. Same for Libya - months of daily bombing by the most advanced military hardware has negligible military results but lots of dead civilians. Lucky for NATO and America that they control the media and have a permanent get-out-of-jail free card for every war crime they commit. An unimportant little country like Armenia hasn't got one.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Accident kills two soldiers

07:33 pm | Today | Social


On July 22, soldiers riding in an "Ural" car of the Ministry of Defense got into a car accident near Sers village in Vayots Dzor province.

The accident left two soldiers dead and several soldiers with physical injuries of varying degrees. The details of the incident are being cleared up and information will be provided, reports the MD press service.

http://www.a1plus.am/en/social/2011/07/22/vtar

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

When Serbia withdrew from Kossovo it left with its armed forces 99% intact - the NATO bombs and missiles had done negligible damage to them and were completely ineffective against military targets. They were great for killing civilians in Belgrade though, and bombing civilian targets like bridges and ambulances and tractors. Same for Libya - months of daily bombing by the most advanced military hardware has negligible military results but lots of dead civilians. Lucky for NATO and America that they control the media and have a permanent get-out-of-jail free card for every war crime they commit. An unimportant little country like Armenia hasn't got one.

I'm happy you're not one of those freaks who support the bombing of Serbia and Libya, bell . Another example is Israel bombing Lebanon all the way from Tripoli in the north to Maroun al-Ras at the border in 2006. Armenia does not have a get-out-of-jail free card but Russia does. You can bet we will have implicit and tacit Russian support if we manage to stop the flow of oil from Baku to Ceyhan. They will be more than pleased, they bombed the pipeline during the 2008 South Ossetian war themselves. Bombing the pipeline would not be viewed as a "war crime" (at least not a serious one) in the eyes of many because civilian will presumably not be harmed in such an operation. Armenia (with Russian support) can easily claim that the oil is funding the war machine.

[Federate]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

U.S., Armenian Militaries Plan First-Ever Joint Drills


Armenia -- Defense Minister Seyran Ohanian (C) and his first deputy Davit Tonoyan (R) inspect Armenian troops in Afghanistan, 24July 2010.

The United States and Armenia have tentatively agreed to hold first-ever joint military exercises that will highlight their growing security ties, the Armenian Defense Ministry announced on Friday.

Ministry spokesman Davit Karapetian told RFE/RL’s Armenian service that the drills will likely take place next year or in 2013 and involve U.S. and Armenian troops engaged in multinational “peacekeeping” operations. He said an agreement to that effect was finalized during U.S.-Armenian “defense consultations” held in Washington this week.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of Defense Alexander Vershbow and his deputy Celeste Wallander held the two-day talks with an Armenian delegation headed by First Deputy Defense Davit Tonoyan.

Tonoyan also met separately with U.S. Undersecretary of Defense Michele Flournoy and Eric Rubin, the newly appointed deputy assistant secretary of state for Europe and Eurasia. The Pentagon issued no statements on the talks.

The Defense Ministry in Yerevan said they took place “in a warm and constructive atmosphere.” “The parties expressed readiness to expand the spheres of cooperation,” read a ministry statement.

According to the statement, Tonoyan discussed with the Pentagon officials “joint exercises and trainings with the aim of participating in peacekeeping operations.”


Karapetian clarified that they reached a “preliminary agreement to hold joint exercises of peacekeeping forces of the two countries in Armenia in 2012-2013.” The drills will help to improve the interoperability of those forces, he said.

“This is very important considering the peacekeeping operations carried out by U.S. and Armenian troops in Afghanistan,” added the ministry spokesman.

Armenia last month almost tripled its participation in NATO’s International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) for Afghanistan and currently has about 130 troops on the ground. Wallander praised the additional Armenian troop deployment there when she visited Yerevan later in June.

The Defense Ministry statement Tonoyan also discussed in Washington the training of Armenian military personnel in the United States. It said the two sides also mapped out “new areas of further cooperation” stemming from Armenia’s recent “strategic defense review.”

The review is part of ongoing defense reforms which are envisaged by Armenia’s Individual Partnership Action Plan (IPAP) with NATO launched in 2005. They are supposed to bring the Armenian military into greater conformity with U.S. and NATO standards.

U.S. and Armenian troops have until now trained together only in multinational exercises organized by NATO. Armenia has hosted two such exercises in recent years.

Those drills as well as the Armenian participation in the U.S.-led missions in Afghanistan and Kosovo have underscored Armenia’s desire to complement its military alliance with Russia with closer defense links with the West. Yerevan and Moscow bolstered that alliance last year with an agreement that extended Russian military presence in the South Caucasus country by 24 years, until 2044.

Speaking to RFE/RL’s Armenian service in Yerevan, Wallander insisted that Russian-Armenian military ties are not an obstacle to growing military cooperation between the U.S. and Armenia.

http://www.azatutyun.am/content/article/24273995.html

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I'm happy you're not one of those freaks who support the bombing of Serbia and Libya, bell . Another example is Israel bombing Lebanon all the way from Tripoli in the north to Maroun al-Ras at the border in 2006. Armenia does not have a get-out-of-jail free card but Russia does. You can bet we will have implicit and tacit Russian support if we manage to stop the flow of oil from Baku to Ceyhan. They will be more than pleased, they bombed the pipeline during the 2008 South Ossetian war themselves. Bombing the pipeline would not be viewed as a "war crime" (at least not a serious one) in the eyes of many because civilian will presumably not be harmed in such an operation. Armenia (with Russian support) can easily claim that the oil is funding the war machine.

Russia doesn't play the game, or at best plays it half-heartedly without much ambition (America and Nato kill foreigners in distant lands everywhere, Russia mostly now just kills its own citizens and those of its immediate neighbours) - so its card doesn't count in the eyes of the players who do play the game.

I didn't actually say that bombing the pipeline would be a war crime - I was trying to say that it would be pointless and counter-productive. It would be counter-productive because destroying foreign-owned infrastructure that is owned by influential multinational companies won't help Armenia, would piss-off important countries, and would damage the international economy. It would be pointless because the scenario would only occur if Azerbaijan renewed an outright war, which would mean Azerbaijan would have considered the disruption of the pipeline and loss of revenue an acceptable price to pay over the short term and something it could live with.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

...they bombed the pipeline during the 2008 South Ossetian war themselves...

?
Where is this info from?
I recall that the PKK claimed they bombed it (i.e. the damage must have been inside Turkish territory), then that claim was dismissed and it was said to have been an accident that caused it, then even when the damaged section was repaired the pipeline stayed closed during the duration of the fighting just in case it did become a target.

[Joseph]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Infrastructure is certainly a target if the conflict begins again (an Azeri attack). Several times during the war the Azeris targeted gas lines into Armenia in Georgian territory. The pipeline passes very close the NKR in the extreme NE sector and very close the Armenia near Kazakh (which would probably be an Armenian target in a counter-attack) and if the war starts again, the Armenians may indeed occupy the area effectively cut off the pipeline. Large multinational firms have/are supporting the Azeris already so I don't imagine much will change---Armenia effectively gets support from Russia and Iran to a lesser degree. Let us also remember, that in the scheme of things, Azerbaijan contributes a very small portion of the worlds oil resources and output not too mention production has already peaked ( another reason for the increased rhetoric and push and favorable settlement from Baku); they are feeling the pressure and the US has largely seceded the region to Russian control. The Russians play the biggest factor here. The pipeline angers them and they did attempt to blast the pipeline during the August War in 2008 (but half-heartedly and only with bombers) until Aliyev BEGGED them not too. I think it should also be noted that if the war begins again, it will probably be extremely intense with no hold barred. Both sides are going to target civilians and infrastructure. This time the Azeris will not have free reign in the Marneuli region of Georgia.