What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

[Mos]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

^^^

Good plan. We need to actively settle people in Karabakh. Give incentives, tax breaks, etc.

[Federate]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

^^^

Good plan. We need to actively settle people in Karabakh. Give incentives, tax breaks, etc.

What pissed me off reading this article were Richard Giragosian's comments. That mentality is what has kept the liberated territories of the Republic of Artsakh empty.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

^^^

Good plan. We need to actively settle people in Karabakh. Give incentives, tax breaks, etc.

"White collar crime" in Armenia normally means corruption or tax evasion - and there will be opportunities to continue that in NK. But why would the criminals bother - all they need do is drag the start date of their trial out a bit and wait until the next amnesty (there will be one after the next parliamentary elections). They will then get released if already convicted, or, if not yet convicted, will avoid going to trial at all.

[Tigranakert]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

What pissed me off reading this article were Richard Giragosian's comments. That mentality is what has kept the liberated territories of the Republic of Artsakh empty.

It's his job, he is an agent sent by America, he lived there all his life and suddenly moved to Armenia. By the way, he is half-Armenian and was converted to islam when he married his by now ex-wife in America. He remarried in Armenia. Read his articles, all of them are anti-Russian, pro-American and anti-Armenian. It's a shame Armenians quote him, but wait, it's usually US funded websites like EurasiaNet, ArmeniaNow, RadioFreeLibertymyass. It's plain simple, something called propaganda and information warfare.

[Mos]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

It's his job, he is an agent sent by America, he lived there all his life and suddenly moved to Armenia. By the way, he is half-Armenian and was converted to islam when he married his by now ex-wife in America. He remarried in Armenia. Read his articles, all of them are anti-Russian, pro-American and anti-Armenian. It's a shame Armenians quote him, but wait, it's usually US funded websites like EurasiaNet, ArmeniaNow, RadioFreeLibertymyass. It's plain simple, something called propaganda and information warfare.

I really don't like his writings either, probably a tool of the US Embassy. Let me tell you, the US embassy in Armenia is actively trying to sway Armenia away from Russia. It's been a constant project. I've heard stories of how the Ambassador has been trying to do this. But of course the alternative to Russia is Turkey, and Turkey is equivalent to US/NATO interests that they are pushing for.

Do you have source for him converting to Islam and his background?

[Tigranakert]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

I really don't like his writings either, probably a tool of the US Embassy. Let me tell you, the US embassy in Armenia is actively trying to sway Armenia away from Russia. It's been a constant project. I've heard stories of how the Ambassador has been trying to do this. But of course the alternative to Russia is Turkey, and Turkey is equivalent to US/NATO interests that they are pushing for.

Do you have source for him converting to Islam and his background?

Usually concerning donkey individuals, there is not a literary study, nor a book, or "source" available about someones history. You can read some on http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.ph...ard_Giragosian and other materials as well if you google him, it's a known fact that he works for the US government, receives funding from the US government and works ("has worked") for the CIA.

Agent Richard Giragosian



The first heads-up I got about agent Richard Giragosian was from a cyberian associate of mine who had lived in agent Giragosian's home state, Rode Island. This person contacted me several years ago when Giragosian had just began making noise in Armenian circles as a political expert. Today, you may already know that with the help of his close comrade-in-arms, Raffi Hovannisian, agent Giragosian lives and works in Yerevan as a political analyst of a think tank known as ACNIS. The comments in blue (see below) is what my associate wrote several years ago, a couple of years before agent Giragosian set up his above mentioned political think tank in Yerevan.

As an officially recognized political expert/analyst in Armenia, agent Giragosian's main task has been to take carefully aimed shots at Armenia's strategic alliance with Russia. His so-called think tank also concerns itself with undermining Armenia's current government. Last summer, agent Giragosian publicly stated that Armenia was being "colonized" by Russia as a result of the Russian military's prolonged stay in Armenia - totally ignoring the fact that his bosses in Washington have about one thousand military installations and hundreds of thousands of troops in dozens of nations all around the world, totally ignoring the fact that the Russian base in question (merely several thousand strong, half of whom are in fact Armenians contracted by Russia) is fundamentally the reason why Armenia's borders have not yet been violated by NATO member, Turkey.

And in a more recent press release, agent Giragosian warned Armenian officials that the social unrest in Tunisia is something that the "corrupt" regime in Yerevan seriously needs to think about and worry. What agent Giragosian failed to point out, however, was that events currently taking place in the Middle East and North Africa are actually a popular uprising against the region's American backed dictators. As I have outlined in my previous commentaries, agent Giragosian's bosses in Washington and Langley simply want to replace Armenia's pro-Russian government with a bunch of mercenaries that are willing to serve the Anglo-American-Zionist alliance, and slogans such as "end of corruption in Armenia" and "freedom and democracy in Armenia" are being used to recruit and/or employ our nation's sheeple.

It must be pointed out that Armenia's interior ministry in tandem with Russia's intelligence services know exactly who agent Giragosian and many others like him work for. Official Yerevan allows these types of individuals to operate inside Armenia primarily as conciliatory gesture toward Washington. I would even venture to guess that a majority of self-respecting Armenians who know these people in Armenia realize that these vermin are dangerous foreign agents and not compatriots worthy of any respect (sadly, however, there aren't many self-respecting Armenians these days). As a matter of fact, public information provided about agent Giragosian by Armeniapedia is very self-explanatory (please see below). They don't even try to hide the fact that agent Giragosian has intimate ties with the CIA. Thus, there are no real secrets being revealed here by me. So, don't panic.

My exposé about individuals like Giragosian and the Hovannisian family are primarily meant for the Armenian-American audience - perhaps the most irrational and the most ignorant of our diasporas and one that continues to suffer from serious political irrationalities and obsessions.

Nonetheless, when discussing matters relating to Armenia, Armenians need to be very wary of the following entities and personalities which happen to be intimately interconnected for they serve or emanate from the same source: Radio Liberty (and all its affiliates), Raffi Hovannisian and family, ArmeniaNow (the propaganda outlet run by American agent John Hughes and British agent Tony Halpin), media outlet Hetq, media outlet A1 Plus, Armenian "opposition" leader Levon Ter Petrosian and friends, Paruyr Hayrikian, Vartan Oskanian and his Civilitas organization, the Armenian Assembly of America and associates, AAA member Van Krikorian (of TARC fame), British-Armenian agent/activist Onnik Krikorian, certain segments of the ARF, ARF media outlet Asbarez and of course, Richard Giragosian and his ACNIS.

And they say Armenia is not free?!

The aforementioned individuals and entities, directly or indirectly, knowingly or unknowingly, do the bidding of the Anglo-American-Zionist alliance and its regional Turkic allies and their oil/gas interests. The aforementioned parasites and agents of influence, who represent a significant segment (if not a majority) of Armenian society in and out of the homeland, simply do what they do to undermine Armenia's crucially important strategic alliance with the Russian Federation and Armenia's crucially important relations with Iran.

And they say Armenia is not free...

Heck, looking at the political landscape in little Armenia, I see a lot of foreign agents, anti-state news media outlets, foreign NGOs doing their corrosive work, foreign and domestic mercenaries, foreign and domestic provocateurs and quite a lot of treasonous politicians of all types. And they say Armenia is not fee?!?!?! Politically, Armenia is actually a lot freer than the United States! Of course I say this with much regret.

Nevertheless, against all odds, our landlocked and blockaded republic in the Caucasus has been developing more-or-less FREE of the corrosive effects of the Anglo-American-Zionist global order and their regional Turkic allies. This is essentially the reason why Armenia has been blacklisted by the Western alliance and this is the reason why a slew of Western agents currently saturate Armenia's political landscape.

To summarize, the following are seven information points about agent Richard Giragosian:

1) He is half-Armenian (Armenian father, English mother)

2) He is said to have a military-intelligence background in America and a civilian rank that is said to be equal to a lieutenant colonel in the military

3) He was married to an Algerian woman and converted to Islam - the conversion to Islam was most likely staged and was intended to enable him to penetrate Islamic communities

4) He speaks English, Arabic, French and some Armenian

5) He was transferred to Armenia to start a "think tank" and begin working against Armenia's political orientation towards Russia

6) He is a close associate of Raffi Hovannisian

7) He is also well connected to the Armenian Assembly of America

The following are edited segments of the letter I received from a cyberian friend several years ago:
Richard Giragosian was married to an Algerian woman (since divorced and now married to a Yerevansti) and "converted" (I don't think he was serious about it) to Islam at his wife's families request. Also, he learned to speak Arabic. This helped his career immensely after 911 because he was an insider in the Islamic community who could gather info for the US government.
He has a civilian rank equal to the military rank of lieutenant colonel and has gone through military training (such as airborne school) with US Army special forces.
He is half Armenian on his father's side. I don't know his mother's lineage, but I could probably find out. Anyway, I believe his Armenian step-mother had more of an influence on his life than his real mother. He also speaks French.
With all that said, it is obvious that he is a US agent, but I hope he is not using his position in ways that hurt Armenia (knowingly or unknowingly). Anyway, I am telling you all of this because Richard should have nothing to hide. If he is truly working for Armenia's interest and aims to be in the public eye, his dealings should be transparent and he should be held accountable for his actions for better or for worse. All in all, on a personal level, I like Richard...but I only know him as an acquaintance. I have now been conditioned to look at him with suspicion.

Anonymous

[Mos]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

Usually concerning donkey individuals, there is not a literary study, nor a book, or "source" available about someones history. You can read some on http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.ph...ard_Giragosian and other materials as well if you google him, it's a known fact that he works for the US government, receives funding from the US government and works ("has worked") for the CIA.

Agent Richard Giragosian



The first heads-up I got about agent Richard Giragosian was from a cyberian associate of mine who had lived in agent Giragosian's home state, Rode Island. This person contacted me several years ago when Giragosian had just began making noise in Armenian circles as a political expert. Today, you may already know that with the help of his close comrade-in-arms, Raffi Hovannisian, agent Giragosian lives and works in Yerevan as a political analyst of a think tank known as ACNIS. The comments in blue (see below) is what my associate wrote several years ago, a couple of years before agent Giragosian set up his above mentioned political think tank in Yerevan.

As an officially recognized political expert/analyst in Armenia, agent Giragosian's main task has been to take carefully aimed shots at Armenia's strategic alliance with Russia. His so-called think tank also concerns itself with undermining Armenia's current government. Last summer, agent Giragosian publicly stated that Armenia was being "colonized" by Russia as a result of the Russian military's prolonged stay in Armenia - totally ignoring the fact that his bosses in Washington have about one thousand military installations and hundreds of thousands of troops in dozens of nations all around the world, totally ignoring the fact that the Russian base in question (merely several thousand strong, half of whom are in fact Armenians contracted by Russia) is fundamentally the reason why Armenia's borders have not yet been violated by NATO member, Turkey.

And in a more recent press release, agent Giragosian warned Armenian officials that the social unrest in Tunisia is something that the "corrupt" regime in Yerevan seriously needs to think about and worry. What agent Giragosian failed to point out, however, was that events currently taking place in the Middle East and North Africa are actually a popular uprising against the region's American backed dictators. As I have outlined in my previous commentaries, agent Giragosian's bosses in Washington and Langley simply want to replace Armenia's pro-Russian government with a bunch of mercenaries that are willing to serve the Anglo-American-Zionist alliance, and slogans such as "end of corruption in Armenia" and "freedom and democracy in Armenia" are being used to recruit and/or employ our nation's sheeple.

It must be pointed out that Armenia's interior ministry in tandem with Russia's intelligence services know exactly who agent Giragosian and many others like him work for. Official Yerevan allows these types of individuals to operate inside Armenia primarily as conciliatory gesture toward Washington. I would even venture to guess that a majority of self-respecting Armenians who know these people in Armenia realize that these vermin are dangerous foreign agents and not compatriots worthy of any respect (sadly, however, there aren't many self-respecting Armenians these days). As a matter of fact, public information provided about agent Giragosian by Armeniapedia is very self-explanatory (please see below). They don't even try to hide the fact that agent Giragosian has intimate ties with the CIA. Thus, there are no real secrets being revealed here by me. So, don't panic.

My exposé about individuals like Giragosian and the Hovannisian family are primarily meant for the Armenian-American audience - perhaps the most irrational and the most ignorant of our diasporas and one that continues to suffer from serious political irrationalities and obsessions.

Nonetheless, when discussing matters relating to Armenia, Armenians need to be very wary of the following entities and personalities which happen to be intimately interconnected for they serve or emanate from the same source: Radio Liberty (and all its affiliates), Raffi Hovannisian and family, ArmeniaNow (the propaganda outlet run by American agent John Hughes and British agent Tony Halpin), media outlet Hetq, media outlet A1 Plus, Armenian "opposition" leader Levon Ter Petrosian and friends, Paruyr Hayrikian, Vartan Oskanian and his Civilitas organization, the Armenian Assembly of America and associates, AAA member Van Krikorian (of TARC fame), British-Armenian agent/activist Onnik Krikorian, certain segments of the ARF, ARF media outlet Asbarez and of course, Richard Giragosian and his ACNIS.

And they say Armenia is not free?!

The aforementioned individuals and entities, directly or indirectly, knowingly or unknowingly, do the bidding of the Anglo-American-Zionist alliance and its regional Turkic allies and their oil/gas interests. The aforementioned parasites and agents of influence, who represent a significant segment (if not a majority) of Armenian society in and out of the homeland, simply do what they do to undermine Armenia's crucially important strategic alliance with the Russian Federation and Armenia's crucially important relations with Iran.

And they say Armenia is not free...

Heck, looking at the political landscape in little Armenia, I see a lot of foreign agents, anti-state news media outlets, foreign NGOs doing their corrosive work, foreign and domestic mercenaries, foreign and domestic provocateurs and quite a lot of treasonous politicians of all types. And they say Armenia is not fee?!?!?! Politically, Armenia is actually a lot freer than the United States! Of course I say this with much regret.

Nevertheless, against all odds, our landlocked and blockaded republic in the Caucasus has been developing more-or-less FREE of the corrosive effects of the Anglo-American-Zionist global order and their regional Turkic allies. This is essentially the reason why Armenia has been blacklisted by the Western alliance and this is the reason why a slew of Western agents currently saturate Armenia's political landscape.

To summarize, the following are seven information points about agent Richard Giragosian:

1) He is half-Armenian (Armenian father, English mother)

2) He is said to have a military-intelligence background in America and a civilian rank that is said to be equal to a lieutenant colonel in the military

3) He was married to an Algerian woman and converted to Islam - the conversion to Islam was most likely staged and was intended to enable him to penetrate Islamic communities

4) He speaks English, Arabic, French and some Armenian

5) He was transferred to Armenia to start a "think tank" and begin working against Armenia's political orientation towards Russia

6) He is a close associate of Raffi Hovannisian

7) He is also well connected to the Armenian Assembly of America

The following are edited segments of the letter I received from a cyberian friend several years ago:
Richard Giragosian was married to an Algerian woman (since divorced and now married to a Yerevansti) and "converted" (I don't think he was serious about it) to Islam at his wife's families request. Also, he learned to speak Arabic. This helped his career immensely after 911 because he was an insider in the Islamic community who could gather info for the US government.
He has a civilian rank equal to the military rank of lieutenant colonel and has gone through military training (such as airborne school) with US Army special forces.
He is half Armenian on his father's side. I don't know his mother's lineage, but I could probably find out. Anyway, I believe his Armenian step-mother had more of an influence on his life than his real mother. He also speaks French.
With all that said, it is obvious that he is a US agent, but I hope he is not using his position in ways that hurt Armenia (knowingly or unknowingly). Anyway, I am telling you all of this because Richard should have nothing to hide. If he is truly working for Armenia's interest and aims to be in the public eye, his dealings should be transparent and he should be held accountable for his actions for better or for worse. All in all, on a personal level, I like Richard...but I only know him as an acquaintance. I have now been conditioned to look at him with suspicion.

Anonymous

I wouldn't say Vartan Oskanian is a Western agent. He was a rather good FM under Kocharian I believe. But I agree that the West is actively trying to put a different regime in Armenia, because of one reason. Energy. Armenia stands in the way of their precious energy projects between Azerbaijan and Turkey. That is why they were so happy with the normalisation process with Turkey. They care about that energy, not Armenia, everyone should know this. They could care less about democracy in Armenia. If they did, they would not support continuously the worlds most oppressive regimes (Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan, Mubarak's Egypt, etc). We should all know the alternative. It's either being allies with Christian Russia (and Iran), or submitting to Turkish/Zionist interests, which pretty much would mark the end of Armenia. We need to be on the side that is anti-Turkish, it's as simple as that. We need to form a stronger axis with Cyprus, Serbia, and Greece, all of which have also close ties with Russia.

When it comes to this guy Girgosian, he's just a Western tool like idiot Raffi Hovannisian. I don't think it's worth using his personal life against him (whom he married, his background) but his connections in his career are important of course.

[Armanen]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

I wouldn't say Vartan Oskanian is a Western agent. He was a rather good FM under Kocharian I believe. But I agree that the West is actively trying to put a different regime in Armenia, because of one reason. Energy. Armenia stands in the way of their precious energy projects between Azerbaijan and Turkey. That is why they were so happy with the normalisation process with Turkey. They care about that energy, not Armenia, everyone should know this. They could care less about democracy in Armenia. If they did, they would not support continuously the worlds most oppressive regimes (Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan, Mubarak's Egypt, etc). We should all know the alternative. It's either being allies with Christian Russia (and Iran), or submitting to Turkish/Zionist interests, which pretty much would mark the end of Armenia. We need to be on the side that is anti-Turkish, it's as simple as that. We need to form a stronger axis with Cyprus, Serbia, and Greece, all of which have also close ties with Russia.

When it comes to this guy Girgosian, he's just a Western tool like idiot Raffi Hovannisian. I don't think it's worth using his personal life against him (whom he married, his background) but his connections in his career are important of course.

The choices a person makes in his personal life are a very good indicator of his character, and from character one can more easily judge what the person in question will do given a situation. So in Giragosian's case, his personal life is important to make note of and can help show his anti-Armenian bias. Make no mistake about it, he is an agent of influence.

[Vrej1915]

Wishfull thinking....... let the dream!

Armenians fear losing important source of water in negotiations over future of the territory.
By Karine Ohanyan - Caucasus
CRS Issue 559,
17 Sep 10
The Armenian residents of the town they call Karvachar boast of the quality and quantity of their water.

http://iwpr.net/report-news/water-complicates-karabakh-peace-talks

“We have the most delicious and cleanest water. It does not need filtering. You can drink it straight from the river. Apart from this, in Karvachar, unlike in many regions and towns of Karabakh, the water comes round-the-clock,” said Alexander Kananyan, who has lived in the town for nine years.

And their water is valued beyond the town. Nagorny Karabakh, a state carved out of Soviet Azerbaijan by local Armenians, relies on this region for more than 80 per cent of its drinking supply.

The trouble, however, is that Karvachar has another name: Kelbajar, by which it is known to ethnic Azeris, as well as on maps of the region from Soviet times and before. Unlike most of Karabakh, the town did not form part of the Autonomous Region of Nagorny Karabakh within Soviet Azerbaijan, and that means it is treated separately in peace talks currently going on.

Therefore, experts say that if Baku gets its way, the town will be returned to its control whatever the fate of Karabakh, which has declared independence but not been recognised as an independent state by any members of the United Nations.

"The peace deal currently under discussion, like almost all others, envisages the return of almost all the seven Azerbaijani regions which are now wholly or partially under Armenian military control in exchange for some kind of 'interim international status' for Nagorny Karabakh itself and the promise of a popular vote in the future on its final status,” said Thomas de Waal, an expert on Caucasus issues at the Carnegie Endowment’s Russia and Eurasia Programme.

“There will be a special status for Lachin, which is the land bridge between Armenia and Nagorny Karabakh and it is anticipated that Kelbajar, the largest Azerbaijan region under Armenian control, which is strategically situated between Armenia and Nagorny Karabakh, will be handed back later than the other provinces.”

But Karabakh Armenians insist even that is unacceptable. Leaving aside the fact that under its constitution, the republic claims all territory that it currently controls, not just the territory of the Soviet-era Autonomous Region, they see the district between Karabakh and Armenia as crucial to their security.

“The territory of Karabakh within the administrative border of the Autonomous Region is extremely vulnerable from the point of view of securing its water resources. The lion’s share of water resources in the former Autonomous Region has its origin outside of its administrative limits. The rivers Terter and Khachen, which start within the Karvachar region, bring in 83.4 per cent of the yearly average of Karabakh’s main water supply,” said David Babayan, who has studied water issues in Karabakh for several years.

“Today, Nagorny Karabakh is in a position to almost entirely provide for its own environmental security and its water resources, and in this context the Karvachar region plays a key role… Therefore, if we lose this region the water security of Karabakh would be under serious threat.”

Most of the present-day residents of the town and its neighbouring region are ethnic Armenians who fled areas currently controlled by Azeri troops during the Karabakh war, which ended with a ceasefire in 1994 but which has not been resolved.

Peace talks are chaired by France, Russia and the United States, who make up the so-called Minsk Group, but have not moved forward significantly in the face of irreconcilable differences between the two sides.

Azerbaijan insists on regaining control of the territory it lost but local residents like Marianna Hovsepyan, who moved to the town from Sumgait, the scene of three days of anti-Armenian riots in 1988 that marked the start of major bloodshed between the two ethnic communities, are adamant they would never allow that to happen.

“How could you even consider it,” she asked. “We with difficulty built here a second house, got our lives together, and now it’s not clear what’s waiting for us. This will never happen. Even when Karabakh president Bako Sahakyan came to Karvachar, he said, ‘As long as Karabakh exists and I want to assure you all that it will always exist, Karvachar will be part of it.’”

Local residents well understand the importance of their town to the future of the whole South Caucasus.

“Of course, the region has a strategic significance, because water is an important resource of the future, and not just of the present day. In worsening environmental conditions in the future, it will be a necessary and expensive resource,” said Alexander Kananyan, a 36-year-old a local resident.

“And of course, I’m not even talking about the military-strategic significance of the Karvachar region. This it the highest and most invulnerable part of Karabakh, and as a result whoever owns it, owns all of Karabakh.”

Karine Ohanyan is a freelance journalist in Stepanakert.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Wishfull thinking....... let the dream!

Armenians fear losing important source of water in negotiations over future of the territory.
By Karine Ohanyan - Caucasus
CRS Issue 559,
17 Sep 10
The Armenian residents of the town they call Karvachar boast of the quality and quantity of their water.

http://iwpr.net/report-news/water-complicates-karabakh-peace-talks

“We have the most delicious and cleanest water. It does not need filtering. You can drink it straight from the river. Apart from this, in Karvachar, unlike in many regions and towns of Karabakh, the water comes round-the-clock,” said Alexander Kananyan, who has lived in the town for nine years.

And their water is valued beyond the town. Nagorny Karabakh, a state carved out of Soviet Azerbaijan by local Armenians, relies on this region for more than 80 per cent of its drinking supply.

The trouble, however, is that Karvachar has another name: Kelbajar, by which it is known to ethnic Azeris, as well as on maps of the region from Soviet times and before. Unlike most of Karabakh, the town did not form part of the Autonomous Region of Nagorny Karabakh within Soviet Azerbaijan, and that means it is treated separately in peace talks currently going on.

Much of this region, and in particular the area where its water sources have their origin, was part of Soviet Armenia until it was taken from it and made part of the so-called "Red Kurdistan" autonomous region. Most of the territory taken to make Red Kurdistan was taken from the Azerbaijjan Soviet Republic. However, when the region was eventually abolished the bit of its territory that was originally part of the Armenian SSR was not returned to Armenia but was given to Azerbaijan.