Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

[Mukuch]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Mukuch freedom self respect.... mean nothing when your childeren are starving and freezing to death, you talk as if it was you who grew up under candle lites, in freezing conditions, without running water or electricity and the constant war...I can't stand it when people talk like "We have survived and progressed with closed borders and will survive and develop with them closed as long as it is necessary" NO!!!!!~ you have not endured xxxx, it was the population inside armenia that endured it and they do not want to endure it again!We need to think about how we can make our little country a place where people will want to go live instead of flee and this is our single most important issue today because at the rate that our population is being depleted in armenia, there wont be anymore armenians there and more wars and blockades will only make this worst.We are not going to give up kharabagh and if you read the news all the observers like russia and usa told turckey that it cannot be a precondition, we need to chill out and let the nagotiators do their job.

You have no xxxxen idea what you are talking about and with who. Where have you been from 91 to 94 ? In Russia? You are still there. And Yes my daughter was born under candle light in Yerevan when I was not there, I was 400 km to east. It was in 1993. My father had to bring diesel fuel to run the generator in the hospital so my wife would give parts not under candle light...but was late. Yes I wasn’t there. Where I was there I didn’t see you. OK? Now piss off. End of conversation. And don’t come to me with that bullxxxx again... As I say it is question of priorities and values. For you it is peas of bread with cheap Turkish butter for your kids, my values are different….
Now you can chill out and wait untill your governmant sells Karabakh and than what is resting of Armenia....

[Haykakan]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Our relations with Iran are very important and i can only hope they will grow but our relations with russia is far more important, as for isreal you gotta be kidding me, they have opposed genocide recognition and every other thing armenians have tried to do plus they are have been conducting ethnik cleansing for over 50 years now.I do not think the armenian government is going to give in to unreasonable demands without getting anything of similar value back, again we do not know what is going on it is all closed doors nagotiations. Any way you look at armenias situation no russian backing=no armenia period end of story. Armenia simply cannot defend itself against turckey wo russia i don't care how patriotic and fearless we are this is a fact. Mukuch freedom self respect.... mean nothing when your childeren are starving and freezing to death, you talk as if it was you who grew up under candle lites, in freezing conditions, without running water or electricity and the constant war...I can't stand it when people talk like "We have survived and progressed with closed borders and will survive and develop with them closed as long as it is necessary" NO!!!!!~ you have not endured xxxx, it was the population inside armenia that endured it and they do not want to endure it again!We need to think about how we can make our little country a place where people will want to go live instead of flee and this is our single most important issue today because at the rate that our population is being depleted in armenia, there wont be anymore armenians there and more wars and blockades will only make this worst.We are not going to give up kharabagh and if you read the news all the observers like russia and usa told turckey that it cannot be a precondition, we need to chill out and let the nagotiators do their job.

[hipeter924]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Until this opening the borders bit and since Erdogan going to Russia several times, then Russia along with the US started pushing Armenia to opening the borders and conceding to the turks who imposed onto Serzh with preconditions instead of us giving them preconditions; I would have welcomed Russia to continue to be our big brother against our enemies left and right, but now that Russia and the US alongside turkey who have pushed serzh to forget the Genocide recognition and have Armenia sign the illegal Kars treaty; I am not with Russia and certainly not with the US either. Those two don't know our sacred cause, they don't care what we went through with our enemies throughout one thousand years and what is or isn't very important to us. Yes we can play politics with Russia and the US; but NOT to concede to our very important sacred cause.

Our lands are very important to us Armenians, that's it end of story.

Personally I think Armenia is better pushing relations with Iran and Israel. Though Israel is kinda Turkey leaning, even it admits it only denies the genocide because it wants a friendship with Turkey.

But times are changing and Turkey is spouting anti-Zionist sentiment, it won't be too long...maybe ten years or so till the relationship collapses, even now some Israel think tank groups are urging genocide recognition and a better relationship with Armenia.

So I think given the choice they would choose a Christian Armenia over a Muslim nationalist Turkey in the long run, also Israel has interests in Georgia...why not support a Christian Armenia too? After all its right next door.

Personally I think Russia will eventually side with Turkey and Azeri's, it would be a good time to look for new friends...perhaps Israel. Iran is the best bet right now though. If you side enough with Iran I am sure that Azeri's and Turk's will be forced to back off, because Iran has oil reserves Azeri's and Turk's can't hope to match.

[Anoush]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Mukuch you do not need to be smart to realise that armenia is strategicly very important to russia especially with the current situation in georgia.Russia is the only major power which has a shared interest with armenia (mainly its preservation) so it can serve as a military base for russia and be a wedge in panturkisms back.Georgia not only tried to become independent but it tried to completly turn to the usa and abandon russia (join nato, confotational with russia, expelling russians...), it was openly hostile to russia.Hay dat is a part of all of us but it is not all we are, maybe it is all you are but you do not speak for us all.Armenia has to play smart or else there wont be any armenians let alone a armenian question.No one said the world is a fair place and we armenians should know it better then anyone.We need to do what is right for the country and the people we have left so that it will grow and prosper again and endless wars against unrealistic odds is not the answer.The people living in armenia do not want to constantly live in a warzone and under blockade, they will all move out if this does not change and no one can blame them.
kanadahye i think russia didnt just occupy georgia because it did not want a iraq like situation on its hands.Russia is welcomed on the land its soldiers are on today and georgia is suffering a slow death without russia paying for it with their soldiers lives .If this keeps up the georgians themselves will get rid of the usa puppet and russia will have what it wants with minimum bloodshed and expence.

Until this opening the borders bit and since Erdogan going to Russia several times, then Russia along with the US started pushing Armenia to opening the borders and conceding to the turks who imposed onto Serzh with preconditions instead of us giving them preconditions; I would have welcomed Russia to continue to be our big brother against our enemies left and right, but now that Russia and the US alongside turkey who have pushed serzh to forget the Genocide recognition and have Armenia sign the illegal Kars treaty; I am not with Russia and certainly not with the US either. Those two don't know our sacred cause, they don't care what we went through with our enemies throughout one thousand years and what is or isn't very important to us. Yes we can play politics with Russia and the US; but NOT to concede to our very important sacred cause.

Our lands are very important to us Armenians, that's it end of story.

[Anoush]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

I would rather the goods to/from Europe be transported by ship rather than land through Turkey.

I AGREE!!!! I prefer to stay away from Turkey, America and Israel altogether.

[Mukuch]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Mukuch you do not need to be smart to realise that armenia is strategicly very important to russia especially with the current situation in georgia.Russia is the only major power which has a shared interest with armenia (mainly its preservation) so it can serve as a military base for russia and be a wedge in panturkisms back.Georgia not only tried to become independent but it tried to completly turn to the usa and abandon russia (join nato, confotational with russia, expelling russians...), it was openly hostile to russia.Hay dat is a part of all of us but it is not all we are, maybe it is all you are but you do not speak for us all.Armenia has to play smart or else there wont be any armenians let alone a armenian question.No one said the world is a fair place and we armenians should know it better then anyone.We need to do what is right for the country and the people we have left so that it will grow and prosper again and endless wars against unrealistic odds is not the answer.The people living in armenia do not want to constantly live in a warzone and under blockade, they will all move out if this does not change and no one can blame them.
kanadahye i think russia didnt just occupy georgia because it did not want a iraq like situation on its hands.Russia is welcomed on the land its soldiers are on today and georgia is suffering a slow death without russia paying for it with their soldiers lives .If this keeps up the georgians themselves will get rid of the usa puppet and russia will have what it wants with minimum bloodshed and expence.

Yes that all is nice... the issue is the priority; what is the priority: peaceful and abundant life under Russians with some periodical arsskissing jests towards turks. Or life in permanent war zone but with self-respect, maintaining identity, freedom and independents. The turks would advice the first.... so would you and your-licks. The Georgians might be stupid, but they got some self-respect...

[Haykakan]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Mukuch you do not need to be smart to realise that armenia is strategicly very important to russia especially with the current situation in georgia.Russia is the only major power which has a shared interest with armenia (mainly its preservation) so it can serve as a military base for russia and be a wedge in panturkisms back.Georgia not only tried to become independent but it tried to completly turn to the usa and abandon russia (join nato, confotational with russia, expelling russians...), it was openly hostile to russia.Hay dat is a part of all of us but it is not all we are, maybe it is all you are but you do not speak for us all.Armenia has to play smart or else there wont be any armenians let alone a armenian question.No one said the world is a fair place and we armenians should know it better then anyone.We need to do what is right for the country and the people we have left so that it will grow and prosper again and endless wars against unrealistic odds is not the answer.The people living in armenia do not want to constantly live in a warzone and under blockade, they will all move out if this does not change and no one can blame them.
kanadahye i think russia didnt just occupy georgia because it did not want a iraq like situation on its hands.Russia is welcomed on the land its soldiers are on today and georgia is suffering a slow death without russia paying for it with their soldiers lives .If this keeps up the georgians themselves will get rid of the usa puppet and russia will have what it wants with minimum bloodshed and expence.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

These theories may not happen in our (my) lifetime unless something drastic happens but you can bit anything that it will never ever happen if we concede to any of those three preconditions.

Ayo

Unless you're 5-10 yrs away from your deathbed, I'd say we're in for some interesting times to come in the near future. Stick around, grab some popcorn and enjoy the ride.

[Eddo211]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

.....We do not need to change our beliefs but we do need to make realistic goals with the welfare of our people and our homeland in mind.Sure they took our lands but can we get them back? No now we cannot fight the turcks even not in our wetdream scenerios will we beat turckey to get what is rightfully ours. I am not implying we forget about the genocide or getting back our lands but we do need to face reality and do whats best for armenia.

Yea but at what cost. Turkey wants preconditions………….I say Armenia must have preconditions not Turkey. They closed the borders for their Azeri cousins that caused a lot of pain and suffering for the Armenians and now they want us to give them something (several things in fact) so they open it? Turkish trap. Screw them if you ask me.
I am not in Armenia (that is why I voted probably not) but anybody can see what they are trying to do. They want to increase Pressure on Armenia year after year so they will finally make our government concede to their demands. They themselves mostly don’t care for the border opening unless they get something big for it. They are counting on exactly what you suggest.
Russia and the West have their own agendas and really don’t care about our problems as long as it doesn’t become their problem. Armenian Government needs to take a hardliner approach to this situation.


Never give up on what is rightfully yours……………there are many ways to skin a cat (strategy) and for us Armenians nothing ever comes easy.

In my opinion (don't ask for details)
Militarily the road to one day liberate our lands is through Baku.
Politically the road to one day liberate our lands is through weakening US and Israeli support of Turkey.

These theories may not happen in our (my) lifetime unless something drastic happens but you can bit anything that it will never ever happen if we concede to any of those three preconditions.

Ayo

[Mukuch]

Re: Vote now: Armenia-diaspora-turkey relations

Sure but armenia has no opening to the sea we are landlocked.Georgia is our only opening and they are unreliable and sometimes hostile to us.As i said before there is a larger picture here, russia wants to isolate georgia without hurting us too much.

LOL, yah all Russia cares is Armenia…don’t be ridiculous….. For Russia Armenia is just another province of Great Russian empire just like Georgia. And not very important one…. The difference is that Georgians try to become independent....