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Armenia: A Second Israel

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  • #31
    Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

    hi londontsi,
    among all the outragouse claims and plans where I suggested the fall of an independant state you only grabed the populating of Ajaria? Anyway you are perfectly right about populating Ajaria and even uniting Djavakhk with Armenia and Russia advancing southwards. This is just an idea or somekind of a premative plan not all ideas can me implemented but its through brain storming something can be found and in the end we ae just discussing here.

    If your numbers are taken to be acurate we can see that Tukish population in Turkey have grown 7 times whereas Armenian population have grown 4.67 times well if you look at it its not that far off bearing in mind that Armenians had more harship after the Armenian Genocide than Turks it more difficult to increase in numbers in foreign counties than your own. Not to forgeth the "tsulum" factor if someone lives outside of his homeland. Did you know poland had huge Armenian population in the past where are they now? Either they megrated to another country or more important lost their identity. Moreover we shouldn't forget the factor of Soviet Union where again many Armenians were killed were exiled to Siberia its not the same as having an independant country with GREAT geographical location and in the end don't forget about World War 2 where Armenains gave 300,000 (10% of the Armenian population then) victims to the war fighting against Germany whereas Turkey didn't take part in the war.

    Now for the sake of the discussion I want to take this one step forward.

    In my opinon if we give Armenians a suitable enviroment they will get more in numbers now we can see in advanced countries the population actually is declining because of so many factors i don't want to talk about now this may happen in Armenia too even if we make the socioeconomic situation better in Armenia people now are just giving birth to 2 children in average but I think in case of Armenians if we put some kind of finential help or reward we can imporve the birth rates and if we have enough money as a nation even though bizzare and unthinkable we can manage to populate Ajaria but the first step in all this is the money how to make the whole Nation ritch cherity? I have already said i don't believe in it. we have been trying cahrity till now All Armenian fund this year collected I donno 17 mill or less? if we add all the charity organisations all together how much money are they sending to Armenia? 300 mill max? (I think Im still being genurouse) so if we continue like this we won't get to anyplace or we atchieve a little.

    In my opinon WE MUST FIND ANOTHER WAY MORE EFFICIENT WAY TO MAKE MONEY AS A NATION. hOW? i have talked bout this befor i had a few replies by Haykakan who dismissed the idea. I want to repeat it beacause I believe its the only way to get stronger. Bear in mind Im basing my observations and formulas based on Lebanon becasue I live there and I see and know what is happening over here maybe based on your experiances in your countries you can change and imporve the idea.

    I donno if you all know, there is something called "azkayin durk" meaning "national Tax" collected by the church or "azkayin Arachnortaran" in the diaspora it is around 30$ a year to all adults. recently I have asked many people and talked to priests where does this money go if there is a booklet printed every year that shows and talks about the spending of the money, the asnwer was no there is no booklet no one could know exactly where this money goes and according to the Lebanese society corruption is a common thing in this case (let me tell little you understand more) by the way NO ONE pays this tax on time or very few pay it on time this tax accumulates till the day you want to get married or baptise your child etc by the church and in this occation you pay all the amount that you have acumulatd through the years.

    Frist of all we must make the population willing to pay this tax but to do so the minimume thing required is trancparency show where is the money going to all of the populkation and let them see that the money isn't going in vain.

    The other question is how to use this money? in Lebanon if we say ther are 50000 Armenians who pay this taxt every year this means we have 1.5 mill USD income every year in my opinon this is nothing to be proud of but this is a lot to start with my idea is investment. Starting businesses in Lebanon creating jobs for Armenians here starthing with small steps opening companies with this capital and thinking only to make money to make the capital larger do not forget every year 1.5 mill USD income we will have through the taxes and [plus the revvenues through the businesses in 10 to 15 years we will have around 100 and 200 millon USD capital we will have a comunity that has more job oportunities and will not leave Lebanon and will get stronger in the mean times from this 100 or 200 mill we can send more money to Armenia and unlike charity this will be constant income.

    moreover imagine if we can do such a thig all aroung the world in US Russia where we have bigger comunities and its just then we will exploit the full potential of the Diaspora who will be more efficient in helping Armenia to get stronger.
    Last edited by Hye; 12-15-2009, 12:58 PM.


    • #32
      Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

      Hye, please use more spaces between your paragraphs, it hurts my eyes trying to read what you wrote.
      For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
      to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.


      • #33
        Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

        Sure Armanen you are right i just edited it I hope its much better now
        thank you


        • #34
          Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

          Originally posted by Hye View Post
          hi londontsi,
          among all the outragouse claims and plans where I suggested the fall of an independant state you only grabed the populating of Ajaria? Anyway you are perfectly right about populating Ajaria and even uniting Djavakhk with Armenia and Russia advancing southwards. This is just an idea or somekind of a premative plan not all ideas can me implemented but its through brain storming something can be found and in the end we ae just discussing here.

          Now you make sense !!
          Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
          Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
          Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests


          • #35
            Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

            That's better, thank you!
            For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
            to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



            • #36
              Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

              I like your ideas but the problems I see is that we are not coordinated and we lack strong leadership that could spearhead this while maintaining a complete transparency with no corruption producing positive results that people can see and feel good about year after year all the while being able to unite Diasporan communities around the world under one banner and one cause with all our differences and inherent faults.
              B0zkurt Hunter


              • #37
                Re: Armenia: A Second Israel


                I'm glad you like my ideas and the problem you mentions unfortunately is very true and its very disapointing. but whose fault is we have no competant leadership nor trancparency that can produce positive result? Who is putting cracks among Armenians? whos's to blame if we keep on fighting and arguing on evey single stupid thing and we don't sieze the chance to get better? The Turks? The Azeris? Russia? USA? The damn English or French? Maybe I really suffer from VERBAL DIARREHEA and I can't shut the F*** up but how can I shut up if I see all this around me CAN ANYONE HONESTLY REFUTE THE THINGS IM SAYING? LOOK AROUND YOU AND BE HONEST WITH YOURSELVES.

                thank you Eddo for this reply now maybe people will undrestand what I was trying to say better. but I want to ask you why shouldn't we be united? why shouldn't we find worthy leadership? Why shouldn't we stop the corruption within us? We talk about how corrupt the government of Armenia is Diasporans (I'm among them) are you less corrupt? I gave an idea in a forum to discuss and imporove only one person replied to tell me it's impossible because we are ARMENIANS. We are dreaming of ONE day maybe ONE day leberating our historical homeland for God sake what are we doing to be prepared for that day? I gave a small premetive plane to somehow reach the black sea and I was criticised yes you all are right its an almost impossible thing to atchieve but i wana ask which one is more possible to liberate western Armenia and reach the sea or to liberate Djavakhk populate Ajaria (2,900 sqKm with 376000 population)?

                Eddo for now i'm not talking about united comunities around the world.

                Let's first of all find a way to channel this money to something useful in investments that will make more money in seperate comumities or countiries i'm not talking about big organisations yet though in the future establishing such bodies that would unite the efforts are essential for more efficiency.

                second of all lets make the people know what is going on with their tax money let them feel they are benifiting because i believe our people want to help the nation and Armenia and i'm sure when we ensure everything is being done correct all of them will pay the tax with no delay. I believe in this I believe we can improve ourselves but first we must know our faults plan 2 correct them and work in that direction

                Just imagine with this kind of organisation how much political influence you would have in your own country? the organisation would back indevidial talented Armenians in major local parties and help them reach to the top and here we will benifit the most. In this case we could have collars around necks of lions

                Let me tell you in Lebanon it is VERY easy to be a national leador or "Zaim" as we call you jsut need money. Since the populatin is already poor, in the dawn of elections they "serve" the people a little bit with medical help governmental help during elactions you destribute some food here some money their and guess what you are in the parliament and people love you although you know nothing about politics what so ever.

                I want to end on a possitive note i donno if you agree. Let's look at all Armenian fund as far as I know they are working in trancpancy so this means that we can do it if we want so my idea is let's use this trancparency but find more efficient way to collect money first to make it into worthy capital and help Armenia.


                • #38
                  Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

                  Hye, what you are saying about collecting money seems logical. But by sending money to Armenia things won't change much. First of all, the people of the Republic of Armenia must get rid of their corrupt goverment and abolish the monopoly system there. Second, and most important, the most powerful weapon in the world is the MIND(High Education). We are good at that, we have many scientists, artists, doctors, inventors, and many other people that have reached high places! By combining all of them together, we can collaborate and work much easily. The political parties have their role in the armenian life, but they cannot acheive much. We must count on the Armenians who have reached high places in life. There we have Power! We can gather all kinds of information about everything, including our enemy(ies). Think about it...
                  Նայիր Ինչպիսին է Բնութիւնը՝ այնպիսին են մարդիկ Ղ. Ալիշան


                  • #39
                    Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

                    btw, I am an Armenian from Lebanon too. By comparing Lebanon to Armenia, we would be making a big mistake. Lebanon is whole different story and not part of this topic.
                    Նայիր Ինչպիսին է Բնութիւնը՝ այնպիսին են մարդիկ Ղ. Ալիշան


                    • #40
                      Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

                      hello my fellow lipananahye Suedia good to know by the way what does your name mean?
                      To the discussion.
                      First I want to say that im not compareing Armenia to Lebanon at all i know it's completely differnt situation and God forbid Armenia become like lebanon. What i mean is that before Armenia judging blindly (and i mean by this mostly by those who critisize Armenia for the sake of it) let's look at the Armenian Diaspora again i want to concentrate on the middle east because i live here and know better i donno what is going on in Europe or USA or Russia. Here all of our organisations are filled with corruption people serving their small tight intrsts than thr cimunity fighting each other noone knows where the money goes to wrong people in worng places let's set an example to Armenia and then judge them and guide and demand from them.

                      You are perfectly right about mind being strong weapon and highr education one of the most important things ever. But let me ask you jow will those scientists, doctors, inventors work without funding? Armenia has no lack of intelectual mind but lacks of money to fund these people to invent to create to give high wages to stay in Armenia that's why they go to another country and shine.

                      Moreover I donno if you are in uni or graduated do you know how expensive higher education is? specially if you wana go to a big uni don't you want funding for that? Im not saying money is the first and last thing we need but money is the basic thing we need others will come little by little.

                      If the Armenian governemtn will remain corrupt then no one would send direct funds to the government but this organisation will invest in the Armenian ecconomy build roads infrastructure, whole villages, restoration ... just like the Armenian fund and other charity organisations are doing now until we'll have a good governemnt. By the way reducing the corruption is very hard work needs will and determination because corruption in Armenia is in the peoples blood Soviet union has had it's toll for so long but it shoudl be reduced ina way or another