Armenia: A Second Israel

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

ok Hye, ourakh em

[Hye]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Sorry anush I don't mean to offnd anyone please read again and try to understand me I don't want to argue actually I am not but please lets listen to each other and see what the other has to say. Please don't dissmiss me or anyone so fast in the end we both belong to the same azk menk polors hay azki zavagnern enk nuynisg yete chenk hamatsynir betche irarme kennal gneres yete viravoretsi kez payts havada yes antsnagam pan chsi voreve aden yes protocoli masin chem khosir gor. yete menk miyasin grnank avelin @nel yev HAVADA GRNANK SHAD AVELIN @NEL yev chenk @ner ays gam ayn baddjarnerov ays indzi hamar tavadjanutyun e hayutyan polor zavagnerun goghme MECH@ @LLALOV YES yes kezme chem agngaler hamatsaynis heds ghasgnam irav payts mdadze @sadznerus masin yev asdvadz da mer polor nbadagnerun ghasnink miyasin
Suedia don't worry I don't want to argue I respect all opinons here I hate seing Armenians arguing fighting disliking each other all what Im saying is what i see and i say it out of love to my nation out of belief that we can be better and stronger for example in a school who gets more chritisised a student that has the ability and doesn't learn or a student that has no ability? WE HVAVE THE POTENTIAL WE MUST DO MUCH MORE

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hye,

seems that i an talking to myself also. We understand well each other.
About north america/china that is another topic. let us focus on Armenia for the moment.

[Hye]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Suedia,
I can't agree more with you its like Im almost talking to myself.

about black sea I know what you mean I got it and you are totally right and what Im suggesting and saying in order to be stronger we MUST have a border on black sea its a must its the minimume requirement so this step should be considered as national intrest of Armenia and in order to atchieve this steps should be taken plans should be put we should put effort do something.
about Armenian Genocide YOU CAN'T BE MORE RIGHT agree with you more 110%
we must become strong power and what I suggest and always do its time to sit on a table and plan then plan then plan put our national intrests straight put our actions straight talk discuss and come up with a plan for the future.
about the protocol i don't wanna talk and argue about it i think we did a lot i myself did a lot I even took part in radio station debate over here.
if Russia falls even if we control russia Armenia will be no more you said it yourself even be a lion or have a collar around a lion BUT if we are not a lion and have a collar around a lion and suddenly this lion is dead what can you do? but still as I said will always say and repeat WE MUST PLAN FOR THE FUTURE WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BE MUCH BETTER THAN WE ARE NOW BUT WE ARE SLEEPING AND ANOUSH THIS "SLEEPING" FOR ME IS TREASON TOWARDS OUR NATION NOT THE PROTOCOL OR ANYTHING.
about north america: sorry we are getig off topic if you want we won't talk about it but let me tell you China is a good choice to pick the next supper power but china has a huge problem we if you look at chinese history there is a certain cycle always repeating itself. when you look at china now its more open to the world and getting more and more open and you see chinese economy growing and prospering but if you look at the country there is huge difference between coastal population and the population that lives deep in china the coastal ones are very rich due to trade with the outside world the inner population is in poverty it is matter of time reballions will start in china because of this situation where the coastal populatio will want more freedon to get richer and the rual population to get out of poverty so the central governemnt in order to keep control it will stablish a military law and defeat both rebalions and will strengthen the cenral government and close the country to itself if you look at the chinese history this has been repeating over and over again the last time China closed to itself was Mau and now its getting more open and open in the future because of this difference in classes among the population chinal will also close and fall besides china is like an isolated island geographically because it is surrounded by vast mountain chains isolating it from the rest of the world it is very hard to get military influnece outside of its border there is only small portion of fields it has on the Kazakhstans border anyway enoug of China.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Anoush and Hye, for the last time stop arguing in the wrong thread!

[Anoush]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hye, I know that from now on don't address me and I will see to it that I stay away from you. Yes from your post I am offended, at least for now.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hye,
I am not saying to take up arms and conquer the black sea. That is impossible for the moment for Armenia. I said it WOULD HAVE been better if we had border with the black sea.

The Armenian Genocide should not be the primary goal of Armenians: yes
The Armenian Genocide should be completely ignored: NO! We will keep the world awake, always talking about the Genocide. Even if countries won't recognize it, we have nothing to lose in it.

Our primary goal, as you said, is to strengthen the current Republic of Armenia, and have a pro-Armenian stance, on the condition that we become more powerful than Turkey. Without power, we have nothing! With power, we control everyhting.

About North America: Every Superpower rises and falls, look at Rome, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire, Assyrian Empire etc. One day the USA will fall too. Most probably the newer superpower would be China. And about that, we(Armenia) would gain alot if we strengthen our relations with the Chinese.

About the protocols, I am not against them AS LONG AS they will not weaken Armenia, because according to what i see, there are points in it that are more Pro-Turkish than Pro-Armenian...

Yes if Russia falls, there will be no more Armenia... But, what if Armenia became the one controlling Russia? They would always work for our favor. Just like how Israel controls the USA...

We should either become a Lion, or have a collar around a Lion!

[Hye]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

anoush jan you undesrtood me wrong Im calling all of us traitors including myself because we haven't raised to the chalanges that are against us and not calling you or anyone for protocol or anything Im just in pain because of how low Armenians have sank we have huge potential and yet we remain such please don't get offended Im not directing my accusations to you personally but to Armenians in general based on what I see around me and believe me its painfull it because of my deep sorrow I say such. As for lebanon the comunity is suffering finentiall and intelectually. people with some money take positions in parties organisations and make it their own playground traditional parties argue on smallest stupidest of things and don't see the truth leaders care about their positions more than what they should do and the comunity suffers. yes Armenians have been the leaders in Lebanon but now Im afraid its not like that

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Anoush and Hye, this is no place to start an argument that will get you two nowhere. You can argue in another thread. I would like to remind us of another thing very common in us Armenians: We are a little too much over-emotional. We must not look at our country subjectively, but objectively, get serious, start to find logical and realistic ways to help the homeland. So please both of you, don't start an argument mixed with emotions. Get serious.

[Hye]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Suedia,
When you are working there is always priorities. There are primary goals secondary goals and so on in my opinon the Genocide recognition is not primary goal right now I don't wana get into details for me Armenian survival, Artsakh survival and why not union with Armenia and even Djavakhk uniion to Armenia is much important to me than Genocide recognition im not saying we should forget and move one hell no Im just saying we should not concentrate on it and make it our priorty. you said VERY VERY VERY important thing in your post Armenia would have been better if we had sea. So what does this mean? it means our national stratagy and intrest and goal for the future should be to reaching to the black sea how? this needs ALOT of discussion planing. is it atchievable logically no but let me ask was it logical in 1980 the fall of USSR? leberation of Artsakh? people whould have laughed at you in 1920 when you tld them Germany will counqure France in 1939 anyway if this (stablishing border with black sea) is the critical turnover for our modern history then we must do EVERYTHING possible to atchieve we hsould set targets put plans steps and work in that way this is how it works and not what we are doing now we are like a paper in the wind. MAYBE at a point in time it will be in our intrest to get close to the Turks my point is in this case we should take this step we should be pro Armenian think of our intrest and goals first and formost. look at the Turks in the beginning of the 20th century they made alliance with Bolsheviks two ARCH rivals historically and at that time .... did Bolsheviks ever stop dreaming of reaching to the meditearenian through Turkey? NO did the Turks ever forget taking Caucasus and reaching to central Asia? NO but they colleborated and they established themselves as poweres in the region.
I would like to point out that in the upcoming centuries NO SUPERPOWER will emerge that is not located geograohically in NORTH AMERICA so don't worry about that because of 2 main reasons passific ocean and attlantic ocean who controls them militerily controls the world and since Noth America has border with both its easier for it to control the oceans and also the world just like Europeans controled the Atalantic and becamse superpower in the past. So presently the USA's and in the future maybe Canda's or most probably MEXICO's national intrest is to disturb any nation into becoming a power to chalange their right to rule just like USA is doing is the middle east right now you thikn they are losing in Afghanistan or Iraq? HELL NO they are wining coz no power will emerge in Eurasia that will chalange USA in this situation. sorry I got little offtopic but anyway.
but this all doesn't mean that Turkey doesn't have embition to reach central Asia to the point it doesn't treat USA's rule as a supreme power. And Turkey in its activity now is emerging as a presentor of the majory of the muslem world more and more. BUT as long as Russia is standing on its feet and is strong enoug Turkey will not expand to the Caucasus and central Asia if Russia falls there is NO Armenia left and this is my biggest concern USA will not be against Turkish expansion to the east as long as its not treatening USA control and Turkey would be so causiouse not to Russia will be weak if it falls (and don't be so surprised in the end we are talking about a nation who fell 2 times in one century whats holding for another revolution or I donno what?) and WE are still stuck in the past calling each other traitors or I donno what?
As for Armenia being attached to Russia, I wanna say that we sometimes overestimate Armenias abilities right now yeah no one wants to be Russia or anyones puppet but we have no choice.
And if you want my opinon on how we can stablish strong Armenia we can talk about it with pleasure.