Armenia: A Second Israel

[Anoush]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hi anoush and Sueida
I think every person has a pain in his/her heart that however he/she tries to forget or get away from keeps on hurting and doesn't go away my pain is my motherland and Armenians an an entity as a whole i have talk argues ALOT about what I will say next please take time read and share opinons and try to understand what im saying hoping I could explaine well I have opned a tread in this forum about this issue but only few had replied i swear not to talk about it again but i can't because ...
Anoush jan all you have mention is very beautiful. iin one word we all want better strong powerful Armenia. I agree with all of what you wrote but we all must look at the GRAVE situation realistically critically from now on. I have said and will say again PEOPLE OUR BACKS TO THE WALL if we don't wake up we would be writing the LAST pages of our history. what you are saying Im with them support them but they are vague preyers and whishes that we write peoms and songs we hear from Armenian channel from TV just words with o concrete stps or plans or anything.
Goals:
Today Armenians MUST have ONE AND ONLY ONE TRUE goal and it is ENSURING THE PHYSICAL SURVIVAL OF THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA 42000 SQUARE KM (artsakh included for me it is Armenia). full stop all other issues come far second if not third INCLUDING ARMENIAN GENOCIDE RECOGNITION including teraching the dispora Armenia preserving armenian traditions or i donno what these ARE important but no as important as the survival of Armenia and we ALL must sacrifice for this perpouse.
the second important issue id Djavakhk for me because it is a piece of Armenian land bordering Armenia but its outside Armenian border.
I don't want to list the Armenian nationak goals now these are the most the first 2 iomportant ones for me.
Anoush jan you say that we should gain influence in our own countries meaning we should be united block of votes and help certain people to reachj to congress and let them surve our goals and in the mean time you say we should repatriate how? if you leave US and go to Amenia then the Armenian comunity in US will get weaker. my IDEA is we should work such that Armenian from US remains in US and influence and do his/her obligations towards Armenia but not repatriate and let the Armenian in Armenia stay in Armenia (ofcourse by creating the right enviroment to do so) and strengthen Armenia we can't affort to lose Armenia nor we can affort to lose the Diaspora.
you have written very BEAUTIFULL and true to its bones quote by charents in your signiture our strenth is in our unity. so if we wanna build strong Armenia Armenian as whole should get wealthier and help each other. I don't believe in charity nor in volanteers these are things that come and go no one cangarantee that it both will remain but the situation is so grave that we can't affort to depend these. WE ALL ARE OBLIGED TO STRENGTHEN ARMENIA it is our duty we must realise this. moreover how can I help you for example when I for one need the help when I for one am on my knees? do you know what grave situation there is in the middle east? i know Armenia needs our help but how can you ask help or patriotism from an Armenian family in Lebanon or Syria or jordan if they don't have bread to eat? i live in Lebanon my father is in Churches "taghagan khorhurt" I have worked in many organisations believe me its so bad the situation how can you ask them to serve when they need help? Im sick and tired of hearing the same old STUPID so called "traditional Party" Arguments hnchag tashnag Im sick and tired of paying national tax "azgayin durk" to the church arachnortaran and not knowing where the hell is this money going? Im sick and tired of hereing people talkinmg about unity when we are hating each other im sick and tired of seeing IDOITS imeciles in high positions. Im sick and tired of comemorating the black genocide when Armenia is living the white one. Im sick and tired of people arguing that there is no Armenian pure calture left in Lebanon that Armenians are going to foreign schools when there is NO ARMENIAN LEFT IN LEBANON. just look at our histroy its the same old arguments same old problems WHEN WILL WE WAKE UPPPPPPPPP? we still throw the word traitor left and right in history and present days and we can't see that the bigest traitors of our nation are us. IS THERE A SELFRESPECTING NATION IN THE WORLD WHO SAYS I HAVE NO PROBLEM IF MY COUTRY WAS PART OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION. Im not cretisizing the person who thinks such the hell with it I THINK SUCH Im critisizing the Armenian nation to be soooooooooooooo weak unorganized to allow such. im sick and tired of blidness of Armenians the inabilty to see in the future and even more the ability to act. Poor Armenians you get excited when you collect 17 mil USD by cherity by all Armenian fund this is a TRAGEDY for me ARE WE BUILDING A NATION WITH THIS? ARE WE BULDING TWOOOOOOOOOOOOO INDEPENDANT STATES WITH THIS I DONNO SHOULD I CRY OR LAUGH. If we continue om this path believe me we are in the end of our road history doesn't have mercy many people came and went we will be one of them.
Im sorry if i offended anyone I didn't mean it.

You are saying that there are no Armenians left in Lebanon? I thought that there are still at least 50-80,000 Armenians left in Lebanon. However, I didn't know that a good deal of them are poor. Armenians are always entrepreneurs, and I am guessing now that the long war brought them down to the poorhouses or their knees as you put it; at least to the 50 percent of the population. I am saddened that a good deal of them are poor now.

Hye what are you saying? Why are you calling us traitors? How dare you say such a stupid thing. If in the past I called Sargsyan a traitor it is because he submitted to turkey with the protocols and with it his submission to turkey. I was justified and I am leaving it at that. Now I am going to call you both a liar and a traitor for calling me and my brothers in here traitors when we are the opposite.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Another thing i would like to tell: the Republic of Armenia is becoming a little too attached to the Russian FEderation. If this continues gradually, we would become completely their puppets.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hye,

You are saying golden words. I didn't know that a Lebanese-Armenian could think like this (no offense). All what i've heard of leb-Armenians is that they are well stuck to their traditionl parties, and that they are ultra-nationalist. However, that's not the point. What you are saying about strengthening Armenia is 100% what I'm saying. And yes, for me too Artsakh is part of Armenia. That should be our main goal.

Now, About the Armenian Genocide, I am not saying we should completely forget about it. It is one Armenians' and Armenia's national interests. We cannot completely forget about it. What i'm saying is, we should get stronger positions in the Diaspora in congresses, parliaments, etc etc, and form a United Armenian Diaspora Lobby. Since 1915, the Diaspora is disorganized, as the ugly saying goes "ammen mart ir eshe ge keshe", that's what's happening now in the Diaspora.

Let's get back to our topic: The current Republic of Armenia and Artsakh together(including the liberated territories) are exactly what separate the mongol races from each other. If Armenia falls, then the mongols with unite, create a pan-turanian empire, becoming a huge problem from the West and Russia. Eventually, they will become the world's new superpower. One thing that could have helped Armenia be in better conditions, was if it had a sea... unfortunanetly we have no border with the Black Sea, and we are obliged to obey what our neighbors tell us(in some cases). I feel that the protocols recently signed have more pro-turkish points than pro-armenian, but that's just my point of view.

[Hye]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Eddo211 you can't put constraint on a factor and go on arguing meaning yoyu can't say Israel without its nukes would lose against Turkey coz it doesn't work like that its like saying Turkey without its 70 mill population would lose against Armenia. Israel is strong no because it has a good millitary force or nukes but also it has influence on many countries specialy superpower(s) and donn't undersestimate the Israely will to use its nuclear arcenal in case of Turkish invasion to the point where the Israely existance is at treat Istanbul Ankara and many other major cities will go to the ground and Turkey would fall. Anyway these are just speculations

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Turkey might be strong militarily but it lacks consistency and trust of the international communities where Armenia come out as an honest broker with its influence slowly increasing.

yes this is true, especially nowadays, Armenia is showing the international community that he is an honest broker.

As for the protocols, I am still not sure how will they affect Armenia. These protocols seem to have positive and negative points for Armenia... Armenia is trying to keep the Artsakh issue unrelated to the protocols, while Turkey, as you said, is trying to link it.

[Hye]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Hi anoush and Sueida
I think every person has a pain in his/her heart that however he/she tries to forget or get away from keeps on hurting and doesn't go away my pain is my motherland and Armenians an an entity as a whole i have talk argues ALOT about what I will say next please take time read and share opinons and try to understand what im saying hoping I could explaine well I have opned a tread in this forum about this issue but only few had replied i swear not to talk about it again but i can't because ...
Anoush jan all you have mention is very beautiful. iin one word we all want better strong powerful Armenia. I agree with all of what you wrote but we all must look at the GRAVE situation realistically critically from now on. I have said and will say again PEOPLE OUR BACKS TO THE WALL if we don't wake up we would be writing the LAST pages of our history. what you are saying Im with them support them but they are vague preyers and whishes that we write peoms and songs we hear from Armenian channel from TV just words with o concrete stps or plans or anything.
Goals:
Today Armenians MUST have ONE AND ONLY ONE TRUE goal and it is ENSURING THE PHYSICAL SURVIVAL OF THE REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA 42000 SQUARE KM (artsakh included for me it is Armenia). full stop all other issues come far second if not third INCLUDING ARMENIAN GENOCIDE RECOGNITION including teraching the dispora Armenia preserving armenian traditions or i donno what these ARE important but no as important as the survival of Armenia and we ALL must sacrifice for this perpouse.
the second important issue id Djavakhk for me because it is a piece of Armenian land bordering Armenia but its outside Armenian border.
I don't want to list the Armenian nationak goals now these are the most the first 2 iomportant ones for me.
Anoush jan you say that we should gain influence in our own countries meaning we should be united block of votes and help certain people to reachj to congress and let them surve our goals and in the mean time you say we should repatriate how? if you leave US and go to Amenia then the Armenian comunity in US will get weaker. my IDEA is we should work such that Armenian from US remains in US and influence and do his/her obligations towards Armenia but not repatriate and let the Armenian in Armenia stay in Armenia (ofcourse by creating the right enviroment to do so) and strengthen Armenia we can't affort to lose Armenia nor we can affort to lose the Diaspora.
you have written very BEAUTIFULL and true to its bones quote by charents in your signiture our strenth is in our unity. so if we wanna build strong Armenia Armenian as whole should get wealthier and help each other. I don't believe in charity nor in volanteers these are things that come and go no one cangarantee that it both will remain but the situation is so grave that we can't affort to depend these. WE ALL ARE OBLIGED TO STRENGTHEN ARMENIA it is our duty we must realise this. moreover how can I help you for example when I for one need the help when I for one am on my knees? do you know what grave situation there is in the middle east? i know Armenia needs our help but how can you ask help or patriotism from an Armenian family in Lebanon or Syria or jordan if they don't have bread to eat? i live in Lebanon my father is in Churches "taghagan khorhurt" I have worked in many organisations believe me its so bad the situation how can you ask them to serve when they need help? Im sick and tired of hearing the same old STUPID so called "traditional Party" Arguments hnchag tashnag Im sick and tired of paying national tax "azgayin durk" to the church arachnortaran and not knowing where the hell is this money going? Im sick and tired of hereing people talkinmg about unity when we are hating each other im sick and tired of seeing IDOITS imeciles in high positions. Im sick and tired of comemorating the black genocide when Armenia is living the white one. Im sick and tired of people arguing that there is no Armenian pure calture left in Lebanon that Armenians are going to foreign schools when there is NO ARMENIAN LEFT IN LEBANON. just look at our histroy its the same old arguments same old problems WHEN WILL WE WAKE UPPPPPPPPP? we still throw the word traitor left and right in history and present days and we can't see that the bigest traitors of our nation are us. IS THERE A SELFRESPECTING NATION IN THE WORLD WHO SAYS I HAVE NO PROBLEM IF MY COUTRY WAS PART OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION. Im not cretisizing the person who thinks such the hell with it I THINK SUCH Im critisizing the Armenian nation to be soooooooooooooo weak unorganized to allow such. im sick and tired of blidness of Armenians the inabilty to see in the future and even more the ability to act. Poor Armenians you get excited when you collect 17 mil USD by cherity by all Armenian fund this is a TRAGEDY for me ARE WE BUILDING A NATION WITH THIS? ARE WE BULDING TWOOOOOOOOOOOOO INDEPENDANT STATES WITH THIS I DONNO SHOULD I CRY OR LAUGH. If we continue om this path believe me we are in the end of our road history doesn't have mercy many people came and went we will be one of them.
Im sorry if i offended anyone I didn't mean it.

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Eddo211, yes you are right the turkish armed forces are one of the mightiest armies in the world. I am not comparing turkey to a "Palestinians Rocketeer club". In this case yes, they are more powerful than us on the military level, there's no deniying it. Having a strong influential Armenia is really really difficult. But it is never too late...

Armenia seems to be on the right path for now as far as I can tell. She is increasing her cooperation with important countries, has good chance of becoming an Associated EU member; contributes to NATO without affecting its relationship with Russia, CSTO, and CIS. She plays a balancing act between Russia and the West and looks like the responsible actor in NKR resolution.

We have to see how these protocols will play out though since Turkey still links it to a resolution in Artsakh. Europe has also increased its interest in Armenia since they see our culture more in line with European values.

Turkey might be strong militarily but it lacks consistency and trust of the international communities where Armenia come out as an honest broker with its influence slowly increasing.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Eddo211, yes you are right the turkish armed forces are one of the mightiest armies in the world. I am not comparing turkey to a "Palestinians Rocketeer club". In this case yes, they are more powerful than us on the military level, there's no deniying it. Having a strong influential Armenia is really really difficult. But it is never too late...

[Eddo211]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

Even though I agree with what you say but to compare Turks (#2 military in NATO with the population of 70 Mil nationalists) to Palestinians Rocketeer club would be a mistake.

Israel as strong as it is couldn’t last by herself alone (unless it goes Nuclear) if it was to be attacked by the Turkish military today.

[Suedia]

Re: Armenia: A Second Israel

"If what you mean is making Armenia a strong influential country in the region and in the world I agree with you 100% but sure NOT like Israel."

Yes that's what i mean. I also do not like to have Armenia always in war. It is better to win without fighting, than by fighting and winning. If our Armed Forces, Economy is powerful, then automatically our political ground too will be powerful. We won't be under the influence of any foreign government. The bigger countries would respect us, and not spit on our faces...