Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Haykakan (not Hakob, sorry), I have yet to express my views on demographics nor have I had a chance to express my level of confidence or lack thereof. If anything, the urgent tone that I write with should be indication that there is awareness of an alarming situation at hand.

As Gegev above rightly says, "A despot's most devoted proponents are slaves." I can add to that: "Despots know how to harvest slaves from formerly healthy populations." How do they do that? Start with Tiglath-Pileser's own confession from the 8th century b.c. on how to build an empire. The first method he recommended was to constantly keep his conquered sedentary subjects in a nomadic state. the second rule was to ensure there is no homogenous population in any given sector. The third rule for Tiglath-Pileser was to deny each culture "their own gods," essentially their own history and value systems. As you say, this process has accelerated due to technology, rapid transport and information systems, more frightening mass destruction (even the so-called "conventional") weaponry. No argument there.

How will we react to it?

In the past we Armenians ironically were a culture that abhorred central rule, and central governments cannot exist without slavish majority. We simply did not adjust to the despotic imperialist world that was building up around us, but we were a rooted culture, for which reason we still are around. However, my estimation is that we have retained less than 1 percent of our former presence. Armenians were a very large presence in the ancient world. Read Robert Ellis' "Armenian Origins of the Etruscans" to get a glimpse.

However, if the author Jean Markale and his instigated and immensely popular "Celtic culture" trend is of any indication, and if the resurgence of the "confederate mindset" ("privacy, individual sovereignty and so on) in almost all western countries but especially the US is of any indication, then the old Armenian spirit is making a comeback. Are we going to ride this, or are we going to sit like morons as we mostly did in the 19th and 20th centuries?

The Americans are slowly, very slowly, waking up, but are still losing the battle badly. Just look at the Iraq-Lybia-Syria-Egypt-Afghan etc.. fiasco. it's diplomatic, economic and moral suicide for them. One only has to read JohnTaylorGatto.com and find out the American version of it at the education level, that of "slave production". Oh, and if we are under the impression that the US political model of late is not that of despotism, you are living in Disneyland. By the way, Robert Blye, a poet and mythologer, when he described how "Americans are losing their maturity and are as a consequence losing their former political maturity and activism," he calls the main cause "The Disneyland culture." The "Sibling Society" is a book you should read. Something very similar to that is being done to Armenians currently, a tried and tested model of centralized Oligarchy with a pliant and stupefied population is being exported to target nations. It's not that difficult, actually. Good leaders are always few in number. You just create a situation where they will die as heroes, and then promote your own ambitious, petty and criminal lackeys. Once that's done, keep the lackeys on massive payroll with lots of IMF loans (CRBF loan, or "asset purchase", whatever) for which the population is liable, and they will happily do everything possible to keep the populations pliant.

The slavish behavioral trend is not by accident. The human mind needs examples, idols, inspiration, to aspire toward, and none of our educational systems ever teach statesmanship. That education is always reserved, in the imperialist setting, to a select few. Would the KGB or CIA have liked to allow for Armenians to cultivate cadre of statesmen? Probably not. As the matter of fact, I know dozens of assassinations that have targeted such potential leaders throughout our history. I recall the Movses Giorgizian example in recent history, for example.

Education of our own political past can improve the odds of creating such cadre.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakob things are different in the present day world then they were before. Emigration to distant lands is not a big deal anymore its just a few hours away. Technology has changed the world we live in and i am not as confident about the demographic situation in Armenia as you seem to be. Sure there were and are and will be good Armenian leaders but who will they lead? Another important point which is overlooked in this discussion is the ever growing trend of Narcissism which is spreading like wildfire throughout the civilized world. I fear the combination of technology(making it easier to emigrate) and narcissism (making emigration a more acceptable decision) is a very big threat to our nation. We live in a rapidly changing world and what was applicable for thousands of years may no longer apply or perhaps applies in different ways. I agree that it is no accident that we Armenians have survived for so long but the world is not a constant and just because we survived till now does not mean we will always survive. My point is we need to address the issues as they change around us.

[gegev]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

...
The blame for having limited options is not with Russia, Turkey, US, NATO, EU, Erdogan, Putin... it is with (some) Armenians ...

...

Slave mentality is their key characteristic

Despots most devoted proponents are their slaves.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

That s the point....know who you are dealing with and do not underestimate.

It is not about the Kabob.....it is to not hesitate to stick the Shish (the sword) in its place, anymore.

Then we're saying the same thing, brother.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

That s the point....know who you are dealing with and do not underestimate.

It is not about the Kabob.....it is to not hesitate to stick the Shish (the sword) in its place, anymore.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

So, what do you propose? We don't learn anything from history and eat shish kebab?

You remind me of the days a fellow named David Boyadjian was campaigning for a "No Place For Denial" law to be passed in every municipality there are Armenians and oust the ADL.

Everyone laughed. "Dont' you know who you're going up against? They're the most powerful political force on the planet."

He was able to get the ADL kicked out of Belmont, MA in 1 week.

Then he got the ADL kicked out of Watertown, MA. Then another, then another...

Then the same people said, again, when he asked the west coast to help. They said, "Don't you know who you're dealing with?..."

Listen, there is always an excuse to not do something.

I prefer to learn and pass on what I've learned.

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Turks know us much more than we may think.....unless you realize that you will always be at a disadvantage no matter what has been written in books.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I have heard our elders say.....while we are busy eating Shish Kabob and drinking Aragh, the Turks and the xxxs were planning to cut our heads off and take over the world.

I am with Lampron on this one.

All generalizations and wrong, including this one.

Please, read up on the Armenakan movement, Armen Yergarian, Grigor Artsruni, Mgrditch Portukalian, and then offer opinions on whether or not Armenians were eating shish kebab.

Granted, most unfortunately were playing "socialist brotherhood" and lobbying for a "Constitutional (Ottoman) Empire" of Egalite, Fraternitee blah blah, such as my least favorite of Armenian intellectuals, Krikor Zohrab. That is true. Armenian leaders and intellectuals, pushed off to Bolis, Tiflis, Baku, Moscva, were mostly lulled to sleep and were probably mostly not even aware of the condition their people were facing.

But then you had Yergarian's leadership role is creating underground weapons depots in Van's Aygestan district. You have the Armenakans working to slowly awaken nationalist feelinsg abmong the majority rural "ramik" populations. You have Grigor Artsruni financing this movement. YOu have Grigor Artsuni writing extensively about the need for caution in adopting a radical stance, such as the Hnchaks and later Dashnaks. You have Artsruni constantly proposing to first do the grass roots work, arm the populations with knowledge and weapons, prepare a clear strategy, above all concentrate the Armenian intellectual, financial, political and military mass in Van and Armenia proper instead of spreading out into the four corners of the globe. Please, learn about what was being done, and you will learn much about what prevented these things from coming to fruition. That lesson will definitely awaken you as to what can be done.

Blanket statements prove nothing except pomposity. Please, let us avoid this.

I was alarmed, for example, to listen to a cartoonist named Robert Sahakyants and his lies particularly about Grigor Artsruni. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhKDfNrBQ8g

Sahakyants, while engaged in his anti-Armenian rant, managed to slip in what his handlers had taught him: He, much as a great many Turks I encounter on the net, blurts out some nonsense about how "... even Grigor Artsruni didn't like western Armenia". Turks on the net use this exact idea. When I say anti-Armenian, I mean truly anti-Armenian tirades during which he even recommends Armenians to adopt some "international language" as their official language and treat their own as a regional dialect. The "didn't like western Armenia" is taken out of context. Grigor Artsruni was severely criticizing the Armenian complacency and ease with which they had managed to concentrate their efforts in the Imperial Capital as "The Good Loyal Millet." Was he wrong? What in the world would that have anything to do with "like" or "dislike" for western Armenia? You would not believe how many believed him!

[Eddo211]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I have heard our elders say.....while we are busy eating Shish Kabob and drinking Aragh, the Turks and the xxxs were planning to cut our heads off and take over the world.

I am with Lampron on this one.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

And I am disapointed that you did not see the correctness of my argument.

And isn't pure prejudice and bias the normal situation on ANY Armenian-related message board. One only has to look at out latest arrival, hagopn, to see that golden rule in action.

LOL, this fellow is amusing. Pure, my friends, we have pureness on "Any Armenian-related message board." Interesting Brito-fascist perspective. The "latest arrival" that I am (which I am not, actually), I see the condescension toward Armenians to be a problem that Sims the Feline above certainly harbors.

In another thread, I said that Sims the Feline is a Russophobe and expects everyone else to be one.. Otherwise, he may very well (actually, always will, predictably so) begin to pour many liters of bile on you if you do not join his Russophobic choir.

Sims the Feline is a ma who grinds axes as a primary occupation.

The sign at the entrance of this forum should say "Beware of Toxic Felines"

Oh, did I mention that he has been banned from other forums precisely because of this?