Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Unfortunately Hakobn you still elude the main issue at hand. How is Armenia (or anyone else) going to stand up to imperialism wo a centralized government? The fact of the matter is that we do not live in a vaccume and events around us matter. We are all better off with a government then wo one but the nature of the government is really at the heart of the matter. I have a lot more to say on this matter and i am sure you and others do as well so perhaps continuing this conversation in a new thread is in order.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The question is valid, and the short answer is to have a strong enough protection of personal autonomy while still keeping in sight the perils of the world we live in. You will never maintain the loyalty of a "narcissist" through a dictatorship.

You are more than welcome to start the thread. I'll join you.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

I have started just such a thread here http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread....275-Government but no one else seemed interested in the subject. Perhaps we can converse there.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakob things are different in the present day world then they were before. Emigration to distant lands is not a big deal anymore its just a few hours away. Technology has changed the world we live in and i am not as confident about the demographic situation in Armenia as you seem to be. Sure there were and are and will be good Armenian leaders but who will they lead? Another important point which is overlooked in this discussion is the ever growing trend of Narcissism which is spreading like wildfire throughout the civilized world. I fear the combination of technology(making it easier to emigrate) and narcissism (making emigration a more acceptable decision) is a very big threat to our nation. We live in a rapidly changing world and what was applicable for thousands of years may no longer apply or perhaps applies in different ways. I agree that it is no accident that we Armenians have survived for so long but the world is not a constant and just because we survived till now does not mean we will always survive. My point is we need to address the issues as they change around us.

To answer this Hagopn is doing very good job. Id like to add some very minor technical points. Technology has also it's advantages. Mainly, our culture is available around the world to all Armenians. People, who were cut from homeland before, had to assimilate evenually with time because of no exposure to mother culture, now have it all under their fingertips. One can see awakenings around the world in every nation because of this. This will also make our nation more homogenous. When I came to USA, older 4-5th generation Armenians were too far gone to be compared to our main body. Now things are diffrent. There is awakening, sort of.
This also exposes us to other cultural influences, but those are being actively filtered tru still young armenian world media.
Would we discuss such matters a few decades ago? Would we have any venue to reach to each other's thoughts?
To second Hagopn's points, I remember that all of Armenia's cultural life in soviet times was controlled by Moscow, and it was slowly brought close and subject to russian in every sence. In 70's it was outlawed to own or operate any mass media(copiers, recorders etc) to distribute national songs or like.
Now can anybody keep Armenchik under pillows however rabis he is? LOL. I see people who don't know any armenian words (their parents too) and anything about our history blast Armenian music in their cars. dirty rabis Armo or not, main point is it is ours. it is not any other's.
I agree about narcissism's spread, but I see also that the most powerfull american world culture has not chocked national cultures around the world. On the contrary, it has helped them modernize and become more attractive for their members.
I think internet is going to cause empiral media hegemonies to break up into small and uncontrollable pieces.
The only question is population numbers in our homeland.
that is a large and uncertain subject to discuss. I think it is going to level off soon. it would be a very long discussion, but about 15 years ago, I have noticed that our many small villages were not going to survive. Just like in any other country, because of modern agriculture and difficulties of supporting families with such small parcels. But that is a world problem too.
Lets discuss this guys.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakob, you are by far the most optimistic person I have read on this forum-, and you bring up so many topics that are close to my heart. I'm not sure how to respond without changing the topic at hand. You make many points that cover a lot of ground, many topics and categories.

I agree with you that technology, just as any force, can be used to level the field and allow us to take advantage. So far, we haven't done very well in this Internet age. One example is the slow pace with which we have yet to fully adopt a font standard that is completely native to all operating systems such as Windows, Macintosh, Unix, Linux, Android/Linus, iOS and so on. Now we are behind every modern culture in voice recognition tech, OCR tech, database tech, so on and so forth. We don't even have a mass implementation of a keyboard standard. Apparently even in Armenia either Russian Standard or English Qwerty standard keyboards are the norm, and Armenian is either customized or a few of the people out there have taken the initiative to create, make their own Armenian standard overlay/cover or stickers onto the existing keyboards. At some point some company in the US was making Armenian standard keyboards, but for some reason, perhaps due to lack of demand, they stopped. Nothing really is being done to bring our language fully to this digital age.

Maybe we can move this to a technology based forum/thread.

[hagopn]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

The irony is that the hottest selling OCR software, Fine Reader, is an Armenian owned and created product. Fine Reader does well in reading certain Armenian fonts, but clearly there is yet work to be done on this. I have tried using it especially on the old "parz" fonts, but it fails to scan the majority of terms. Has anyone found something that works well? I realize it's off topic. I will search in the tech section.

[londontsi]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

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This subject may becoming off topic, but if we understand the whys by looking back in history we would be more in tune the course we are taking.

In any event the full article link

http://times.am/?p=32715&l=ru

Is Russia a Friend or a Foe?


Over the past few years Armenia has, both on the political and economic level followed an increasingly pro-European path .........

Lessons from the Past

During the Fourth General Congress of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, which took place in 1907, one of the main items on the agenda was the “Caucasian Plan,” which called for Armenians to struggle against Tsarist tyranny and buildup socialism in the Caucasus. Armenian military commander, Andranik Ozanyan, opposed this plan arguing that it would weaken the struggle of Armenians trying to liberate their motherland, since Armenia would have too many enemies at the same time; Armenia shouldn’t try to alienate Russia as well. After the adoption of the plan, hestated that, “by adopting this (plan), we have already half-buried the Armenian Cause.” Unfortunately, time proved him right.

The Armenian leadership at that time did not have the political foresight and chose to fight two sides. The Armenian leadership today seems to have no political foresight by trying to constantly please all sides. The similarity between the above-mentioned examples is clear; one remains stuck in the middle. Margaret Thatcher wisely said, “standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous, since you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides.”

Armenia, geographically located in one of the most politically unstable and dangerous regions in the world, is not able to survive on its own. Turkey is continuing its cultural genocide and is tryingto suffocate Armenia by all means. Azerbaijan is spending billions acquiring military armament and is preparing its population for war. It is of utmost importance that Armenia’s foreign policy orientation should be in line with the core issue it faces today, namely its security aspect. Russia is and will remain the only country that is able and willing to provide Armenia with significant security guarantees. As the following proverb aptly says, “better a neighbor who is near than a brother far away.”

The only reason why Turkey refrained from attacking Armenia in 1993 was their concern as to Russia’s response. The only reason why Azerbaijan did not attack Armenia during the Russian-Georgian war of 2008 was because of their concern as to Russia’s response. Accordingly, one of the main reasons Armenia exists today and is not overrun by its hostile neighbors is not because Armenia’s adversaries are afraid of “Christian” Europe’s response – we all know how they responded when TurkeyattackedCyprus – but because they are afraid of Russia’s response.

In 1918 Diana Agabeg Apcar, Armenia’s first female diplomat, wrote the following “…the Armenians on their part have also been guilty since 1878 onwards of two gigantic errors. They have trusted and hoped in “Christian Governments.” The denseness of the Armenian mind in this connection has been amazing. Armenians have been accredited with native shrewdness but certainly no people could have proved more astonishingly stupid than they have proved themselves on this particular point. The other gigantic error of which the Armenians have been guilty ofis that the nation as a whole did not support the Armenian revolutionaries.”

Recklessly choosing to follow EU’s course and sorisk losing Russia’s security guarantees, would be like promising the Netherlands prospective economic gains on the condition that they remove the dams that protect their country from flooding.

Coinciding Interests
.........

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

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This subject may becoming off topic, but if we understand the whys by looking back in history we would be more in tune the course we are taking.

In any event the full article link
http://times.am/?p=32715&l=ru

This should end discussions in this forum.

[Haykakan]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

Hakop i think you are way off on these two points - think Google.. I wish people would stay on topic.
I see also that the most powerfull american world culture has not chocked national cultures around the world
I think internet is going to cause empiral media hegemonies to break up into small and uncontrollable pieces.

[Hakob]

Re: Is Russia an ally or foe, nowadays?

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Hakop i think you are way off on these two points - think Google.. I wish people would stay on topic.
I see also that the most powerfull american world culture has not chocked national cultures around the world
I think internet is going to cause empiral media hegemonies to break up into small and uncontrollable pieces.

Yes Google also. I am not talking about media giant controlling the market. I am talking everybody, everynationality can google and find any material about their national interests.
25 years ago diasporan Armenian had to rely either moscow's agencies or western official agencies (both full of lies and propaganda) for news about country. Not any more. You want to know any detail about happenings back home, just google it, go to yahoo or go to forums.
Google it to translate, to find books, find aybbenaran online and tutorials.
If google leaves those out it runs the risk f loosing markets internationally.
Am i missing something?
Maybe this is not where to discuss this, sorry. But our thoughts came to this from population loss in Armenia and assimilation abroad.
This is something also pertaining to russian Armenians. They also connect to motherland tru this.
By the way, did anybody see the inauguration of Armenian church in moscow? It is the biggest one outside of Armenia. Remember< i sayd that Armenians in Russia are organising fast?
One thing interesting is that Armenians there were pretty upset that Putin did not show up. That maybe is a sign of growing influence.
Also Putin hurried later to congratulate Serj on the occasion of our independence. He maybe wanted to minimize latest negative publicity on russia's poilicies against Armenian suvereinity.