Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

[SevSpitak]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

Then again... his son went through 1915..

I take that back.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

Monarchy still exists, it's just in a form that's less noticeable. You don't hear about the people with private fortunes that are behind the scenes pulling strings. Capitalism in itself is not a bad concept if it functioned the way it was intended to. I think a doctor or lawyer should be valued more than a garbage man or what would be the point of anyone trying to achieve anything? The first goal of Capitalism is to own land, since all slave owners owned land, acquiring land became a way of taking yourself out of the chain of slavery. If you own your property, it no longer belongs to the state and you now have power to do with it as you please. It's a goal that most people in North America brush off since their goal is to make payments on a home up until their death.

Armenians owned land in the Ottoman Empire. We also had our own businesses. We certainly weren't slaves, even though we were at a disadvantage, we were very influential. And to see all that taken away from us within a moment in time had to be truly devastating.

And no objection here either lol

Like we said, there's always goods in everything initially, but humans distort them and use their flaws to their advantages, which exposes its bads.

Speaking of owning land made me think of my great great grandfather in the Ottoman Empire. He was apparently a dude with a huge moustache, with several wives, who owned seven mountains O_O, and did nothing with his life but chill. I wish I was his son and not his great great grandson..

[SevSpitak]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

The thing is that sure today the conservatives agree but they did not agree of their free will. They were forced to agree because not doing so would destroy them. Conservatives are or were against desegragation, the right for people to vote, separation of church and state, the right of women to vote, civil rights,.... i think you get my point. I think we need to look at things in a historical perspective to get a better idea of what they really stand for. Things like personal and financial responcibility are examples of conservatism i do like so as you said earlier there is good and bad in everything. The problem i have with capitolism is that it values capitol more then humanity. Such a system cannot provide humanity the things it needs to grow and thrive. Humanity cannot be measured in terms of money, doing this cheapens us and life itself and that is exactly whats happening today. Btw i think we drifted off topic here a bit.

No objection here.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

Sev your outlook on capitolism is very much like my own. As for liberalism the very notion that everyone should have a fair shot at life is itself a liberal idea which brought down monarchy. I am not a liberal nor a conservative but i value the good that comes from both sides and point out the bad things to.

Monarchy still exists, it's just in a form that's less noticeable. You don't hear about the people with private fortunes that are behind the scenes pulling strings. Capitalism in itself is not a bad concept if it functioned the way it was intended to. I think a doctor or lawyer should be valued more than a garbage man or what would be the point of anyone trying to achieve anything? The first goal of Capitalism is to own land, since all slave owners owned land, acquiring land became a way of taking yourself out of the chain of slavery. If you own your property, it no longer belongs to the state and you now have power to do with it as you please. It's a goal that most people in North America brush off since their goal is to make payments on a home up until their death.

Armenians owned land in the Ottoman Empire. We also had our own businesses. We certainly weren't slaves, even though we were at a disadvantage, we were very influential. And to see all that taken away from us within a moment in time had to be truly devastating.

[Haykakan]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

Well, I think that that is the goal of all systems: give a fair shot at life to all. It's a liberal ideology, maybe, but I don't think a heavy conservative would disagree with that. I think it's more common sense than liberal. The only modern system, imo, that doesn't agree with that common sense is capitalism. Capitalism says, "the one who can sacrifice an entire life to gain 5 minutes of pleasure, will have 5 minutes of pleasure."

The thing is that sure today the conservatives agree but they did not agree of their free will. They were forced to agree because not doing so would destroy them. Conservatives are or were against desegragation, the right for people to vote, separation of church and state, the right of women to vote, civil rights,.... i think you get my point. I think we need to look at things in a historical perspective to get a better idea of what they really stand for. Things like personal and financial responcibility are examples of conservatism i do like so as you said earlier there is good and bad in everything. The problem i have with capitolism is that it values capitol more then humanity. Such a system cannot provide humanity the things it needs to grow and thrive. Humanity cannot be measured in terms of money, doing this cheapens us and life itself and that is exactly whats happening today. Btw i think we drifted off topic here a bit.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

Isn't this thread about the recognition of the Armenian genocide by USA? XD

Here's my opinion:
I don't care if the United States recognizes the genocide formally or not this year (though I'd be overjoyed if it was ). I believe they already have recognized it. Didn't you notice that not a single person refused to call it a genocide? All of them said it was a genocide, but that now is not the time. That's enough for me. They acknowledge my family's tragic past. The rest is all politics, and sooner or later, it will be recognized, and we can now firmly say that Turkey is the one imposing politics on history.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

Well i love hearing this "(I have a brain of my own so I can think on my own), ". I also love hearing that you place great importance on culture as do i. The part we differ is when it comes to religion i think. Armenian culture long precedes chritianity, as a matter of fact our glory days were long before its invention. I think people are quick to credit religion for things it does not deserve credit for and they also tend to downplay its negative effects on society. Having the right rulers is more important then the system they rule in (that is my opinion) and there are plenty of examples where good rulers have done a excellent job so i would have to disagree and say that atleast some people can indeed do this.

Well, we might have different opinions on religion, but we might have a different definition of religion as well. I think empires used religion as an excuse for war much like countries use oil as an excuse today. I think blaming the Bible or the Koran, or whatever, for all the past wars is as intelligent as blaming oil for current wars, when in reality, the true thing to blame are the people, not the objects. There is not a single passage in the Bible that tells to kill infidels. It actually says the opposite on numerous occasions. If you actually read the Bible objectively without taking a decision in advance, especially Jesus' parts, you'll see that it's nothing more than a moral book to teach people how to respect others. Whether you believe it or not is entirely up to you, and I find is irrelevant to this subject. An atheist can read the Bible and appreciate its moral principles.

Also, I can't argue much against the fact that there might have been good rulers in the past, but it is of no importance to me right now because it wasn't a stable rule. If there was ONE system that offered true peace until the end of humanity, then that's what I'd call 'a good rule.' That's why I'm saying that so far, the only person (fictional or real, it's up to you) who can bring such a ruling system is Jesus (or someone who has the same personality as Jesus, and who can pass on that personality to the next ruler).

[SevSpitak]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

As for liberalism the very notion that everyone should have a fair shot at life is itself a liberal idea which brought down monarchy.

Well, I think that that is the goal of all systems: give a fair shot at life to all. It's a liberal ideology, maybe, but I don't think a heavy conservative would disagree with that. I think it's more common sense than liberal. The only modern system, imo, that doesn't agree with that common sense is capitalism. Capitalism says, "the one who can sacrifice an entire life to gain 5 minutes of pleasure, will have 5 minutes of pleasure."

[Haykakan]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

Well i love hearing this "(I have a brain of my own so I can think on my own), ". I also love hearing that you place great importance on culture as do i. The part we differ is when it comes to religion i think. Armenian culture long precedes chritianity, as a matter of fact our glory days were long before its invention. I think people are quick to credit religion for things it does not deserve credit for and they also tend to downplay its negative effects on society. Having the right rulers is more important then the system they rule in (that is my opinion) and there are plenty of examples where good rulers have done a excellent job so i would have to disagree and say that atleast some people can indeed do this.

[SevSpitak]

Re: Recognition of Armenian Genocide by USA

Sev your outlook on capitolism is very much like my own. As for liberalism the very notion that everyone should have a fair shot at life is itself a liberal idea which brought down monarchy. I am not a liberal nor a conservative but i value the good that comes from both sides and point out the bad things to.

Yeah, I like to take the good from everything, too, and not associate myself with an ideology put together by some guy somewhere on the planet (I have a brain of my own so I can think on my own), but I have to admit, I tend to lean on the conservative side more, if I were to choose between Liberal and Conservative.

I like my culture, and I hate it when people judge me for being a nationalist. If there were no Armenian nationalists, we wouldn't have a country right now. 'Culture is invented by man and is unimportant' is not in my book. If we're going to say that, then why not "family is also a concept created by man. Who cares if she's your sister, look at rabbits, they don't care!" (in the end, this is where liberalism leads imo). But no matter how we put it, conservative, liberalism, communism, socialism, etc. are all doomed to fail if the people running it aren't honest, left-sided people. All systems are put together because a certain somebody thought "this is the most righteous system," including liberalism. There's good in it all, but like I said, it takes the right people to rule, and I don't think a human can do that. That's why Christians wait for Jesus.