Russian Vassal of Armenia

[arakeretzig]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

BTW, I'm curious, what would Turkey benefit in invading Armenia? I mean, what are they going to do there?
There's basically nothing worthwhile in these mountains. No oil. Little natural resources to speak of.
What was there plan in 1993? Invade and occupy armenia, and then what?
Would they risk everything to just have their little PanTurkic wet dream?

[Eddo211]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

BTW, I'm curious, what would Turkey benefit in invading Armenia? I mean, what are they going to do there?
There's basically nothing worthwhile in these mountains. No oil. Little natural resources to speak of.
What was there plan in 1993? Invade and occupy armenia, and then what?
Would they risk everything to just have their little PanTurkic wet dream?

Secure direct route of East West corridor of energy transport for the West (bypassing Russia) with Armenia becoming irrelevant by itself and as a Russian road block/battle ground......another reason why US changed its stand from supporting the Armenians of Artsakh on self determination and democratization of NKAO during the breakup of Soviet Union to supporting the “Breakup of Republics” and to maintain soviet Azeri borders after the actual collapse of the USSR even though the new Azery government did not even recognize NKAO as part of their territory. This also worked at the time in Russia’s advantage and Azeris had the green light for full scale war with Artsakh which now was no longer a Russian internal problem but an international armed conflict.

If it wasn’t for Armenian Diaspora pushing for a legislature to put a ban on all weapons to Azerbaijan the US arms would have continued to poor into Azerbaijan during the war from 1992.

At that time USA, Turkey, Iran, And Russia were competing for the lead position on the conflict with Russia coming on top eventually.

USSR tried to stop us with operation Ring, Turkish troops massed at the border to overrun Armenia, Iran ran military exercise at their border fearing the Armenians rapid victories and liberating territory expansions, US feared losing a great opportunity and Azerbaijan influence, and the new Russia didn’t want to lose its influence in the region.

Armenians could have gone all the way to Baku but they stopped us yet again.........just like they stopped General Andranik from taking Baku.
Anyway, my opinion.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

Notice the subtle yet significant differences in the reporting styles of Russian and American press when it comes to the Armenian Genocide. When an official Russian source mentions an event relating to the Armenian Genocide, it is unmistakably presented as the "Armenian Genocide". However, when an American news source, including CIA funded propaganda outlets such as Radio Liberty (the Armenian division of which is run by a "proud" Armenian from the ARF-Dashnaktsutyun) mentions anything about the Armenian Genocide, the term Genocide is almost always placed in quotation marks and the other side of the story is presented as well. Yet we still have fools that drop their pants and bend-over with hope every single year in Washington. And the excuses given by these proud American-Armenians about why the American press chooses to undermine and/or ignore the Armenian Genocide is pathetic, to say the least. The excuse is always - America's "national interests."

Well, imagine the public outcry, the severe indignation, the out-pouring of raw anger by us Armenians had another important political player in the region that portrays itself as a defender of democracy and human rights and/or a friend of Armenians, had been working actively against our Hay Dat for their self-serving "interest". Imagine the fury if for example Moscow was working against our recognition efforts. It seems that Washington is the only political entity on earth today we Armenians voluntarily and persistently make excuses for. When it come to Washington, or xxxs for that matter, we Armenians understand, we Armenians can wait, we Armenians are hopeful, we Armenians are grateful...

We Armenians are pathetic!

Last I checked, Moscow was trying very hard to move closer to Turkey and encourage Ankara to move away from the Atlantic alliance... Last I checked, Moscow considered Turkey an important regional player it wanted to have good relations with... Last I checked, Turkey controlled one of Russia's most vital trade routes, the Dardanelles... Last I checked, Moscow provided Turkey with over fifty percent of Turkey's energy needs... Last I checked, Turkey was one of Russia's biggest trading partners... Last I checked, tens of thousands of Russians were tanning themselves on Turkish beaches all along the Mediterranean Sea... Moscow has just as many interests in Turkey, if not more, than Washington and Tel Aviv. So why isn't Moscow pathetically kissing Turkish asses like Washington and Tel Aviv do on a regular basis? And why isn't Ankara threatening Moscow on a regular basis?

Logic would dictate that Moscow has every reason in the "political interests" book to ignore and/or undermine the Armenian Genocide much like how Washington and Tel Aviv do. Since Russia has important interests and strategic ties with Ankara, why is it that the Russian Duma continues to recognize the Armenian Genocide? Why is it that Russia's official press continues to treat the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact? Why is it that Putin, Medvedev, Lavrov, Ivanov... and now, the Russian Patriarch Kirill have visited the Armenian Genocide memorial? The reality of the matter is Russians don't really have to do us Armenians any favors simply because Armenia exists today as a result of Russian presence in the Caucasus. But by not doing us Armenians any favors Moscow can actually have a freer hand in encouraging Ankara to move closer to it; and through it all Armenia would still not have the option of breaking its total dependency on Moscow.

So, taking all these political nuances into consideration, why does Moscow continue towing the Armenian line when it comes to a topic that has no real political value for it, despite clear advantages for it if it stops doing so? Is it perhaps because the Russian Federation sees Armenia as a natural partner, a natural ally that needs to be nurtured and protected, unlike Washington that sees everything as dollar signs and would even sell its mother to the highest bidder (of course none of this applies to Washington's relationship with Israel which is a symbiotic relationship, for the two cannot live without each other). I think our many Russophobic "nationalists" seriously need to think about this one.

Nevertheless, can any one of you imagine the orgasmic euphoria Armenians in America would have felt had a high ranking official from Washington... wait, strike that. Can any one of you imagine the orgasmic euphoria Armenians in America would have felt had virtually 'anybody' from the state of Maryland visited Tsitsernakaberd? To think of all our limited resources and efforts being wasted by our idiots in America in an utterly corrupt place like Washington is sicking. To tell you the truth, as far as I'm concerned, it is immensely more important for the Russian Federation to continue recognizing the Armenian Genocide than it is for Washington. Instead of wasting time writing letters to American politicians and begging them for favors, American-Armenians would do better if they wrote letters of appreciation to the Russian Duma.

Arevordi

[levon]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

Notice the subtle yet significant differences in the reporting styles of Russian and American press when it comes to the Armenian Genocide. When an official Russian source mentions an event relating to the Armenian Genocide, it is unmistakably presented as the "Armenian Genocide". However, when an American news source, including CIA funded propaganda outlets such as Radio Liberty (the Armenian division of which is run by a "proud" Armenian from the ARF-Dashnaktsutyun) mentions anything about the Armenian Genocide, the term Genocide is almost always placed in quotation marks and the other side of the story is presented as well. Yet we still have fools that drop their pants and bend-over with hope every single year in Washington. And the excuses given by these proud American-Armenians about why the American press chooses to undermine and/or ignore the Armenian Genocide is pathetic, to say the least. The excuse is always - America's "national interests."

Well, imagine the public outcry, the severe indignation, the out-pouring of raw anger by us Armenians had another important political player in the region that portrays itself as a defender of democracy and human rights and/or a friend of Armenians, had been working actively against our Hay Dat for their self-serving "interest". Imagine the fury if for example Moscow was working against our recognition efforts. It seems that Washington is the only political entity on earth today we Armenians voluntarily and persistently make excuses for. When it come to Washington, or xxxs for that matter, we Armenians understand, we Armenians can wait, we Armenians are hopeful, we Armenians are grateful...

We Armenians are pathetic!

Last I checked, Moscow was trying very hard to move closer to Turkey and encourage Ankara to move away from the Atlantic alliance... Last I checked, Moscow considered Turkey an important regional player it wanted to have good relations with... Last I checked, Turkey controlled one of Russia's most vital trade routes, the Dardanelles... Last I checked, Moscow provided Turkey with over fifty percent of Turkey's energy needs... Last I checked, Turkey was one of Russia's biggest trading partners... Last I checked, tens of thousands of Russians were tanning themselves on Turkish beaches all along the Mediterranean Sea... Moscow has just as many interests in Turkey, if not more, than Washington and Tel Aviv. So why isn't Moscow pathetically kissing Turkish asses like Washington and Tel Aviv do on a regular basis? And why isn't Ankara threatening Moscow on a regular basis?

Logic would dictate that Moscow has every reason in the "political interests" book to ignore and/or undermine the Armenian Genocide much like how Washington and Tel Aviv do. Since Russia has important interests and strategic ties with Ankara, why is it that the Russian Duma continues to recognize the Armenian Genocide? Why is it that Russia's official press continues to treat the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact? Why is it that Putin, Medvedev, Lavrov, Ivanov... and now, the Russian Patriarch Kirill have visited the Armenian Genocide memorial? The reality of the matter is Russians don't really have to do us Armenians any favors simply because Armenia exists today as a result of Russian presence in the Caucasus. But by not doing us Armenians any favors Moscow can actually have a freer hand in encouraging Ankara to move closer to it; and through it all Armenia would still not have the option of breaking its total dependency on Moscow.

So, taking all these political nuances into consideration, why does Moscow continue towing the Armenian line when it comes to a topic that has no real political value for it, despite clear advantages for it if it stops doing so? Is it perhaps because the Russian Federation sees Armenia as a natural partner, a natural ally that needs to be nurtured and protected, unlike Washington that sees everything as dollar signs and would even sell its mother to the highest bidder (of course none of this applies to Washington's relationship with Israel which is a symbiotic relationship, for the two cannot live without each other). I think our many Russophobic "nationalists" seriously need to think about this one.

Nevertheless, can any one of you imagine the orgasmic euphoria Armenians in America would have felt had a high ranking official from Washington... wait, strike that. Can any one of you imagine the orgasmic euphoria Armenians in America would have felt had virtually 'anybody' from the state of Maryland visited Tsitsernakaberd? To think of all our limited resources and efforts being wasted by our idiots in America in an utterly corrupt place like Washington is sicking. To tell you the truth, as far as I'm concerned, it is immensely more important for the Russian Federation to continue recognizing the Armenian Genocide than it is for Washington. Instead of wasting time writing letters to American politicians and begging them for favors, American-Armenians would do better if they wrote letters of appreciation to the Russian Duma.

Arevordi

Well said!!!

[retro]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

Secure direct route of East West corridor of energy transport for the West (bypassing Russia) with Armenia becoming irrelevant by itself and as a Russian road block/battle ground.

If Armenia where in Turkish/Azeris hands then Baku's pipelines would be able to bypass Georgia and the Turks would be able to cripple the Russians Caucasian energy corridor. Armenia I am afraid is very much victim of it's own geography.

Whilst China has just overtaken Germany, as Russia's leading trading partner and Europe's regional influence is declining. The EU's market for natural gas is nevertheless, significant and Europe currently pays a certain, large racketeering Eurasian power, far more for NG than it's Asian rivals do.

[UrMistake]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

So Armenian is still active blogger i just cheeked him well said...

[Joseph]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

Notice the subtle yet significant differences in the reporting styles of Russian and American press when it comes to the Armenian Genocide. When an official Russian source mentions an event relating to the Armenian Genocide, it is unmistakably presented as the "Armenian Genocide". However, when an American news source, including CIA funded propaganda outlets such as Radio Liberty (the Armenian division of which is run by a "proud" Armenian from the ARF-Dashnaktsutyun) mentions anything about the Armenian Genocide, the term Genocide is almost always placed in quotation marks and the other side of the story is presented as well. Yet we still have fools that drop their pants and bend-over with hope every single year in Washington. And the excuses given by these proud American-Armenians about why the American press chooses to undermine and/or ignore the Armenian Genocide is pathetic, to say the least. The excuse is always - America's "national interests."

Well, imagine the public outcry, the severe indignation, the out-pouring of raw anger by us Armenians had another important political player in the region that portrays itself as a defender of democracy and human rights and/or a friend of Armenians, had been working actively against our Hay Dat for their self-serving "interest". Imagine the fury if for example Moscow was working against our recognition efforts. It seems that Washington is the only political entity on earth today we Armenians voluntarily and persistently make excuses for. When it come to Washington, or xxxs for that matter, we Armenians understand, we Armenians can wait, we Armenians are hopeful, we Armenians are grateful...

We Armenians are pathetic!

Last I checked, Moscow was trying very hard to move closer to Turkey and encourage Ankara to move away from the Atlantic alliance... Last I checked, Moscow considered Turkey an important regional player it wanted to have good relations with... Last I checked, Turkey controlled one of Russia's most vital trade routes, the Dardanelles... Last I checked, Moscow provided Turkey with over fifty percent of Turkey's energy needs... Last I checked, Turkey was one of Russia's biggest trading partners... Last I checked, tens of thousands of Russians were tanning themselves on Turkish beaches all along the Mediterranean Sea... Moscow has just as many interests in Turkey, if not more, than Washington and Tel Aviv. So why isn't Moscow pathetically kissing Turkish asses like Washington and Tel Aviv do on a regular basis? And why isn't Ankara threatening Moscow on a regular basis?

Logic would dictate that Moscow has every reason in the "political interests" book to ignore and/or undermine the Armenian Genocide much like how Washington and Tel Aviv do. Since Russia has important interests and strategic ties with Ankara, why is it that the Russian Duma continues to recognize the Armenian Genocide? Why is it that Russia's official press continues to treat the Armenian Genocide as a historical fact? Why is it that Putin, Medvedev, Lavrov, Ivanov... and now, the Russian Patriarch Kirill have visited the Armenian Genocide memorial? The reality of the matter is Russians don't really have to do us Armenians any favors simply because Armenia exists today as a result of Russian presence in the Caucasus. But by not doing us Armenians any favors Moscow can actually have a freer hand in encouraging Ankara to move closer to it; and through it all Armenia would still not have the option of breaking its total dependency on Moscow.

So, taking all these political nuances into consideration, why does Moscow continue towing the Armenian line when it comes to a topic that has no real political value for it, despite clear advantages for it if it stops doing so? Is it perhaps because the Russian Federation sees Armenia as a natural partner, a natural ally that needs to be nurtured and protected, unlike Washington that sees everything as dollar signs and would even sell its mother to the highest bidder (of course none of this applies to Washington's relationship with Israel which is a symbiotic relationship, for the two cannot live without each other). I think our many Russophobic "nationalists" seriously need to think about this one.

Nevertheless, can any one of you imagine the orgasmic euphoria Armenians in America would have felt had a high ranking official from Washington... wait, strike that. Can any one of you imagine the orgasmic euphoria Armenians in America would have felt had virtually 'anybody' from the state of Maryland visited Tsitsernakaberd? To think of all our limited resources and efforts being wasted by our idiots in America in an utterly corrupt place like Washington is sicking. To tell you the truth, as far as I'm concerned, it is immensely more important for the Russian Federation to continue recognizing the Armenian Genocide than it is for Washington. Instead of wasting time writing letters to American politicians and begging them for favors, American-Armenians would do better if they wrote letters of appreciation to the Russian Duma.

Arevordi

Very well said. And unlike the US, Russia has many ties to Turkey but is not at all afraid of pissing them off our letting them know that they are in charge of the region.

[Eddo211]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

.... Armenia I am afraid is very much victim of it's own geography....

I like to refer to it as faith instead of victim.

That geography is also a prime real estate and one of the most strategic position that now Armenia holds (regardless of outside influence) and has an opportunity to use it to its advantage and increase its own power in the region without compromising its interests to neither its ally Russia or any Western power.
I wished for such leadership that can play this balancing act that is fueled by pipeline politics.

Armenia is still doing good........considering everything else and all the odds stacked up against it (it is our story).

[Mos]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

While I believe we should maintain good relations with Russia, we shouldn't become over dependent on Russia; we need to have a comfortable amount of independence and mobility. We should have good relations with both Russia and the West (EU more); and try to keep the relationships between the two at similar levels. This way we get the best of the 2 and don't risk being sold out.

[Joseph]

Re: Russian Vassal of Armenia

While I believe we should maintain good relations with Russia, we shouldn't become over dependent on Russia; we need to have a comfortable amount of independence and mobility. We should have good relations with both Russia and the West (EU more); and try to keep the relationships between the two at similar levels. This way we get the best of the 2 and don't risk being sold out.

Which is basically what Armenia has been doing since independence. The Russians offer more to Armenia regarding security.