Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

[hrai]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

Newly-supplied Russian Pantsyr-1 anti-air missile used to down Turkish warplane
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report June 23, 2012,

To ambush the Turkish Air Force F-4 Super Phantom Friday, June 22, over Latakia Syria used Russian-made self-propelled medium range anti-air Pantsyr-1 missiles recently supplied by Moscow (not as first reported anti-air Buk-M2 missiles). This weapon can down aircraft flying at altitudes up to 12 kilometers and cruise missiles. The unit responsible for the ambush was the 73rd brigade of the Syrian army’s 26th Air Defense Division.
Since the sophisticated weapons were delivered to the Assad regime in recent weeks, it must be assumed that local missile crews had not finished training in their use and would have had to rely on help from their Russian instructors to fire one.(1)
This would be the first instance in the 15-month Syrian uprising of an advanced Russian-supplied weapon hitting the military target of a NATO member. Hence the comment from Washington by US State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland who said: “We’ve seen the reports… We have obviously been in contact with our Turkish ally…. To my knowledge, they haven’t raised this at NATO at this point.”(2)
Ankara has repeatedly threatened to ask NATO to invoke the pact’s article 5 obligating members to come to the aid of a fellow member coming under attack. In this case, however, the Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan’s rhetoric was relatively restrained. He vowed to “determinedly take necessary steps” in response “once the incident is fully clarified,” leaving Ankara’s response deliberately vague.
President Abdullah Gul spoke out more strongly: “It is impossible to ignore our fighter jet being shot down by Syria,” he said after Damascus admitted to shooting down the plane, claiming its air defenses acted according to standard procedure before realizing it was a Turkish air force jet. Both are searching for the two missing pilots.
DEBKAfile’s military experts add: This was also the first time in five years any weapons system with Israeli manufacturing input had faced a Russian weapon acquired by Syria.
The first time was September 6, 2007, when Israeli fighter-bombers demolished the Iranian-North Korean-built nuclear reactor in the northern Syrian town of Al-Kibar. Airspace over the reactor was guarded by Russian Pantsyr-S1 anti-air missiles. Israeli bombers got through by disabling the Russian missiles’ radar so that Damascus never realized its reactor was being bombed until it had been smashed and Israeli bombers were home.
Five years later, Turkey has lost a Super Phantom which had undergone partial upgrading by the Israeli Aerospace Industry. However, two years ago, Ankara broke off its security and military ties with Jerusalem after a clash at sea between Turkish Mavi Marmara and Israel troops wich intercepted the vessel on its way to break Israel’s Gaza blockade, leaving nine Turkish pro-Palestinian activists dead.
By severing those ties, the Erdogan government left Israel’s improvements unfinished and the Turkish air force’s F-4 short of counter-measures for evading or attacking the latest Russian-made air defense weapons fired by Syria.
According to, DEBKAfile’s military sources waylaying a Turkish military plane over the sea was therefore a simple matter for the new Pantsyr-1.
Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan admitted Saturday that the jet was shot down over the Mediterranean around 13 kilometers west of the Syrian port of Latakia. He did not explain what a Turkish bomber fighter was doing over Syrian territorial waters, but the suggestion, which Western military sources have confirmed, was that Turkish military jets have lately been carrying out almost daily reconnaissance flights over the Syrian coast. (3) Moscow and Damascus apparently decided it was time to stop the missions which among other things spied on the Russian arms supplies transiting Russian bases at the Syrian ports of Tartus and Latakia.

1. More grist to the mill, Syrian ground crew could have been trained in Russia.
2. turc bully cries to class mates after getting face slapped, forgets situations in past with Greece & Cyprus etc. etc.
3. Perhaps now they'll realise that their continued incursions on land and in the air are pissing off some pretty serious people.

[Alexandros]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

Even the Turkish President pretty much admitted that the Turkish military airplane violated Syrian airspace. On the other hand, Turkey violates Greece`s airspace and territorial water on a daily bases.

And now Turkey cries foul?

[retro]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

Even the Turkish President pretty much admitted that the Turkish military airplane violated Syrian airspace. On the other hand, Turkey violates Greece`s airspace and territorial water on a daily bases.

And now Turkey cries foul?

Apparently the F-4 was downed with a 30mm cannon, so the Turkish jet must of overflew the air defense battery in question at low altitude.

Syria urgently needs to secure it's borders and they are quite right to deter Turkish aggression. As Lebanon is acting as a supply corridor and Syria's regime will need to deprive these Islamist militants of supplies. If they are to prevent them from further destabilizing the country.

In addition to dislodging Russia from their flank. The Turks don't want Syria to move any closer to Iraq. As this would slowly erode their regional monopoly on trade, since Syria has access to the Mediterranean and it can import and compress Iraqi gas and oil. Then ship it on to Europe directly; bypassing Turkish energy corridors.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

Turkey seeks diplomacy not war
By Jonathan Marcus
BBC diplomatic correspondent

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18571191

Turkey's decision to call a Nato meeting to discuss the downing of one of its warplanes by Syrian air defences is a measure of the seriousness of the current situation but it also sends a signal that, for now at least, Ankara is looking for a concerted diplomatic response rather than taking military action of its own.

At the very least the downing of the Turkish jet risks a dangerous new twist in the Syrian crisis. Since the start of the unrest, concern at the escalating loss of life inside Syria has been coupled with fears that the violence could move beyond Syria's own borders prompting a broader regional conflagration.

The violence has already seeped into Lebanon but the greater fear was that if the fighting spilled over the border, say into Turkey, or if somehow Hezbollah were to be encouraged by the Syrian regime to lash out at Israel, then this could become an inter-state conflict rather than an insurgency largely confined within the borders of one country.

The episode of the downing of the jet still raises many questions.

Where exactly was it when it was engaged by Syrian air defences?
Why had it strayed into Syrian air-space for at least a small part of its flight?
Why were measures not taken to alert the aircraft's crew of their error before knocking the plane out of the sky?
Was this just a routine training mission as the Turks say, or was the aircraft seeking to monitor what was going on the ground?
What's clear is that Turkey's concern is shared by other Nato countries. Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague has expressed his grave concern at the shooting down of the aircraft, which he says, according to the Turkish authorities, had happened "without warning".

Turkey has now determined to take the matter to Nato, calling for an urgent meeting to discuss the situation. Article 4 of the Nato Treaty allows for countries to consult together whenever "the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened".

Escalating dangers
Turkey might have sought such consultations at earlier stages in this crisis, prompted for example by the flood of refugees across its borders or shelling from Syria into its territory.

For now at least Turkey is not seeking to invoke Article 5 of the Nato treaty which would require countries to offer it practical military assistance. This is what happened after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait when Saddam Hussein threatened Turkey.

Nato warplanes and air defences were, reluctantly it must be said, despatched to bolster its air defences.

Many will wonder if this episode brings the likelihood of direct external military intervention in Syria any closer. The answer is probably no.

The situation on the ground is complex and messy and few countries have much appetite to become involved. In addition the shooting down of the Turkish jet is a reminder of the capabilities of Syria's air defences which are far more extensive than those of Libya, which still required a full-scale US air campaign to destroy.

But what this episode does do is to highlight the escalating dangers as the Syrian crisis continues. As the bloodshed grows and the Assad regime becomes more desperate, so the risk of some untoward event happening which widens the circle of conflict grows accordingly.

Nato's deliberations will raise the pressure on the Syrian regime but it is hard to see them having any practical effect in terms of convincing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to relinquish power.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

Apparently the F-4 was downed with a 30mm cannon, so the Turkish jet must of overflew the air defense battery in question at low altitude.

Syria urgently needs to secure it's borders and they are quite right to deter Turkish aggression. As Lebanon is acting as a supply corridor and Syria's regime will need to deprive these Islamist militants of supplies. If they are to prevent them from further destabilizing the country.

In addition to dislodging Russia from their flank. The Turks don't want Syria to move any closer to Iraq. As this would slowly erode their regional monopoly on trade, since Syria has access to the Mediterranean and it can import and compress Iraqi gas and oil. Then ship it on to Europe directly; bypassing Turkish energy corridors.

There used to be a direct pipeline between Irak and Syrian coast, built in 1952.
Later, when the rift between 2 Baas regimes of Assad and Saddam, this was closed, and the first pipe was built from Kirkuk fields and Occupied Cilicia (Aka Ceyhan)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18571191

[retro]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

There used to be a direct pipeline between Irak and Syrian coast, built in 1952.
Later, when the rift between 2 Baas regimes of Assad and Saddam, this was closed, and the first pipe was built from Kirkuk fields and Occupied Cilicia (Aka Ceyhan)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18571191

The market for gas is in Europe and it pays far more for gas than the likes of China. The Kirkuk–Baniyas pipeline is only a small oil pipeline. However now Syria has all sorts of deals with Iraq and Iran.

The Kurds would love to annex part of Northern Syria and the Israelis and Arabs in the south certainly aren't to be trusted. As for sure Syria is valuable geostrategic real estate. However now that Egypt has turned Islamist, the Gulf states are worried, since Syria is right on their doorstep.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

Turkey seeks diplomacy not war
By Jonathan Marcus
BBC diplomatic correspondent

+ +

Or as George Orwell might have put it:

Ministry of Peace seeks peace not war
By Jonathan Marcus
Ministry of Truth peace correspondent

[Mher]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

Another Armenian is killed in Syria

June 25, 2012 | 14:54

YEREVAN. – Another Armenian has lost his life as a result of the clashes in Homs, Syria.

This time the victim was Raffi Ibrahim Cadmus, who was born in the city of Tel-Abyat, MFA Press Secretary Tigran Balayan told Armenian News-NEWS.am.

So far, Cadmus is the fifth Armenian who is killed in Syria.

http://news.am/eng/news/110917.html

RIP

[Federate]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

Make that 6 Armenians. A soldier in the army was killed in Homs. RIP to our martyr Jalal Melkon Matosian born 1992 (((

[Vahram]

Re: Bashar al-Assad, Syria and the Armenian people

"Jalal Melkon Matosian"

When they finish killing the brave, they will finish the chicks and babies next

Seems some things never change, it always goes down the same. Now how the hell do we get these Armo's back to Armenia? And the bigger question is not how we pool our money and pay for the flight, the bigger question is what do they do when they get there? You know sometimes I get sick and tired of being an Armenian!

The only good thing about this is that this is the line in the sand! How this plays out will be very telling in the days to come. Either Sooria will be held, or else WWIII! Sadly we Armenians will be in the thick of it one way or another! Some things never change! Did I already say I was tired of being an Armo? ...Yes I did, never mind