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Re: Regional geopolitics
That is why I am urging you not to post one sided articles from lragir etc... The foreign funded media. Not to become propagandist of unproven twisted news or forecasts. Not to engage in plots to weaken or destroy our government in color revolution schemes funded from abroad.
Not to direct our people of some false promises from elsewhere.
We, at this moment are allies with Russia by an existential necessity. Do not work in s plot convincing our people that there is a false choice out there, until there will be viable and safer one.
This thing you should keep until there is a fundamental change from west. Not imagined containment a and supposed "saving our ass".
When there will be that change, then, after checking all the facts, allow or become the announcer of "sensational" news or commentaries.
Do not become pert of plot in creating despair and dissatisfaction in our people against their own government( not that government does not deserve it, I the people that don' need it).
Engage in constructive opposition building. Fight against influence from anybody. Etc...
Originally posted by Vrej1915
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So??
What are you arguing about?
Nothing you said contradict what I said, and is all question of chronology.
Erratum: In Brest Litovsk, Russia was not only giving Western Armenia conquered during the war, but It was also Giving Kars Ardahan, that were not war conquests, but parts of Eastern Armenia incorporated in the Russian Empire in XIX..., plus, it gave away Igdir, that Previously was NOT part of the Ottoman Empire, and was conquered from Persia...
French Treason in Kilikia is of course unexcusable, but it is also true, that it is the consequence of the russian bolshevik alliance with Kemal.
Same as the loss and non intervention of entente navy in Zmurnya....
The core of the shift, in Turkey's fate was:
1- The fact that some turkish officers and valis, mostly the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide, and thus the benefactors of the huge theft it resulted in, had too much to loose from a defeated turkish reality, and were ready to fight in a desperate run, much as the Nazi SS regiments in a falling Reich in April 45. They rallied around Mustafa Kemal. This fundamental reality is the core of the turkish denial since then of the Genocide, since the founders of modern turkey are the same war criminals.
2- The fact that bolshevik Russia not only abandoned huge sections of its previous territory in Brest Litovsk, but it shifted its side and shifted alliance by becoming active partner of that Kemalists, by helping financially and militarily the same turkish rebellion. Arms shipment, reverse stabbing of Armenian Republic by military invasion from the North and East , Russian bolshevik XI army... and sabotage from within by Armenian Bolsheviks....
So without the russian help, the probability Kemal would succeed was much smaller, if not nill.
All the resulting shift of situations are the result of not only Kemalist victories, but by the specter of a bolshevik arrival on the mediterranean shores...
Turks are good diplomats.
The same tactic threat, this time with an alliance with Hitler gave them the Alexandrette Sanjak in 1939.
So France selled Kilikia twice.
In 1921-22, and yet again in 1939.
Nevertheless, facts remain facts.
Russia saved modern Turkey in 1918-1921.
Russia is responsible of our actual fate, if not as much, then slightly after Turkey, but surely more than the Kurds, and the rest of allied entente nations....
This said, we will learn nothing if we do not accept our guilt.
Our guilt, is beleiving others, and beleiving that some other nation would risk the live of its sons for our well being.
Things like that rarely happen.
And if they do, never with Russia, Britain, Persia or France...
We must have remained united against all odds, refused slave mentality/ russophilia, at the core of armenian bolshevik treason, and any other X-philias, even if they were much less present and harmful...
There were objective reasons, first, the absence of an elite, educated and well informed class,..... huge refugee problems, starvation..... nevertheless, we had at our disposal huge arms quantities in Kars and Karin fortresses, we should have organised and fought for ourselves, against all odds.
No matter the excuses, and excuses there were a lot, we failed, because we beleived someone else would help us.
We did fight a couple of times hopelessly, out of despair, and it saved our day.
Sardarabat, ...., but yet again in Zankezur, where Njdeh did fight against all odds, against all expectations, firing on russian soldiers and their armenian servants bolsheviks..
Just same way, we faught the Artsakh war against all odds, and won, when we learned to fire on russian soldiers too....
No one helped us, (minor details put aside, and surely not russian), no major help, from ANY power.
Contrary, virtually everybody helped the enemy.
Yet we won, because we decided we will fight and die if necessary, but not wait others helping hand.
So no need to distort history, even if the lessons it teaches us are cruel and disturbing for our nowdays peace of mind.
That's not to say, we do not need to find alliances.
We of course do, and much more than any other nation. (let us beggin by having an Armebian foreign misnister??).
But as history and basics of diplomacy teach, no alliance are eternal.....
Our only difference, is that we have the unluck of an eternal enemy.
Russia was acting like an enemy in 91-92 (Goltzo, Shahumian, Martakert)
Russia did act an enemy in 2008, just after 888, with the Medvedev plan.
Russia is acting like an enemy today, by arming to the teeth our enemy.
The US was acting as an enemy in the 92, by the Goble plan.
The US was acting like an enemy in 2001, Key West...
Yet same Russia acted as an ally, when giving us some tactical advance in 1996, giving us time to breath.
Yet same US acted as an ally by blocking Medvedev plan, and is still doing same today.... not out of our interests. Out of their interests, of course.
Tomorrow, when Russia will be in deep xxxx, they may as well act as allies...
Tomorrow the US may well act as an enemy, if we are considered as being part of Russia....
-------
NB: I still wait your explanation on US arms supplies to enemies of Israel. Remember??
What are you arguing about?
Nothing you said contradict what I said, and is all question of chronology.
Erratum: In Brest Litovsk, Russia was not only giving Western Armenia conquered during the war, but It was also Giving Kars Ardahan, that were not war conquests, but parts of Eastern Armenia incorporated in the Russian Empire in XIX..., plus, it gave away Igdir, that Previously was NOT part of the Ottoman Empire, and was conquered from Persia...
French Treason in Kilikia is of course unexcusable, but it is also true, that it is the consequence of the russian bolshevik alliance with Kemal.
Same as the loss and non intervention of entente navy in Zmurnya....
The core of the shift, in Turkey's fate was:
1- The fact that some turkish officers and valis, mostly the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide, and thus the benefactors of the huge theft it resulted in, had too much to loose from a defeated turkish reality, and were ready to fight in a desperate run, much as the Nazi SS regiments in a falling Reich in April 45. They rallied around Mustafa Kemal. This fundamental reality is the core of the turkish denial since then of the Genocide, since the founders of modern turkey are the same war criminals.
2- The fact that bolshevik Russia not only abandoned huge sections of its previous territory in Brest Litovsk, but it shifted its side and shifted alliance by becoming active partner of that Kemalists, by helping financially and militarily the same turkish rebellion. Arms shipment, reverse stabbing of Armenian Republic by military invasion from the North and East , Russian bolshevik XI army... and sabotage from within by Armenian Bolsheviks....
So without the russian help, the probability Kemal would succeed was much smaller, if not nill.
All the resulting shift of situations are the result of not only Kemalist victories, but by the specter of a bolshevik arrival on the mediterranean shores...
Turks are good diplomats.
The same tactic threat, this time with an alliance with Hitler gave them the Alexandrette Sanjak in 1939.
So France selled Kilikia twice.
In 1921-22, and yet again in 1939.
Nevertheless, facts remain facts.
Russia saved modern Turkey in 1918-1921.
Russia is responsible of our actual fate, if not as much, then slightly after Turkey, but surely more than the Kurds, and the rest of allied entente nations....
This said, we will learn nothing if we do not accept our guilt.
Our guilt, is beleiving others, and beleiving that some other nation would risk the live of its sons for our well being.
Things like that rarely happen.
And if they do, never with Russia, Britain, Persia or France...
We must have remained united against all odds, refused slave mentality/ russophilia, at the core of armenian bolshevik treason, and any other X-philias, even if they were much less present and harmful...
There were objective reasons, first, the absence of an elite, educated and well informed class,..... huge refugee problems, starvation..... nevertheless, we had at our disposal huge arms quantities in Kars and Karin fortresses, we should have organised and fought for ourselves, against all odds.
No matter the excuses, and excuses there were a lot, we failed, because we beleived someone else would help us.
We did fight a couple of times hopelessly, out of despair, and it saved our day.
Sardarabat, ...., but yet again in Zankezur, where Njdeh did fight against all odds, against all expectations, firing on russian soldiers and their armenian servants bolsheviks..
Just same way, we faught the Artsakh war against all odds, and won, when we learned to fire on russian soldiers too....
No one helped us, (minor details put aside, and surely not russian), no major help, from ANY power.
Contrary, virtually everybody helped the enemy.
Yet we won, because we decided we will fight and die if necessary, but not wait others helping hand.
So no need to distort history, even if the lessons it teaches us are cruel and disturbing for our nowdays peace of mind.
That's not to say, we do not need to find alliances.
We of course do, and much more than any other nation. (let us beggin by having an Armebian foreign misnister??).
But as history and basics of diplomacy teach, no alliance are eternal.....
Our only difference, is that we have the unluck of an eternal enemy.
Russia was acting like an enemy in 91-92 (Goltzo, Shahumian, Martakert)
Russia did act an enemy in 2008, just after 888, with the Medvedev plan.
Russia is acting like an enemy today, by arming to the teeth our enemy.
The US was acting as an enemy in the 92, by the Goble plan.
The US was acting like an enemy in 2001, Key West...
Yet same Russia acted as an ally, when giving us some tactical advance in 1996, giving us time to breath.
Yet same US acted as an ally by blocking Medvedev plan, and is still doing same today.... not out of our interests. Out of their interests, of course.
Tomorrow, when Russia will be in deep xxxx, they may as well act as allies...
Tomorrow the US may well act as an enemy, if we are considered as being part of Russia....
-------
NB: I still wait your explanation on US arms supplies to enemies of Israel. Remember??
Not to direct our people of some false promises from elsewhere.
We, at this moment are allies with Russia by an existential necessity. Do not work in s plot convincing our people that there is a false choice out there, until there will be viable and safer one.
This thing you should keep until there is a fundamental change from west. Not imagined containment a and supposed "saving our ass".
When there will be that change, then, after checking all the facts, allow or become the announcer of "sensational" news or commentaries.
Do not become pert of plot in creating despair and dissatisfaction in our people against their own government( not that government does not deserve it, I the people that don' need it).
Engage in constructive opposition building. Fight against influence from anybody. Etc...
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