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My Reservations with the Dashnaks

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  • My Reservations with the Dashnaks

    I have always supported the Dashnak message of Armenian nationalism and patriotism, and the fact that it has also gone beyond Armenia's borders and united the diaspora. However, the reason I've never become a "full-blooded" Dashnak is a couple reservations I've always had regarding them. Hopefully, some of those reservations can be resolved here. My first is the fact that their ideology is associated with Marxism and Socialism. I've always had a hard time seeing how ethnic nationalist and marxism work together. More than that, I am not a Marxist, and believe in the mixed model (e.g. Nordic Model). I also think that the main focus of the Dashnaks should be Armenian nationalism and they should drop the socialist ideals.

    What has also troubled me is that the Dashnaks don't emphasise religion that much, and I believe part of Armenian nationalism should be our Armenian Apostolic Church and our faith. I guess this is related to the socialist ideals that are rather anti-religion. Thus, I have tended to side with the Republican Party of Armenia, though still supported the Dashnaks, of course supporting Republicans first.

    The Republican Party's national conservative ideology is based on tseghakron, an early 20th century Armenian nationalist ideology (roughly translated as "nation-religion"). It was formulated by Garegin Nzhdeh and holds that the Armenian national identity and state should carry religious significance for all ethnic Armenians.
    Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
    ---
    "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

  • #2
    Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

    Originally posted by Mos View Post
    I have always supported the Dashnak message of Armenian nationalism and patriotism, and the fact that it has also gone beyond Armenia's borders and united the diaspora. However, the reason I've never become a "full-blooded" Dashnak is a couple reservations I've always had regarding them. Hopefully, some of those reservations can be resolved here. My first is the fact that their ideology is associated with Marxism and Socialism. I've always had a hard time seeing how ethnic nationalist and marxism work together. More than that, I am not a Marxist, and believe in the mixed model (e.g. Nordic Model). I also think that the main focus of the Dashnaks should be Armenian nationalism and they should drop the socialist ideals.

    What has also troubled me is that the Dashnaks don't emphasise religion that much, and I believe part of Armenian nationalism should be our Armenian Apostolic Church and our faith. I guess this is related to the socialist ideals that are rather anti-religion. Thus, I have tended to side with the Republican Party of Armenia, though still supported the Dashnaks, of course supporting Republicans first.
    I have reservations about the dashnaks to but they are opposite of yours. You hate socialism yet the standard of living for armenian citizens has never been as high as it was under socialism. You preach religion well there is no better way to currupt and destroy a nation then to put it into the hands of religious nutts. My reservations with the dashnaks stem from their lack of inteligence among their rank and file along with a nice hint of racism. Hell even fellow armenians are discriminated against by dashnaks based on religion, political affiliation..etc... The dashnaks are not the progressive types i hope to lead our nation to new hights and they have been caught with their pants down so many times its pittyfull and the armenian people have paid dearly for their mistakes. For those who fear or do not understand socialism - just look at argentina, brazil, venninzualla..there are may socialist countries which rejected capitalism and the big bankers and emerged richer, stronger and with better living conditions for their people. The typical dashnak is a loud mouth who talks big but does nothing-for all those loud mouthed,hairy chestpounding screamers you will be lucky to find 1 in ten who has visited armenia or actually gives a xxxx about our nation and its people. Armenia badly needs a progressive party with nation building as its main goal. My family donates every year to projects like the armenia fund because they are all about nation building and we need more people supporting nation building and progress. I hope i live to see the day when the standard of living in armenia will surpass that enjoyed by armenias citizens during the height of the soviet union-such a goal may seem a low expectation since it has been so long since the collapse of the soviet union but the unfortunate reality is that capitalism means most people in that society are gona get raped up the arse and that is exactly what has happened to armenia and will continue to happen so long as capitalism reigns in the country. For those living in the USA a good comparison is the capitalist usa and the somewhat socialist canada. The quality of life of the avarage canadian citizen is far better then that of the usa citizen. Socialism is making a comeback around the world but armenia is in the hands of he oligarchs who will make sure socialism is dead in hayastan.
    Hayastan or Bust.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

      Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
      I have reservations about the dashnaks to but they are opposite of yours. You hate socialism yet the standard of living for armenian citizens has never been as high as it was under socialism. You preach religion well there is no better way to currupt and destroy a nation then to put it into the hands of religious nutts. My reservations with the dashnaks stem from their lack of inteligence among their rank and file along with a nice hint of racism. Hell even fellow armenians are discriminated against by dashnaks based on religion, political affiliation..etc... The dashnaks are not the progressive types i hope to lead our nation to new hights and they have been caught with their pants down so many times its pittyfull and the armenian people have paid dearly for their mistakes. For those who fear or do not understand socialism - just look at argentina, brazil, venninzualla..there are may socialist countries which rejected capitalism and the big bankers and emerged richer, stronger and with better living conditions for their people. The typical dashnak is a loud mouth who talks big but does nothing-for all those loud mouthed,hairy chestpounding screamers you will be lucky to find 1 in ten who has visited armenia or actually gives a xxxx about our nation and its people. Armenia badly needs a progressive party with nation building as its main goal. My family donates every year to projects like the armenia fund because they are all about nation building and we need more people supporting nation building and progress. I hope i live to see the day when the standard of living in armenia will surpass that enjoyed by armenias citizens during the height of the soviet union-such a goal may seem a low expectation since it has been so long since the collapse of the soviet union but the unfortunate reality is that capitalism means most people in that society are gona get raped up the arse and that is exactly what has happened to armenia and will continue to happen so long as capitalism reigns in the country. For those living in the USA a good comparison is the capitalist usa and the somewhat socialist canada. The quality of life of the avarage canadian citizen is far better then that of the usa citizen. Socialism is making a comeback around the world but armenia is in the hands of he oligarchs who will make sure socialism is dead in hayastan.
      I wouldn't use the word 'hate' when it comes to socialism, after all I believe in a mixed model economy that is visible in the Scandinavian countries. I don't like the very neo-liberal economic policies in place in Armenia today as I think it benefits the oligarchs more than the people. Nor do I suggest that any type of religious rule be brought to Armenia. I want a nationalistic political party that isn't Fascist nor Marxist, but has moderate economic policies, but focuses also on society and social values, and of course for such a group/party to be heavily focused in Armenia, and a party that doesn't serve the oligarchs.
      Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
      ---
      "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

        Originally posted by Mos View Post
        I have always supported the Dashnak message of Armenian nationalism and patriotism, and the fact that it has also gone beyond Armenia's borders and united the diaspora. However, the reason I've never become a "full-blooded" Dashnak is a couple reservations I've always had regarding them. Hopefully, some of those reservations can be resolved here. My first is the fact that their ideology is associated with Marxism and Socialism. I've always had a hard time seeing how ethnic nationalist and marxism work together. More than that, I am not a Marxist, and believe in the mixed model (e.g. Nordic Model). I also think that the main focus of the Dashnaks should be Armenian nationalism and they should drop the socialist ideals.

        What has also troubled me is that the Dashnaks don't emphasise religion that much, and I believe part of Armenian nationalism should be our Armenian Apostolic Church and our faith. I guess this is related to the socialist ideals that are rather anti-religion. Thus, I have tended to side with the Republican Party of Armenia, though still supported the Dashnaks, of course supporting Republicans first.
        Socialism is too broad of a term. It can be characterised as anything from centrist politics (in the US, this is socialism lol) to extreme left (anarcho-communism).

        Dashnak "socialism" is actually pretty moderate, even historically. The two traditional and oldest parties (Hunchak and Dashnak) in fact have not united because the Dashnaktsutyun is, according to the Hunchaks, not socialist enough. How nationalism and socialism work together is actually very simple. By "socialism", the Dashnaks refer to their fiscal policy mainly. Basically, the Nordic mixed economy model is what Dashnaktsutyun's ideology calls for more or less. Limited state intervention into the economy, higher minimum wage etc. but with the presence of a market economy. Kinda like the social democracies found all over Europe too. I would characterise them as centre-left in terms of fiscal policies.

        For religion, Dashnaktsutyun has relied on the church to unite Armenians in the Diaspora. When Dashnaks established communities, they would build a church and a community centre around it. Basically, from what I have noticed, the church for them is a point of unison. They don't shove religion down people's throats, true. But they recognise the church's importance. Catholicos Aram I himself is a de-facto Dashnak And what you espouse, that part of our nationalism should be our faith in the Apostolic Church, is in 100% agreement with Catholicos Aram I (who IMO, is a far superior leader than Karekin II). There are very religious Dashnaks and there are atheist Dashnaks.
        Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

          Originally posted by Federate View Post
          Socialism is too broad of a term. It can be characterised as anything from centrist politics (in the US, this is socialism lol) to extreme left (anarcho-communism).

          Dashnak "socialism" is actually pretty moderate, even historically. The two traditional and oldest parties (Hunchak and Dashnak) in fact have not united because the Dashnaktsutyun is, according to the Hunchaks, not socialist enough. How nationalism and socialism work together is actually very simple. By "socialism", the Dashnaks refer to their fiscal policy mainly. Basically, the Nordic mixed economy model is what Dashnaktsutyun's ideology calls for more or less. Limited state intervention into the economy, higher minimum wage etc. but with the presence of a market economy. Kinda like the social democracies found all over Europe too. I would characterise them as centre-left in terms of fiscal policies.

          For religion, Dashnaktsutyun has relied on the church to unite Armenians in the Diaspora. When Dashnaks established communities, they would build a church and a community centre around it. Basically, from what I have noticed, the church for them is a point of unison. They don't shove religion down people's throats, true. But they recognise the church's importance. Catholicos Aram I himself is a de-facto Dashnak And what you espouse, that part of our nationalism should be our faith in the Apostolic Church, is in 100% agreement with Catholicos Aram I (who IMO, is a far superior leader than Karekin II). There are very religious Dashnaks and there are atheist Dashnaks.
          If they advocate the mixed model, than it's much better. I have always gotten the impression that they employed a more Marxist ideology, that completely rejected capitalism and free markets.

          Aren't Dashnaks also at odds with Karekin and the Ejmiatsin centred church? Another interesting thing is the relations between Dashnaks and ruling Republican Party.
          Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
          ---
          "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

            Originally posted by Mos View Post
            If they advocate the mixed model, than it's much better. I have always gotten the impression that they employed a more Marxist ideology, that completely rejected capitalism and free markets.
            That's more the Hunchak (SDHP) party-line than the Dashnaktsutyun's.

            Aren't Dashnaks also at odds with Karekin and the Ejmiatsin centred church? Another interesting thing is the relations between Dashnaks and ruling Republican Party.
            Dashnaks were historically at odds with the Ejmiatsin seat over their accusations that the Ejmiatsin catholicos was being used as a Soviet mouthpiece but since Armenia gained independence, those things are pretty much buried. Aram I and Karekin II regularly meet for example and Dashnaks host Karekin when he goes on trips abroad (rare times he does).

            The relationship between the Dashnaks and Republican party have many rumours. The most prominent street talk is that Vahan Hovhannisyan from ARF and Serge Sargsyan are related to each other through marriage and that's why the ARF would never call for Serge Sagrsyan's removal. I think the more logical explanation is that the ARF sees Serge Sargsyan as a lesser evil (compared to alternative LTP, who the ARF despises, the feeling being mutual) and continue to "tolerate" him for the sake of political stability. The main beef between ARF and Republican party was the Armenian-Turkish protocols. Kocharyan was not supportive of the protocols and that's part of the reason why the ARF and Kocharyan remain cordial. The other reason is that Kocharyan reverse LTP's decision to outlaw the ARF in Armenia.
            Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

              I always laugh when I am reminded that the Republican party of Armenia supposedly follows Njdeh's ideology. Njdeh for much of his life was a Dashnak ironically and his idea of tseghakron is what led to the founding of the Armenian Youth Federation (AYF), the youth branch of the Dashnaktsutyun. Tseghakron (nation-religion) is more about turning the Armenian national identity into a religion itself than a belief in God. I have no idea how the RPA applies this.
              Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

                Originally posted by Federate View Post
                That's more the Hunchak (SDHP) party-line than the Dashnaktsutyun's.


                Dashnaks were historically at odds with the Ejmiatsin seat over their accusations that the Ejmiatsin catholicos was being used as a Soviet mouthpiece but since Armenia gained independence, those things are pretty much buried. Aram I and Karekin II regularly meet for example and Dashnaks host Karekin when he goes on trips abroad (rare times he does).

                The relationship between the Dashnaks and Republican party have many rumours. The most prominent street talk is that Vahan Hovhannisyan from ARF and Serge Sargsyan are related to each other through marriage and that's why the ARF would never call for Serge Sagrsyan's removal. I think the more logical explanation is that the ARF sees Serge Sargsyan as a lesser evil (compared to alternative LTP, who the ARF despises, the feeling being mutual) and continue to "tolerate" him for the sake of political stability. The main beef between ARF and Republican party was the Armenian-Turkish protocols. Kocharyan was not supportive of the protocols and that's part of the reason why the ARF and Kocharyan remain cordial. The other reason is that Kocharyan reverse LTP's decision to outlaw the ARF in Armenia.
                If Kocharyan comes back I think ARF may support him over Sargsyan, even with the family connection between Hovhannisyan and Sargsyan. Sargsyan has poor relations with Putin because of his awarding of Saakashvili of a Medal just following the August War. Kocharyan is best friends with Putin. With Putin coming back to Presidency and if Sargsyan stays, relations between Armenia and Russia may be a little shaky at first. I agree with ARF on disagreeing with the Turkish protocols. They were a huge mistake and the concessions that we may have given were just unacceptable. It was in the interest of the West, thus they used all the pressure they could to get Sargsyan on board.
                Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
                ---
                "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

                  Originally posted by Federate View Post
                  I always laugh when I am reminded that the Republican party of Armenia supposedly follows Njdeh's ideology. Njdeh for much of his life was a Dashnak ironically and his idea of tseghakron is what led to the founding of the Armenian Youth Federation (AYF), the youth branch of the Dashnaktsutyun. Tseghakron (nation-religion) is more about turning the Armenian national identity into a religion itself than a belief in God. I have no idea how the RPA applies this.
                  How would a national identity be turned into a religion?

                  Well the goals of the HHK are pretty ambitious:

                  Հիմնադրույթներ

                  Հայաստանի Հանրապետական կուսակցությունը (ՀՀԿ) ազգային պահպանողական կուսակցություն է:
                  ՀՀԿ նպատակներն ու գործունեությունը բխում են Ազգի եւ Հայրենիքի հավիտենության գաղափարներից:
                  Հայության բնօրրանը Հայկական բարձրավանդակն է, որը հայոց աստվածատուր հայրենիքն է:

                  Հայոց գերագույն նպատակը, որ իմաստավորումն է իր աստվածաստեղծ գոյության, հարատևումն է Հայրենիքում, հաստատումը իր կենսական ուժի, ստեղծագործ հանճարի ու ազատ կամքի: Այդ նպատակի իրագործման գրավականը Հայ ազգային գաղափարախոսությունն է, որում, ՀՀԿ համոզումով, էական տեղ ունի Գարեգին Նժդեհի ուսմունքը: Հայ ազգային գաղափարախոսությունը կառուցվում է հայոց արժեհամակարգի ու պատմամշակութային փորձի զուգակցումով` ազգային եւ համամարդկային արժեքների համադրմամբ: Այն պետք է ամրապնդի հայության հավատը սեփական ուժերի ու ապագայի նկատմամբ եւ իբրեւ գաղափարախոսական համակարգ` մշտապես զարգացում ապրի:

                  Աստծո կամոք մենք արարվել ենք որպես հայեր, հետեւապես` մեր և Աստծո միջև հարատեւ կապն ապահովվում է Հայ տեսակը հավիտենականացնելու ճանապարհով: Այս ելակետն ունենալով, ՀՀԿ-ն մեր պատմության հեթանոսական եւ քրիստոնեական ժամանակաշրջանները արժեւորում է ազգայինի առաջնայնության սկզբունքով:
                  Բարձր գնահատելով Հայ Առաքելական եկեղեցու դերը հայ ժողովրդի հոգեւոր կյանքում, հայոց լեզվի ու մշակույթի, դրանով իսկ` հայության միասնության պահպանման գործում, ՀՀԿ-ն այն համարում է հայ ինքնության անբաժան մաս և ազգային աշխարհասփյուռ կառույց, որն իր դավանաբանությամբ, նվիրապետությամբ կոչված է ծառայելու Աստծուն և Ազգին:

                  Հայ իրականության մեջ գործող բոլոր հասարակական, քաղաքական ուժերի, անհատների հետ Հայաստանի Հանրապետական կուսակցությունն իր հարաբերությունները կառուցում է ազգային եւ պետական շահերի առաջնայնության սկզբունքով, որոնք բարձր է դասում անձնական և հատվածական շահերից:

                  Պետության գործունեության հիմնական սկզբունքների եւ ուղղությունների վերաբերյալ Հայաստանի Հանրապետական կուսակցությունն ունի հետևյալ մոտեցումները.
                  Հայոց պետությունը հայության նպատակների իրականացման հիմնական եւ ամենաարդյունավետ միջոցն է: Պետական կառավարման ձեւը, կախված իրականացվող նպատակների, ծրագրերի լուծման արդյունավետությունից, կարող է փոխվել պետության զարգացման տարբեր փուլերում, իսկ կառավարման համակարգի գործունեությունը պետք է հիմնված լինի իրավունքի գերակայության, օրենքի իշխանության, ազգային անվտանգության եւ զարգացման հայեցակարգերի ու ծրագրերի վրա: Պետությունը պետք է աջակցի քաղաքական համակարգի զարգացմանը, ժողովրդավարության կայացմանը, մասնակի եւ փուլային բարեփոխումների ճանապարհով` հասարակության անընդհատ բարելավմանը: Ցանկացած բարեփոխում պետք է համապատասխանի հասարակության ավանդական արժեհամակարգին` ուղղված լինելով դրա արդիականացմանը:

                  Արտաքին քաղաքականության ոլորտում պետության գործունեությունը պետք է ուղղված լինի հարեւան երկրների հետ բարիդրացիական եւ կայուն հարաբերությունների հաստամանն ու պահպանմանը, միջազգային հանրությանը բնականոն ինտեգրմանը, նրանում Հայաստանի դերի մեծացմանը, աշխարհի բոլոր երկրների հետ փոխշահավետ քաղաքական, տնտեսական, մշակութային եւ այլ կապերի զարգացմանը:

                  Հայոց պետության տնտեսական քաղաքականությունը պետք է հիմնված լինի համաշխարհային փորձի վրա` հաշվի առնելով ազգային առանձնահատկությունները: Պետությունը պետք է ապահովի տնտեսության պետական եւ մասնավոր հատվածների արդյունավետ համագործակցության համար նպաստավոր պայմաններ` հանդես գալով որպես սեփականության բազմաձեւության եւ ազատական տնտեսական համակարգի զարգացման երաշխավոր:

                  Հայոց պետության գլխավոր հարստությունն ազգի եւ պետության հանդեպ պատասխանատվության գիտակցում ունեցող մարդն է` իր ֆիզիկական, մտավոր եւ բարոյական ներուժով: Պետությունը պետք է ապահովի իր քաղաքացիների անվտանգությունը, պաշտպանի նրանց արժանապատվությունը, երաշխավորի անհատի իրավունքների եւ ազատությունների զարգացումը, կարողությունների լիարժեք իրացումը: Պետությունը պետք է արդյունավետ միջոցառումներ իրականացնի իր քաղաքացիների կենսապահովման պայմանների բավարարման համար անհրաժեշտ միջավայր ստեղծելու ուղղությամբ, ըստ արժանվույն գնահատի նրանց վաստակը Հայրենիքի առջեւ:

                  Հայ հասարակության հիմքն ավանդական ընտանիքն է: Ամուր եւ առողջ ընտանիքների ձեւավորումը, ընտանիքում ազգային-ավանդական արժեքների պահպանումն ու զարգացումը պետք է լինեն պետության կարեւորագույն խնդիրներից:

                  Կրթությունը պետք է անհատին տա խոր եւ բազմակողմանի գիտելիքներ, միաժամանակ ապահովելով այն բանի գիտակցումը, որ դրանք պետք է ծառայեն ինչպես անձնական բարօրությանը, այնպես էլ Ազգի եւ Հայրենիքի հզորացմանը: Կրթության համակարգը պետք է ձեւավորի մարդկային եւ ազգային բարձր արժեքներ դավանող սերունդ` հաղորդակից մարդկայնորեն վեհ հայոց հոգեւոր, գաղափարական և բարոյական արժեքներին, նախնիների մեծագործություններին ու կորուստներին` պարզաբանելով մարդկության զարգացման այն օրինաչափությունը, թե մեծագործությունները պայմանավորված են ժողովուրդների ոգու, որով եւ գաղափարի ազնվությամբ ու զորությամբ, իսկ կորուստները` դրանց թուլությամբ: Պետությունը պետք է անվճար միջնակարգ ուսման հնարավորություն ապահովի բոլորի համար եւ հովանավորի առավել օժտվածների բարձրագույն կրթությունը:

                  Գիտությունն ու մշակույթը պետք է ծառայեն ազգի հոգևոր եւ նյութական արժեքների վերականգնմանը, պահպանմանն ու զարգացմանը, բացահայտեն հայի տոհմիկ կերպարը, աշխարհընկալումը եւ կենսակերպը: Մշակույթն ու գիտությունը պետք է իրականացնեն ազգային ավանդույթների ու գիտատեխնիկական առաջընթացի զուգակցումը` մեր երկրի համար աշխարհում ապահովելով բարոյահոգեբանական, մտավոր և տեխնոլոգիական առաջնակարգ դիրքեր:
                  Կրթությունը, գիտությունը եւ մշակույթը պետք է լինեն պետական հոգածության հիմնական առարկա:

                  Պետությունը պետք է բարենպաստ պայմաններ ստեղծի սփյուռքահայության ներուժի համախմբման համար` ի նպաստ Հայոց պետության հզորացման եւ Սփյուռքի արժանապատիվ գոյատեւման, հիմնական նպատակ ունենալով սփյուռքահայության վերադարձը Հայրենիք:
                  Մեկ Ազգ, Մեկ Մշակույթ
                  ---
                  "Western Assimilation is the greatest threat to the Armenian nation since the Armenian Genocide."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

                    I have to say that I have respect for Tashnags and by far they send fighters to help fight the babboons. As far as all the talk about going against the Armenian church this has to be taken into context. For a long time Armenia according to us diasporians was that Armenia was not free! You have to look at this from this perspective.

                    Long after Armenia was gone, the Tashnags hug on to the flag! Now the flag of Armenia has been restored!

                    I have never been a Tashnag becuase most of my family is A.G.B.U ilk :-) Me being the exception so I have had reservations as well, but I'm rethinking my stance.

                    Getze Hayastan!

                    Comment

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