My Reservations with the Dashnaks

[Serjik]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Are we talking about the same ARF? Bro what you just write reads like a childrens fairytale story. Maybe it will work on kids. Most ARF members are fine (but many hate Armenia) but in the ARF leaders there are many spys and enemies of Armenia. Idiot in LA were goign to boycot the Armenian presidents here. You didnt hear that? Hrayr Hovanissian is fine. But Katolikos Aram sucks cuz he is a freemason and he is also one of Armenias enemies and he hates Echmiadzin. Didnt you see him attack Armenia on Armenian independence day? A good well connected friend from Armenia said that the ARF has been on Russian KGBs watch list UNTIL today.

That's more the Hunchak (SDHP) party-line than the Dashnaktsutyun's. Dashnaks were historically at odds with the Ejmiatsin seat over their accusations that the Ejmiatsin catholicos was being used as a Soviet mouthpiece but since Armenia gained independence, those things are pretty much buried. Aram I and Karekin II regularly meet for example and Dashnaks host Karekin when he goes on trips abroad (rare times he does).

The relationship between the Dashnaks and Republican party have many rumours. The most prominent street talk is that Vahan Hovhannisyan from ARF and Serge Sargsyan are related to each other through marriage and that's why the ARF would never call for Serge Sagrsyan's removal. I think the more logical explanation is that the ARF sees Serge Sargsyan as a lesser evil (compared to alternative LTP, who the ARF despises, the feeling being mutual) and continue to "tolerate" him for the sake of political stability. The main beef between ARF and Republican party was the Armenian-Turkish protocols. Kocharyan was not supportive of the protocols and that's part of the reason why the ARF and Kocharyan remain cordial. The other reason is that Kocharyan reverse LTP's decision to outlaw the ARF in Armenia.

[Vahram]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Serjik, sadly too many Armenians are in I hate Armenia mode! This is not just for Tashnugs only, if it only was things would be easy!

[Federate]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Are we talking about the same ARF? Bro what you just write reads like a childrens fairytale story. Maybe it will work on kids. Most ARF members are fine (but many hate Armenia) but in the ARF leaders there are many spys and enemies of Armenia. Idiot in LA were goign to boycot the Armenian presidents here. You didnt hear that? Hrayr Hovanissian is fine. But Katolikos Aram sucks cuz he is a freemason and he is also one of Armenias enemies and he hates Echmiadzin. Didnt you see him attack Armenia on Armenian independence day? A good well connected friend from Armenia said that the ARF has been on Russian KGBs watch list UNTIL today.

What you wrote in general reads like something straight out of Soviet propaganda against the ARF, sorry. How can Armenians hate Armenia? Do you know that the ARF's bureau is located IN Armenia? Did you know the founders of the ARF were Russian-Armenians? Have you heard about the Dashnak brigade during the Artsakh war? Do you know that the major Armenian lobbies working for the benefit of Armenia are actually run by Dashnaktsutyun? Get real man. There are spies in every organization, it's inevitable when you get very big. LTP is the biggest spy and he's allowed to operate freely. Not much you can do. They were going to boycott the president in LA because of the Turkish-Armenian protocols but the main body in Armenia notified the LA branch to not proceed and they did not. Aram I does not hate Echmiatsin lol, I don't know where you get this stuff. Just because there are two catholicoses does not mean they automatically hate each other. He was side-by-side with Karekin II and president Sargsyan during the parade, on camera. He didn't attack Armenia, he criticized the oligarches. What is wrong with constructive criticism?

[Mher]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

One thing I will always give them great credit for is working with the youth and slowing down assimilation in the Diaspora. Though some of what they do with the youth approaches brainwashing with their political ideologies, I still respect them, because they are by far the best hope of slowing down assimilation.

[Federate]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

If Kocharyan comes back I think ARF may support him over Sargsyan, even with the family connection between Hovhannisyan and Sargsyan. Sargsyan has poor relations with Putin because of his awarding of Saakashvili of a Medal just following the August War. Kocharyan is best friends with Putin. With Putin coming back to Presidency and if Sargsyan stays, relations between Armenia and Russia may be a little shaky at first. I agree with ARF on disagreeing with the Turkish protocols. They were a huge mistake and the concessions that we may have given were just unacceptable. It was in the interest of the West, thus they used all the pressure they could to get Sargsyan on board.

I agree with your assessment except I don't think Sargsyan has poor relations with Russia. It is just not at par with Kocharyan's relations with Russia. Don't forget that it is under Serge that we signed an agreement on the Russian military base lease extension.

As for the protocols, I am against them in principle but I think Serge played it very well. We ended up being the winners since the Turks were the ones who ultimately ended up not signing them thus making them look bad.

How would a national identity be turned into a religion?

Well the goals of the HHK are pretty ambitious:

Good question! I do not know exactly how one can do it. This is purely my own speculation: You do this perhaps by erasing the lines that separate religion and ethnicity. Enforcing nationalist education. Think of how we don't know how to exactly define a J3w. What is a J3w? A religion? An ethnicity? Both at the same time? It will depend on the context and/or who you ask. Perhaps if you get the Armenian Cause to turn into a belief that is equivalent to religion. Check this video for more on Tseghakron:

[Serjik]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Bro... please your embarrassing yourself. I hang around you guy a lot to know who you guys are very well. Most of you guys hate Armenia and hate Haystantis and you guys act like you are in wierd cult. Most Dashnaks I know know better Turkish than Armenian and they act more Arabic than Armenian. Some Tseghakrons you are LOL What Katolikos Aram did was like me coming over to your birthday party and loudly talking xxxx about you LOL Would that be constructive criticism? Aram wanted to make his masters in the CIA and Freemasons feel good. We all know Aram is a 32 degree mason, you dont get that far up in the org serving God or nation. Western ARF is overloaded by CIA types! Only a handful of ARF fighters from the diaspora went to Artsakh maybe twenty-thirty. All those "ARF" fighters you see in the old pictures from the war are actually Haysatantsis and Karabaghtsis fighting under ARF flags brought from Lebanon. ARF is very good in making PR for themselves. Also major ARF headquarters exists in Greece and LA and Beirut and Langley Virginia. LOL

Guh hasgnasgor inch guhsemgor shakhs? LOL

What you wrote in general reads like something straight out of Soviet propaganda against the ARF, sorry. How can Armenians hate Armenia? Do you know that the ARF's bureau is located IN Armenia? Did you know the founders of the ARF were Russian-Armenians? Have you heard about the Dashnak brigade during the Artsakh war? Do you know that the major Armenian lobbies working for the benefit of Armenia are actually run by Dashnaktsutyun? Get real man. There are spies in every organization, it's inevitable when you get very big. LTP is the biggest spy and he's allowed to operate freely. Not much you can do. They were going to boycott the president in LA because of the Turkish-Armenian protocols but the main body in Armenia notified the LA branch to not proceed and they did not. Aram I does not hate Echmiatsin lol, I don't know where you get this stuff. Just because there are two catholicoses does not mean they automatically hate each other. He was side-by-side with Karekin II and president Sargsyan during the parade, on camera. He didn't attack Armenia, he criticized the oligarches. What is wrong with constructive criticism?

[Federate]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Bro... please your embarrassing yourself. I hang around you guy a lot to know who you guys are very well. Most of you guys hate Armenia and hate Haystantis and you guys act like you are in wierd cult. Most Dashnaks I know know better Turkish than Armenian and they act more Arabic than Armenian. Some Tseghakrons you are LOL What Katolikos Aram did was like me coming over to your birthday party and loudly talking xxxx about you LOL Would that be constructive criticism? Aram wanted to make his masters in the CIA and Freemasons feel good. We all know Aram is a 32 degree mason, you dont get that far up in the org serving God or nation. Western ARF is overloaded by CIA types! Only a handful of ARF fighters from the diaspora went to Artsakh maybe twenty-thirty. All those "ARF" fighters you see in the old pictures from the war are actually Haysatantsis and Karabaghtsis fighting under ARF flags brought from Lebanon. ARF is very good in making PR for themselves. Also major ARF headquarters exists in Greece and LA and Beirut and Langley Virginia. LOL

Guh hasgnasgor inch guhsemgor shakhs? LOL

The only one that's embarrassing himself with freemasons and other boogeymen bedtime stories is you. Who is "you guys"? Why am I a part of "these guys"? Every line that you have typed alludes to some kind of prejudice, generalisation and "akhpar"-type propaganda against your own fellow Armenians. Your definition of a Dashnak is very ignorant. Apparently, a Dashnak is a Western Armenian for you, right? Catholicos Aram I, an Armenian, was in Armenia and criticised oligarches while being proud with everybody else during the parade about our accomplishments. Where is the problem? Your CIA accusations are reminiscent of the Soviet propaganda )) You do know that the CIA's men in the US is the rival AAA right? And aren't we talking about Armenia? Do you think the ones in Armenia are CIA-infiltrated too? The same ones that worked with Kocharyan and are pro-Russian? What is the difference if the ARF members who fought under the ARF flag are Hayastantsi or Western Armenian? The ARF does not differentiate between where Armenians come from but apparently you do. Yes, thank you for pointing out that the ARF exists in many countries, who would have known .

[TomServo]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Bro... please your embarrassing yourself. I hang around you guy a lot to know who you guys are very well. Most of you guys hate Armenia and hate Haystantis and you guys act like you are in wierd cult. Most Dashnaks I know know better Turkish than Armenian and they act more Arabic than Armenian. Some Tseghakrons you are LOL What Katolikos Aram did was like me coming over to your birthday party and loudly talking xxxx about you LOL Would that be constructive criticism? Aram wanted to make his masters in the CIA and Freemasons feel good. We all know Aram is a 32 degree mason, you dont get that far up in the org serving God or nation. Western ARF is overloaded by CIA types! Only a handful of ARF fighters from the diaspora went to Artsakh maybe twenty-thirty. All those "ARF" fighters you see in the old pictures from the war are actually Haysatantsis and Karabaghtsis fighting under ARF flags brought from Lebanon. ARF is very good in making PR for themselves. Also major ARF headquarters exists in Greece and LA and Beirut and Langley Virginia. LOL

Guh hasgnasgor inch guhsemgor shakhs? LOL

This is so gross.

I'm not a member of the ARF, but maybe the reason so many are disillusioned with Armenia is because they have poured so much money into this country they are now being accused of hating and gotten nothing but scorn in return. This money is of course going to the ex-KGB officers and oligarchs we, as Armenians (all of us, not just East/West), are obliged to hold in deference? No thank you.

[Mos]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

In the end my allegiance is to the Republic over any group. I recognise that Armenia has flaws, it's natural, but I believe we've made good progress in the last 20 years. Living in Armenia in early 90s was living in a literal war zone. You had police walking around with Kalashnikovs, it was pretty brutal. Given our situation and past, I think we are making great strides and we should not bash our country, especially in the diaspora.

My heart hurt when I saw the many protesters against Serzh when he visited the US. Some of the signs they held up, even one with Serzh as Hitler. It's is totally out of line - they had no right to defame the President like that. If they don't like what he did, they should use other means, not defaming and bashing him for the whole world to see, it's childish.

I think the diaspora, especially Western diaspora like US, there are deep and unfortunate divisions within us Armenians. Though, it's expected given the different backgrounds (e.g. Soviet Armenian vs. Lebanese Armenian). But we have to work to bridge those divisions. I've heard several account on how fellow hayastancis are looked down upon by some Western Armenians and the division is easy to see in any Armenian community. If we continue to divide ourselves like this it will be bad for our future.

People have to also understand that it is more difficult for Akhpars to be as connected to Armenia as hayastancis. We have to work to make that connection easier. I think there are some lessons to be learned from Israel and how they have made J3ws around the world connect to their country.

[Serjik]

Re: My Reservations with the Dashnaks

Bro your Soviet bogyman trick dont work anylonger. Stop acting like xxxs who bring up Nazis everytime they are in an argument they cant get out of. Just tell your Tseghakron buddies to stop hating Hayastantsis and stop acting like Arabs and stop talking Armenian with a Turkish twang! Freemason are a club of elite people with lot of power. They count on simple people like you to not believe in their existence to stay powerful. There are some very good Dashnaks, some very bad. The Aram Katolikos and much of the Dashnak leaders in the west are bad Dashnaks they are agents against Armenia. Bedtime storys got you to where you are today in a cult

The only one that's embarrassing himself with freemasons and other boogeymen bedtime stories is you. Who is "you guys"? Why am I a part of "these guys"? Every line that you have typed alludes to some kind of prejudice, generalisation and "akhpar"-type propaganda against your own fellow Armenians. Your definition of a Dashnak is very ignorant. Apparently, a Dashnak is a Western Armenian for you, right? Catholicos Aram I, an Armenian, was in Armenia and criticised oligarches while being proud with everybody else during the parade about our accomplishments. Where is the problem? Your CIA accusations are reminiscent of the Soviet propaganda )) You do know that the CIA's men in the US is the rival AAA right? And aren't we talking about Armenia? Do you think the ones in Armenia are CIA-infiltrated too? The same ones that worked with Kocharyan and are pro-Russian? What is the difference if the ARF members who fought under the ARF flag are Hayastantsi or Western Armenian? The ARF does not differentiate between where Armenians come from but apparently you do. Yes, thank you for pointing out that the ARF exists in many countries, who would have known .