Politics in Hayastan

[haydavid]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Taking a police station and murdering three police officers while keeping the others hostage, to be precise. There is nothing to justify that no matter what mental gymnastics their admirers like to undertake. Its borderline textbook terrorism.

Killing off the oligarchs who wreak havoc in the nation and its economy would have been a much better alternative to killing three men whose job is to protect citizens.

The worst part of it all is that 20,000 Armenians heeded their call and went out to protest in favor of madmen with guns. Shows how desperate folks are. They are willing to find any sake to protest, as long as its against the government. The leadership should take note.

20 000 went to protest, but 80% of Armenians supported them. You are taking everything out of context. They shouldve went further, not only taking a police station but the parlement ans TV-stations. Sadly they were not prepared at all and failed badly. Why do you think that they took a police station where hundreds of guns are stored? They wanted to arm the population.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Your comments lack deep thought to an extent you are contradicting yourself.

From your own statements

You say an idea or an action that motivates 20,000 people on the streets for days on end.

This is what I said

The worst part of it all is that 20,000 Armenians heeded their call and went out to protest in favor of madmen with guns. Shows how desperate folks are. They are willing to find any sake to protest, as long as its against the government. The leadership should take note.

Read that and tell me where I mentioned that they are motivated by an idea or an action. They are motivated by their resentment towards the government. That is a feeling amongst the population. Not an ideology. The hostage crisis was an opportunity.

You say how desperate those people are and somehow they found a leadership to follow all be it illegal.

They found no leadership. Those nutters with guns told folks to run out into the streets and protest. They did it, since the feeling and yearning to protest against corrupt was already there. The gunmen gave them an opportunity to do so.

You are also indirectly suggesting those demonstrators are also madmen since the average population will not follow madmen whatever the reason.

Strawman argument. Either argue against what I actually said or don't argue at all.

My perspective is these men were not mad but patriots.

Killing Armenians makes you a patriot? I reckon the Turks are the greatest of all Armenian patriots.

The government and the state apparatus is usurped by Serjik and his Mafioso like clique. They are incompetent to govern and they are also corrupt.

There is not way to remove them for the reasons I mentioned above.

Ukrainians would like a word with you.

The only alternative was an uprising.

AS Burjuin so frequently shows us the capabilities of the police against the population, its not surprising that they or the people did not stand a chance.

You show true wisdom my friend. It is always most wise to start a bloody civil war amidst an ongoing war with another, much stronger nation. No flawed logic there whatsoever. Citizens of Armenia who think like this ought to be medicated.

Such people are not madmen but patriots and idealists.

Go to Armenia, find the wives of those officers and tell them that straight to their face. Tell them that the men who murdered their beloved husbands are heroes of Armenia, who thought they could spare the nation by literally fxxxxxx destroying it.

[Lori]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

20 000 went to protest, but 80% of Armenians supported them. You are taking everything out of context. They shouldve went further, not only taking a police station but the parlement ans TV-stations. Sadly they were not prepared at all and failed badly. Why do you think that they took a police station where hundreds of guns are stored? They wanted to arm the population.

Another backer of madmen. Good god, I understand the hatred for the government, but to want to burn the nation to the ground through a civil war? Thats just silly. You are also dreaming if you believe they could have left that building alive with hundreds of AKMs, if there were even that many AKMs inside a police station.


One of the greatest Englishmen of all time once said this:

"If you're going through hell, keep going."


If you truly want to see Armenia crawl out of the hole that it is in, the only thing that could right the situation is a military coup akin to the 2014 Thai coup. Establishment of a nationalistic junta is needed. Not a "peoples revolution" led by a fuqing Fedayi cosplayer and his friends. Get out of here with that crap.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Another backer of madmen. Good god, I understand the hatred for the government, -------.

You are not mad.
You are just disconnected from Armenia's reality.
The police in Armenia was never perceived as part of the people, let alone protector of the right of its citizens.
The police/miltzia remained very identical to its soviet legacy, as an oppression force, made to oppress the people, and only to serve its masters.
You may beleive it or not, nevertheless, even the individuals of low echelons in the miltzia addmitt in privet that they are doing a pozi job, but are forced to it out of necessity.
Anybody will tell you.

And in a small country like ours, more than once a son is forced to fire on his brother or father.

The first officer who was really shot after opening fire on the Dzurs during the assault was not a saint at all. In popular language, he was one of "them", and no matter the propaganda machine, no random citizen really cried for his loss.
For the second young policeman, there is more than doubt, that he was shot by the Dzurs. A lot of speculations, but there is more than place to doubt the official version.
The dishonesty of a judiciary system directly duplicating a mix of cccp/kgb+banana republic caricatura is such, that in any way, no one will trust what the regime says.

Ask yourself why was and still is a country like ours keeping largely more than 20.000 militzia force, armed and fed with its best equipment, while our soldiers were deprived of the potentially available means to save the country from the enemy, means that were provided partly thanks to prived initiatives weeks after 4 days war? And this according the own assessment of SS yesterday....
Considering the size of our armed forces, in a country in war on two fronts, the size of the militzia says it all....

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Typical confused individual. Cannot differentiate his a.rse from his elbow.

One minute you say killing oligarchs in the streets like south and central American banana republics
then you have ideas how to avoid civil war.

...... Killing off the oligarchs who wreak havoc in the nation and its economy would have been a much better alternative to killing three men whose job is to protect citizens.

Killing Armenians makes you a patriot? I reckon the Turks are the greatest of all Armenian patriots.

.... It is always most wise to start a bloody civil war amidst an ongoing war with another, much stronger nation. No flawed logic there whatsoever. Citizens of Armenia who think like this ought to be medicated.

PS. Criminal and illegal activity should always face the law.
No extrajudicial action or punishment.
I (we) want legal and just Hayrenik.

.

.

[Haykakan]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"The government and the state apparatus is usurped by Serjik and his Mafioso like clique. They are incompetent to govern and they are also corrupt.
"
I love it when people say this as if it is so different in o lets say USA or England where the same people will flock to. Not a supporter of this government but it would be nice to have some perspective. Linking this to soviet legacy is another stupid assumption so many seem to make as if things are so different in the countries the complainers flock to. Ever heard of FBI, NSA, Homeland Insecurity...you think their purpose is any different then the police in Armenia? I guess those are a part of the soviet legacy to If you care to look you will see that the differences are not that one government is corrupt and one is not. The real difference is the level of sophistication among the corruptors of the government. Our rennouned spy here likes to bring up Ukraine, yes by all means do go see how uncorrupt that country is now and this after going through a bloody revolution which killed many people, caused a great deal of destruction, and gave up anything and everything that country had to the same bankers that made heavty profits from our own genocide and many other misfortunes of people all over the world. These bankers are eyeing the next victim that will make its blind leap of faith and surrender their country to debt and servitude. Sure things are bad now, but thinking that things can only get better with change is a fatal flaw with lots of evidence to the contrary. Desperation makes people do stupid things, that is why it is often followed by their demise. Judging from the conversations I am reading here, you guys are getting further away from recognizing the real problems thus the solutions you will never find.

[londontsi]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

"The government and the state apparatus is usurped by Serjik and his Mafioso like clique. They are incompetent to govern and they are also corrupt.
"
I love it when people say this as if it is so different in o lets say USA or England where the same people will flock to. Not a supporter of this government but it would be nice to have some perspective. Linking this to soviet legacy is another stupid assumption so many seem to make as if things are so different in the countries the complainers flock to. Ever heard of FBI, NSA, Homeland Insecurity...you think their purpose is any different then the police in Armenia? I guess those are a part of the soviet legacy to If you care to look you will see that the differences are not that one government is corrupt and one is not. The real difference is the level of sophistication among the corruptors of the government. Our rennouned spy here likes to bring up Ukraine, yes by all means do go see how uncorrupt that country is now and this after going through a bloody revolution which killed many people, caused a great deal of destruction, and gave up anything and everything that country had to the same bankers that made heavty profits from our own genocide and many other misfortunes of people all over the world. These bankers are eyeing the next victim that will make its blind leap of faith and surrender their country to debt and servitude. Sure things are bad now, but thinking that things can only get better with change is a fatal flaw with lots of evidence to the contrary. Desperation makes people do stupid things, that is why it is often followed by their demise. Judging from the conversations I am reading here, you guys are getting further away from recognizing the real problems thus the solutions you will never find.

Comparing the USA with Armenia is simply daft.

You sound like Nero with his harp watching Rome burn and say you get fire everywhere.

Nothing there to debate I am afraid.

.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You are not mad.
You are just disconnected from Armenia's reality.
The police in Armenia was never perceived as part of the people, let alone protector of the right of its citizens.
The police/miltzia remained very identical to its soviet legacy, as an oppression force, made to oppress the people, and only to serve its masters.
You may beleive it or not, nevertheless, even the individuals of low echelons in the miltzia addmitt in privet that they are doing a pozi job, but are forced to it out of necessity.
Anybody will tell you.

And in a small country like ours, more than once a son is forced to fire on his brother or father.

The first officer who was really shot after opening fire on the Dzurs during the assault was not a saint at all. In popular language, he was one of "them", and no matter the propaganda machine, no random citizen really cried for his loss.
For the second young policeman, there is more than doubt, that he was shot by the Dzurs. A lot of speculations, but there is more than place to doubt the official version.
The dishonesty of a judiciary system directly duplicating a mix of cccp/kgb+banana republic caricatura is such, that in any way, no one will trust what the regime says.

Ask yourself why was and still is a country like ours keeping largely more than 20.000 militzia force, armed and fed with its best equipment, while our soldiers were deprived of the potentially available means to save the country from the enemy, means that were provided partly thanks to prived initiatives weeks after 4 days war? And this according the own assessment of SS yesterday....
Considering the size of our armed forces, in a country in war on two fronts, the size of the militzia says it all....

Actually our government keeps police a half size of armed forces hmmmmm?
So technically it needs to protect from it's own people more than azeris?
Since azeris are armed to teeth, why be so affraid of your own unarmed population?
What is strange, in Sari Tagh and in other streets private armies of oligarkhs joined the police in mersilessly beating and wounding the protesters.
Dictatorship?
So what do you call it when Nemets Rubo's and Lfic Samo's (2 ofworst ologarkhs) men join the police and with police supplied explosives burn house and take out eyes.
Joint cooperation of real and sane patriots ha?
When starting acouple of nights before clashes police began pulling out (arresting ) all the protest leaders who had nothing to do with Sasna Tsrer but were known protest (like electric Yerevan) or other party party leaders like Jarangutyun or HAK, It was abvious that government was trying to prevent the protesters from acting organised and make them as uncontrollable crowd.
Then the warning was given to protesters that any act of violence sgainst the police would be dealth very harshly.
Then some unknowns ( who were later seen in sari tagh attacking people and were recognised as nemetses and lfiks men) threw bottles and bloodied some police.
And so "mad and dangerous crowd" was brought to order (squashed).
Government wanted to keep public disorganised so much that it arrested any figure (even tourists like Arsine Khanjian) that could speak or otherwise have a slightest rffect on what was going on.
Everybody should know that whatever happens (even this elections) oligarkhs with their government can run circles around people.

[Hakob]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Today's news was spreading story that after Samvel Babayan's arrest now Seyran Ohanian is under investigation of being an accomplice of Babayan and maybe arrested himself.
Interesting...
Persons who managed armies and won wars, led departments of a country and have high educations, suddenly decide to engage in petty arms smuggling or other crimes, therefore taking themselfs out just before "elections that government does everything to make just and honest", where they may have had Chances of upsetting the ruling coalition.
And the way they do that smuggling is worse than the way a parrot smuggler from Mexican Tijuana would do?
It's like Dwight Eisenhower getting caught being an associate of transporting bag of marijuana in truck before elections in 1953.
Man, Serj and his government are amazing magicians.
Guys am I going mad?
Do I have to keep myself from attacking police stations?

[HyeSocialist]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Comparing the USA with Armenia is simply daft.

You sound like Nero with his harp watching Rome burn and say you get fire everywhere.

Nothing there to debate I am afraid.

.

He is one of those randomly anti-western, anti-democratic types who feed off of Russian "whataboutisms." The guy's opinion is unbelievably outdated.

In Los Angeles, the head sheriff is going to prison for corruption, while Armenian law enforcement looks like a bunch of thugs. But America and Armenia are the same in these people's heads. And then when you tell them that there are country's more advanced than the USA, that those should be models, they keep harping about the United States. They live in a world of alternative facts. They vote Trump.