Liberation of Western Armenia

[sirius1234]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Karo

That's not true that's Turkish propoganda

Are Norway, the USA, and Greece, parts of the republic of Turkey, huh? Reread the texts I posted about Anatolian Turks being descendents of the Ancient Anatolians who lived there for millenia. The Central Asian element is minor in their DNA, at least not more than the allien genes (Turkish, Russian, Arab, etc) present among Armenians.

the hittite and all those others wh lived in Anatolia died thousands of a years ago

How did they die, do you have a link? You wish.

When the mongol turks Invidaded they masacered the people living there most of them were greeks and romans(east-roman empire) by then but they were all massicared when the cities wre caputered

Really? Do you have a credible source for this? No real historian would ever agree with such lies, why do you rewrite history? LMAO

And by the way, what were the Roman and Greek invaders doing in Anatolia? Are they those who killed the Hittite and their indigenous Anatolian counterparts? LOL

Listen, Greeks have invaded Lydian Anatolia, and Roman invaders originated from the Italian péninsula, so it is ok for them to steal and massacre Anatolians, and not for the Turks to massacre those invaders? You owned yourself.

P.S: The Eastern Roman Empire, aka Byzantin Empire, was ruled by the Greeks as well, not by Italian Romans.

that's not true ether the city of yerevan is build on a old uratian fortres named erebuni

Reread what I wrote, this political entity was a kingdom, not the Republic of Armenia, and although it included Modern Armenia, most of its lands were located in the Islamic Kurdish homeland, in Turkey and Iran. Here is a clear map from an Armenian website:

that's not the reason we don't want you there it is bacause your mongolian invadors

Armenians are European speaking people, go back to Europe, Asia Minor is for Asians. And don't ever think you can tell Turks what to do, they control the lands, you don't...

and need to get the hell out of our lands and western Armenia belongs to Armenia, look at te cities of Van, Ani, Kars kurds and turks never have could builded those citeis and many others. Turks have never builded a city in all of their history they have conquered and destroyed but never build. And we will take back our lands one way or on other Azat Hayasdan, mer hoger@ mijanjn mernen michev ashxari verch@

Still your usual propaganda, how wonderful to read so much lies.

Noone's going to get out of those Islamic lands, and whether you like it or not, "Western Armenia" will remain Kurdish, you're too poor and too weak to be able to capture any sq km of land...

So many people are jealous because their country is poor and under-developped, because they have no real armed forces and were under foreign dominations for millenia with almost no interruptions. It must suck to be so frustrated and envious, suffering from a massive inferiority complex.


Deal with this map:

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

the Turks are to their Hittite, Phrygian, and Lidyan ancestors

That's not true that's Turkish propoganda the hittite and all those others wh lived in Anatolia died thousands of a years ago, When the mongol turks Invidaded they masacered the people living there most of them were greeks and romans(east-roman empire) by then but they were all massicared when the cities wre caputered

they was not today Republic of Armenia (their lands were mostly in today Kurdistan),

that's not true ether the city of yerevan is build on a old uratian fortres named erebuni

denying the Turks their right to live in Asia Minor on the pretext their tongue is Altaic, not Anatolian

that's not the reason we don't want you there it is bacause your mongolian invadors and need to get the hell out of our lands and western Armenia belongs to Armenia, look at te cities of Van, Ani, Kars kurds and turks never have could builded those citeis and many others. Turks have never builded a city in all of their history they have conquered and destroyed but never build. And we will take back our lands one way or on other Azat Hayasdan, mer hoger@ mijanjn mernen michev ashxari verch@

Karo

[sirius1234]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Armenian

You did not understand the discussion apparently, noone said the people of Urartu were not the forfathers of today Armenians, the point was Armenians are not more related to them than the Turks are to their Hittite, Phrygian, and Lidyan ancestors. They had a different language (which was not European as Armenian language is), they had a different writing system (they did not use alphabet, but Iraqi cuneiform scripts), they was not today Republic of Armenia (their lands were mostly in today Kurdistan), and the name of their country was of not of Armenian origin, but of Arabic-Semitic root.

Armenians are not Europeans indeed, they are Asians, but it isn't the point, today they speak an European language, while "Western Armenia" and Armenia are Asia. Some people here have stated that language was a criteria of indigenousness, denying the Turks their right to live in Asia Minor on the pretext their tongue is Altaic, not Anatolian. Well the same can be told for Armenians, and Turks speak an Asian language unlike them, they speak a language of the continent they inhabit.

Finally, it was proven "Western Armenia" was a part of the Semitic-Iraqi empires long before the concept of Armenia ever existed. This area does not belong to Armenians in exclusivity, just like the Sea of China doesn't belong to China, "Western Armenia" belongs to all of its indigenous people, and it includes Turks and Kurds.

[sirius1234]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Yegbayr Armenian

Very well said.

It is past time that we cease trying to educate people who are just never going to get it. They are going to give us history, ethnic makeup and tradition that simply are not true.

Let’s get back to Western Armenia and screw the rest of the BS coming from the jerks. We are not interested in Muslim, Turk, xxx or Arab stuff on an Armenian website that's subject is Western Armenia. It's time for them to go to a Turkish site and lie to each other. Another words I am tired of their xxxx

God Bless Hayk and the Hayk

Avak

It seems like many people here are though...

All over this website, and especially on this subject, Muslims and Turks are constantly cited and the debates Armenians engage in, are about them. "Western Armenia" being a part of the Islamic Kurdish homeland, and located in Turkey, you cannot expect anyone to talk about Armenia exclusively.

[melikianAvak]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

This thread has turned into a debate between dumb and dumber.

I have written enough about the Urartian-Armenian connection in the past, I'm not going to waste my time again on it. Nevertheless, the ancient Urartians (Araratians) were Armenians in every sense of the word and Armenians were Urartians in every sense of the word. What's more, Armenians are not European, Armenians are Anatolians and Caucasians in every sense of the word. This matter is not in debate anymore, the Armenian nation is, in essence, a mix of various Indo-European and Caucasian natives of the Armenian Highlands. This aforementioned "mix" is what we Armenians are culturally and genetically. This mix is called Armenian and Armenia. Prior to this mix all the major tribes of the region were proto-Armenians at best. And our Armenian homeland has always been and will someday again consist of Nakhijevan, Javakhq, western Armenia as well as all the territories under Armenian control today.
Thanks to some idiots in our community western derived BS concerning Armenian origins is still being used in discussion as if its still a matter of debate. Thanks to some idiots in our community turks still feel free to come in here and spew their fairy-tales.

Let's get back on topic, Western Armenia.

Yegbayr Armenian

Very well said.

It is past time that we cease trying to educate people who are just never going to get it. They are going to give us history, ethnic makeup and tradition that simply are not true.

Let’s get back to Western Armenia and screw the rest of the BS coming from the jerks. We are not interested in Muslim, Turk, xxx or Arab stuff on an Armenian website that's subject is Western Armenia. It's time for them to go to a Turkish site and lie to each other. Another words I am tired of their xxxx

God Bless Hayk and the Hayk

Avak

[Armenian]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

This thread has turned into a debate between dumb and dumber.

I have written enough about the Urartian-Armenian connection in the past, I'm not going to waste my time again on it. Nevertheless, the ancient Urartians (Araratians) were Armenians in every sense of the word and Armenians were Urartians in every sense of the word. What's more, Armenians are not European, Armenians are Anatolians and Caucasians in every sense of the word. This matter is not in debate anymore, the Armenian nation is, in essence, a mix of various Indo-European and Caucasian natives of the Armenian Highlands. This aforementioned "mix" is what we Armenians are culturally and genetically. This mix is called Armenian and Armenia. Prior to this mix all the major tribes of the region were proto-Armenians at best. And our Armenian homeland has always been and will someday again consist of Nakhijevan, Javakhq, western Armenia as well as all the territories under Armenian control today.

Thanks to some idiots in our community western derived BS concerning Armenian origins is still being used in discussion as if its still a matter of debate. Thanks to some idiots in our community turks still feel free to come in here and spew their fairy-tales.

Let's get back on topic, Western Armenia.

[sirius1234]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Karo

and about the claime that Armenians livedthere from 6CBC is also wrong you are frogeting about the Uratu kingdom and the other tribes that lived there.

I didn't claim this, I only repeated what ArmSurvival stated. By the way, Urartu was not Modern Armenia, it was located on the indigenous lands of Kurdish people, and Urartaean language was not related to Armenian, nor to Indo-European languages... the name of Urartu itself is of Arabic-Semitic (Assyrian-Akkadian) root, not Armenian. Also, modern Armenian alphabet has nothing to do with Urartean writing system, which was derivated from Sumerian-Assyrian cuneiform scripts, Sumerians are Southern Iraqi people, who created the first Human civilisation in the Northern part of the Arabian peninsula.

Moreover, Arabic-Semitic tribes controlled the lands of Urartu for centuries before this Kingdom ever existed.

And the turks are not decendets of the hittites but are a ural-mongolic tribe

Yes, and Uralic speaking people of Finland are Mongoloid people too, although they are mostly blue-green eyed and light haired, which is a typical European and Mediterranean trait, not Asian???

Armenians are European speaking people,while Anatolia and Modern Armenia are located on the continent of Asia, not Europe, just like the Central Asian tribes you are reffering to, so who are the invaders?

Sirius1234 do you really think that Turkey could occupaie Armenia
Even the US said would have trouble to win a war in Armenia so do you really think that the Turkish Army is stronger than the US army.

Besides the US Army needs to unite to 47 foreign countries to defeat a single and tiny Arab nation, the USA is already 301 millions, yet it seeks for the help of dozens of foreign contingents to war with an Arab state of less than 30 millions of people

[sirius1234]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Armsurvival

Enjoy your trip, see you.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

I don't even think we're on the same page anymore.

Anyways I'm going to be away for a few weeks (I will be making a stop in Armenia and Karabakh).... so no time to respond now.

[sirius1234]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Armsurvival

Semite is a term which includes different groups, from Arabs to Assyrians to xxxs

You're mistaken in part, Semites were the Ancient Arabs and their Northern counterparts, who were themselves of Arabian origin and migrated to Mesopotamia, Palestine and the Oriental offshore of Mediterranea, as early as 3500 B.C, 5500 years ago. Most Semites then adopted the Aramaic language, and then the Modern Arabic civilisation following the Muslim expulsion of the European Byzantine occupiers and their Sassanid Iranian rivals. Modern Arabs are the descendents of those people, who are linked to them in term of race, Semitic language-culture-religion, and in term of Middle-Eastern civilisation.

and is also a language group. You cannot compare a designation like this to Armenians, who are one group within the Indo-European family.

Armenian itself is a language family as well, not only a single language... you claim Armenians descend of people who spoke different languages and dialects in the past as the language of Modern Armenia, so the same can told for modern Arabic, which is derivated from the Aramaic language, the tongue spoken by Semites prior to the Islamic period (unlike Ancient primitive Arabic languages, aka Southern Arabic languages, who were not derivated from Aramaic).

You can compare Semites to Indo-Europeans, but it is wrong to compare a vast group such as Semites to a single people such as Armenians. By your logic, Armenians can claim India since both peoples are Indo-European. This logic is very inaccurate.

This is not my logic, Indians are not the ancestors of Armenians, are they? You didn't get my point, about the modern Arabic speakers being the descendents of Ancient Semites.



Arabs:

People living in North Africa and the Middle East, from western Morocco to Oman, and from Turkey in the north to Yemen and Sudan in the south.

The Arabic heartland is Hijaz (now western Saudi Arabia) and Yemen. Around the year 610 CE, the birth year of Islam, this was a trade area along caravan routes, where the town of Mecca was one of the central towns. People came to Hijaz from Africa, from Mesopotamia, from Phoenicia, and from Egypt. The little evidence we have suggests that the Arabs in this era were not a pure race because intermarriage and the freedom of Arab women to choose their own bed mates created a diverse society.

Arab identity would spread with with the advances of Islam. Although Arabs originating from the Arab heartland at some time emigrated into all the new territories which today have a population defined as "Arabs," these territories were already peopled by a population far larger than the immigrants. For a number of reasons, however, Arab lifestyles, Arab identity and Arabic language would come to replace the original lifestyles, identities and languages.

Arabs would come to have some influence to the race, but in most cases the Arab peoples living in lands originally non-Arab, represent about the same racial composition as before the Arabization.

Hence the former Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Phoenicians, Canaanites, (most of the) Berbers etc. are still there, but they have simply changed their identities.






Mesopotamia is Iraq, and Mesopotamians are the Iraqis, those who controlled
Armenia for centuries before Armenia ever existed...

I am not denying that "Hittite genes" are present in Turkey today

You just did though, you changed your opinion in a quick way...

but this does not mean they are the same people.

Yes it does, they're the same racially and they're culturally Middle-Easterners like their ancestors.

Turkish and Hittite culture are markedly different and have no continuous connection to one another, considering the Hittites, as a civilization, died out centuries before Turks appeared there.

Well, Ancient Armenians had a different alphabet, a different religion, a different dialect, a different primitive culture, their geographical location was much different and they didn't live in Modern Republic of Armenia, they were under monarchies. You can't have it both ways... Armenia has never been an independent state for most of its history, it always belonged to other political entities, such as Iraq, Iran, Russia, USSR, and Turkey.

How? I just named all the instances where an Armenian entity existed throughout history, even while foreign empires occupied it, and you simply disregard it.

The answer is above, those monarchies were not the Modern Republic of Armenia.

Note that culture and language are not criterias of indigenousness, otherwise all Americans and Indians would be of Germanic descent, which seems very strange for people of India and for tens of millions of Germanic speakers from the USA, who are racially African, not Scandinavian.

So, do you mean Turks have to leave simply because they changed their languages, just like the whole planet's nations did? Do the Latin Speaking French have to leave their country simply because they were Latinised and Romanised by their conquerants, their ancestors being Celtic speakers of Gaulish descent, not French (from the Germanic Frankish invaders, -Franks-) ?

Children of immigrating people who are of different nationalities and speak different languages, still can inherit from their parents and even grandparents wealth, plain and simple. Conclusion, the same blood runs through their veins, and they own their forfathers lands.

I find it very immature and senseless that so many people try to deny Turks their indigenousness, those people do exactly what they complain about, it is childish.

Armenia gave limited petrol and electrical support to Karabakh, but this does not mean that ROA has troops stationed there. Your source even claims that it was a secessionist force, meaning that it was from within Azerbaijan, not from Armenia. Look at your own sources more carefully.

Do not try to confuse, the source clearly states Armenia occupies 16% of the country, not Armenian forces...

"Armenia supports ethnic Armenian secessionists in Nagorno-Karabakh and since the early 1990s, has militarily occupied 16% of Azerbaijan."

If it reffered to the secessionists the term would be "have".

And for your information, Hebrew is a semetic language, and Israel is located in today's middle east.

Hebrew was not spoken by israelis before 1948 and the etablishment of their colony in Palestine, israelis used to be European and African speaking people. The USA is located in Americas, most of its inhabitants are allien to the continent though, they came from Europe and stole it from the Indians, so what's your point?

israel still doesn't recognise the Armenian genocide by the way.

White ancestry? LMAO.... where are you pulling these terms out of? There is no such term as "white ancestry" outside Neo-Nazi circles.

What was the "LMAO" for? White is a term for people who trace their ancestry to Europe, but since you're an Asian from Armenia, it isn't surprising you ignore this common knowledge.

The point was israel was founded by Ashkenazi J-ews (85% of the World's J-ewish population), who are mostly of European stock, not Middle-Easterners. They are recent illegal J-ewish immigrants came from Europe in the 20'th century and after Holocaust, then they mass imported millions of J-ews from Europe, America, Africa and Asia, to repopulate the country they stole and emptied of its original Palestinian population after the ethnic cleansing of 1948.




History and Ethnic groups of israel according to the US Department of State:

"The creation of the State of Israel in 1948 was preceded by more than 50 years of efforts to establish a sovereign nation as a homeland for J-ews. These efforts were initiated by Theodore Herzl, founder of the Zionist movement, and were given added impetus by the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which asserted the British Government's support for the creation of a J-ewish homeland in Palestine."

"With a population drawn from more than 100 countries on 5 continents, Israeli society is rich in cultural diversity and artistic creativity."

"Since 1989, nearly a million immigrants from the former Soviet Union have arrived in Israel, making this the largest wave of immigration since independence. In addition, almost 50,000 members of the Ethiopian J-ewish community have immigrated to Israel, 14,000 of them during the dramatic May 1991 Operation Solomon airlift. 35.3% of Israelis were born outside of Israel.

"The three broad J-ewish groupings are the Ashkenazim, or J-ews who trace their ancestry to western, central, and eastern Europe; the Sephardim, who trace their origin to Spain, Portugal, southern Europe, and North Africa; and Eastern or Oriental J-ews, who descend from ancient communities in Islamic lands."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3581.htm#people

Seeing as you use terms like "white race", and comparing language groups to single peoples, there is no point in having a discussion with you. I have nothing against you, but I'm not going to waste my time with this.

I never used the term of "White race", it seems like you didn't read well, so no wonder why you didn't understand the meaning of my sentences...

Where are you from? As I just said, the term White is commonly used in Europe and in the West to reffer to a person of European ancestry, there's nothing taboo about it, and as for the single peoples, modern Arabs are descendents of all Ancient Semites. Since you're not Arab, you need to study the Arab World history before to state such false statements.

Also, I really have nothing against Armenia, but some people here are Islamophobic and show hatred towards Arabs, Kurds, and Turks. One of them even calls to ethnic cleanse the Indigenous Kurds of their homeland, doing the same as Armenians had to live at the time of Ottomans, it is simply hypocrisy and hatred.