Liberation of Western Armenia

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

There was combat in the skies over NK, mainly helicopters and mainly Su-25s from newly formed Armenian and Azeri air forces, as well as Russian air lifts and resupplies to NK. Azeris had anything but total air supremacy. Armenian anti-air defences were far superior to Azeri air power and defences.

Dogfights do not take place between helicopters and jets.

Armenia does not have a single Mig-29. Russian Air Force stationed in Armenia are exactly that, Russian. The 10 "fighter jets" purchased were Su-25s.

KNOWN OPERATORS:

Algeria, Al Quwwat al Jawwawiya al Jaza'eriya (Algerian Air Force)
Angola, Força Aérea Popular de Angola (Angolan People's Air Force)
Armenia (Armenian Air Force)
Belarus, Voyenno Vozdushnyye Sily (Belarus Air Force)
Bulgaria, Bulgarski Voenno Vozdushni Sili (Bulgarian Air Defense Force Military Aviation)
Croatia, Hrvatske Zracne Snage (Croatian Air Force)

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/mig29/

Beware the mighty Armenian howitzers and their AA capability!

a dumb comment. Armenian howittzers have proven themselves as being effiecient instruments. What is so funny?

Or it could be that air forces are for air superiority and winning wars. Who knows!

well, lets take the current conflict in lebanon into account. Obviously, the Israelis hardly were "capable of winning the war" with their air superiority. Destroying buildings, roads and bridges and killing civilians is hardly winning a war.

Oh so now we can fight a two-front war, against one enemy which is a regional power, and still come out on top! Wow! We might as well start expanding territory right now then, in all directions.

Our "border" with Turkey has always been a front. I didn't say Armenia has the resources to launch an invasion of turkey, but it in terms of defense, and not offense, Armenian forces are capable of getting the job done. Being able to defend yourself is one thing, and lauching an offense is another.

And, needless to say, we want what belongs to us, nothing more.

[D3ADSY]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

OMG! ok, now you're just being ridiculous and making up things. Armenians did NOT wage an air war over NK. Armenians fought strictly a ground warfare. Total air supremacy rested in Azeri hands.

There was combat in the skies over NK, mainly helicopters and mainly Su-25s from newly formed Armenian and Azeri air forces, as well as Russian air lifts and resupplies to NK. Azeris had anything but total air supremacy. Armenian anti-air defences were far superior to Azeri air power and defences.

Forgetting the MiG 29's aren't we?

This year alone 10 fighter jets were purchased from Slovakia.

Armenia does not have a single Mig-29. Russian Air Force stationed in Armenia are exactly that, Russian. The 10 "fighter jets" purchased were Su-25s.

But everyone knows that Armenians are ground and mountain fighters, so we don't really care for an air force. Our howittzers will shoot down all tresspassing jets.

Beware the mighty Armenian howitzers and their AA capability!

Air force is for cowards who drop bombs.

Or it could be that air forces are for air superiority and winning wars. Who knows!

The Armenian military has been judged by various military analysts as being a capable and competent force efficient enough to repbel an attack from Azerbaijan, Turkey, or both at the same time.

Oh so now we can fight a two-front war, against one enemy which is a regional power, and still come out on top! Wow! We might as well start expanding territory right now then, in all directions.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

For all your talk if Azeri forces crossed into NKR lines tomorrow you'd still be posting, carrying on your patriotic fight on the forums of the internet, because you're too busy to do anything else, because you have a business or some other excuse to take care of that is stopping you from boarding that plane bound for Armenia.

I agree with the general point of this message: more armenians need to put their money where their mouth is. And if you can't help one way, you'd damn well better help another way.

If you aren't going to put your life on the line and fight, you should go visit Armenian and help the economy by spending dollars there, and not shedding blood on the battlefields.

However, Specifically "Armenian" is a very patriotic person who would run to the front lines if need be.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

You should maintain the strongest army, but don't isolate yourself from those directly around you while dancing to the tune of a "great power" who you have no direct link to, from who for a number of reasons you are becoming more and more isolated. One day people wake up and they realise they are alone. If only we had some of the balls Georgia seems to have. I'd also say that ethnically we have much in common with the people we live amongst in the caucasus, we're all "cherniy kavkazskii" aren't we?

What do you suggest we do? Armenia has and continues to insist on the establishment of direct relations with Turkey and open borders. The response of Turkey?- FORGET THE GENOCIDE, EVACUATE LANDS YOU LIBERATED AT THE COST OF BLOOD.

the simple fact of the matter is that armenia will not fuction as a viable state without karabakh and without it may loose its very statehood.
And to forget the genocide, that would mean to be at risk of another genocide.

armenia DIDN"T blockade turkey.

our only problem in the region is Turkic, we have excellent relations with the rest.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Ah yes, as always your kind relies on the "great powers".
You will never learn.
Do yo have dreams of a neo-Byzantium? Ask a Greek or Serb or Russian what they think of Armenians. You'll get a reply that they don't think at all, at best.

Genious, look at history. How many times has the Russian army entered Turkey? Syrians have aspirations of a greater syria which includes land in modern turkey. Greeks have their demands. Then there's the internal issue of Kurds within Turkey. Kurds in North Iraq may even get there own state. If you can't see it, that this isn't strictly an armenian-turkish issue, then you must have a small mind. Even if the Armenians give up their demands, THE GREEKS WILL NEVER GIVE UP THEIRS, THE SYRIANS WILL NEVER GIVE UP THEIRS, THE KURDS WILL NEVER GIVE UP THEIRS.

As far as the Byzanties go, I think they got their response and are still reeping the consqences after they disbanded the Armenians as a result of which the conquering Turks brought down the entire byzantine empire.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

15 Su-25
1 Mig-25
12 operational Mi-24s (out of around 30)

Yeah, I'd say my figurative way of speaking was close enough.

Forgetting the MiG 29's aren't we?

This year alone 10 fighter jets were purchased from Slovakia.

And by no means am I going to claim that Armenia has the most advanced or modern air force. However, it is a competent force and is capable of getting the job done.

But everyone knows that Armenians are ground and mountain fighters, so we don't really care for an air force. Our howittzers will shoot down all tresspassing jets.

Air force is for cowards who drop bombs.

The Armenian military has been judged by various military analysts as being a capable and competent force efficient enough to repbel an attack from Azerbaijan, Turkey, or both at the same time.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Yeah, who knows... Maybe we will see Nato fight Nato!

Ya, seriously. I mean could you ever imagine 2 lovebirds like the NATO Greeks and Turks ever going at it?

That is as unheard of as UN country fighting a UN country.

I mean all the regular violations of air space and soverign waters in the agean by both parties are only a manifestation of love for one another, such love is also expressed by dividing Greek Cyprus.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

If they didn't have an air force how the hell did they fight an air war over NK?
I don't recall saying anything about it not being a glorious victory.

OMG! ok, now you're just being ridiculous and making up things. Armenians did NOT wage an air war over NK. Armenians fought strictly a ground warfare. Total air supremacy rested in Azeri hands.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Yes, and the billion dollar shipments of military aid had no impact. And please do not argue this never happened, it is the very thing you would spurt out when trying to argue Armenians and Russians are best mates.

The billion dollar shipments of arms to Armenia had no impact on the outcome of the war because they were transferred to armenia AFTER the ceasefire agreement was signed.

These weapons were NOT used against Azerbaijanis, but NATO arms supplied to Azerbaijan DURING the war WERE used against Armenians.

You are making a complete fool out of yourself. So why don't you go read some books on the subject and then come back to debate what happened and what didn't happen.

[D3ADSY]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Such factors as superiority in numbers and arms do not automatically translate into military success and I think you've got much research to do before you present yourself as being some military analyst.

In terms of what we are talking about here the numbers on each side and their equipment play a vital role.

The fight for the liberation of Mountainous Artsakh was hardly "between two more or less evenly matched sides." The Artsakhsis hardly had the numberical advantage over the Azeris, and for the most part they fought with what they captured from the enemy.

Yes, and the billion dollar shipments of military aid had no impact. And please do not argue this never happened, it is the very thing you would spurt out when trying to argue Armenians and Russians are best mates.

The Armenians did NOT have planes or an air force, the Azeris did. Moreover, the Azerbaijanis had hired thousands of Mujahadeen, Chechen, Russian and Ukranian merceneries.... while the Armenians had barely enough money for bread. The situation was A LOT more despair in Armenia than Azerbaijan. Moreover, the Azeris were advized by NATO Turkish Generals on military tactics and supplied NATO arms to Azerbaijan for use against Armenians.

There, the Armenians were overwhelming outnumbered, outgunned and only a braindead baffoon would see this brilliant, glourious victory as an "even match".

If they didn't have an air force how the hell did they fight an air war over NK?
I don't recall saying anything about it not being a glorious victory.

At the present time noone in Armenia is preparing for an invasion of Turkey. We are speaking of our long-term, strategic goals. Geopolitics change all the time. Who knows, one day the Americans may just need to use our territory to attack turkey. It wasn't too long ago when the US was "chums" with Iran.

Yeah, who knows... Maybe we will see Nato fight Nato!

what type of a mutated freak are you? how many fingers have you got?

15 Su-25
1 Mig-25
12 operational Mi-24s (out of around 30)

Yeah, I'd say my figurative way of speaking was close enough.

Moreover, you are assuming that the only way to liberation of our lands is only between a war strictly b/w armenia and turkey. forgetting geopolitics? forgetting sponsorship of great powers?.

Ah yes, as always your kind relies on the "great powers".
You will never learn.
Do yo have dreams of a neo-Byzantium? Ask a Greek or Serb or Russian what they think of Armenians. You'll get a reply that they don't think at all, at best.

precisely, and that is why we have and must maintain the strongest army in the caucasus region. As for iran, they are the closest ethnic relatives of Armenians and the best friend and neighbor we have.

You should maintain the strongest army, but don't isolate yourself from those directly around you while dancing to the tune of a "great power" who you have no direct link to, from who for a number of reasons you are becoming more and more isolated. One day people wake up and they realise they are alone. If only we had some of the balls Georgia seems to have. I'd also say that ethnically we have much in common with the people we live amongst in the caucasus, we're all "cherniy kavkazskii" aren't we?

Though if those who have these suicidal dreams would just avail themselves of the suicide route to a happier live, then it would be better for the sane amongst us.

Don't you get it man? We are not sane. It is they who believe Armenia will reconquer it's historical lands and form a Greater Armenia, who are sane. Somehow they believe they have everything behind them, to back these delusional rants, even history which to most realistic people actually leans more towards proving how absurd this all is!

Thank you enker Artsakh.

I had stopped reading that annoying person's comments. Most probably he is a "Polsahai" who has been watching a lot of Rambo films and reading GI Joe magazines. So now he wants to show us how much of a military expert he has become.

Please ignore him from now on, when you reply to him its like hitting a wasps nest.

You're all talk. Empty, dangerous drivel. And when someone talks back, you resort to ad hominems. You couldn't reply when I countered your utterly stupid claims of Iran destroying US Fleets in the Persian Gulf with Sunburn missiles and you can't reply now. Instead you'll just keep talking from your pulpit and exchanging :cheers: emoticons with those that agree and ignoring anyone who opposes you, much like the politician who will give his speech and then not have time for questions.
For all your talk if Azeri forces crossed into NKR lines tomorrow you'd still be posting, carrying on your patriotic fight on the forums of the internet, because you're too busy to do anything else, because you have a business or some other excuse to take care of that is stopping you from boarding that plane bound for Armenia.