Liberation of Western Armenia

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Our military analyst also seems to forget that in the spring of 1991, the leaders of the Azerbaijani regime, ONLY and ONLY with the assistance of the Soviet Army, was able to organize the depopulation of the Armenian regions of Northern Artsakh and the deportation of the Armenian population of Nagorny Karabakh and the surrounding regions.

Our friend is also forgetting the fact that despite our small numbers, we only lost 6 to 7 thousand soldiers, while Azerbaijanis lost 24-29 thousand soldiers despite their overwhelming superiority in numbers, arms, ground troops, and air and sea forces (non existant in Armenia at the time).

The majority of political and military analysts (Non-Armenian) agree and have written in their accounts that this was a major upset victory against all odds.

But your right, such simpletons who come forth with such absurd assertions are not worthy of a response.

[Armenian]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Thank you enker Artsakh.

I had stopped reading that annoying person's comments. Most probably he is a "Polsahai" who has been watching a lot of Rambo films and reading GI Joe magazines. So now he wants to show us how much of a military expert he has become.

Please ignore him from now on, when you reply to him its like hitting a wasps nest.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Being nationalistic and patriotic and waving the Armenian tricolour is great and all

Moreover, it is also an essential ingredient in the preservation of our national and cultural values in the face of a loosing war against assimilation.

Armenian Armed Forces do not come close to matching, let alone surpassing, Turkish Armed Forces on the ground, in the air or at sea (non-existant).

Such factors as superiority in numbers and arms do not automatically translate into military success and I think you've got much research to do before you present yourself as being some military analyst.

The fight over Nagorno-Karabakh in comparison was between two more or less evenly matched sides who used the same equipment.

The fight for the liberation of Mountainous Artsakh was hardly "between two more or less evenly matched sides." The Artsakhsis hardly had the numberical advantage over the Azeris, and for the most part they fought with what they captured from the enemy.

The Armenians did NOT have planes or an air force, the Azeris did. Moreover, the Azerbaijanis had hired thousands of Mujahadeen, Chechen, Russian and Ukranian merceneries.... while the Armenians had barely enough money for bread. The situation was A LOT more despair in Armenia than Azerbaijan. Moreover, the Azeris were advized by NATO Turkish Generals on military tactics and supplied NATO arms to Azerbaijan for use against Armenians.

There, the Armenians were overwhelming outnumbered, outgunned and only a braindead baffoon would see this brilliant, glourious victory as an "even match".

Ofcourse it does not all come down to military might, but in this case I don't see any other alternative and I think when you speak of "liberation" you do not mean by round table talks and diplomatic handshaking. I really don't want to drag this out, the Turkish Air Force is one of the oldest in the world, with nealy 100 years of history behind it, and close to 300 F-16s alone.

At the present time noone in Armenia is preparing for an invasion of Turkey. We are speaking of our long-term, strategic goals. Geopolitics change all the time. Who knows, one day the Americans may just need to use our territory to attack turkey. It wasn't too long ago when the US was "chums" with Iran.

You can count what the Armenian air force has on one hand.

what type of a mutated freak are you? how many fingers have you got?

How can you launch an offensive against someone who has complete air superiority, and vastly superior numbers on the ground, on his own ground.
Instead of talking about some false hope that somewhere down the track, somehow, Armenia's military will transform into something that can match that of Turkey's perhaps there should be more realistic approaches to the issue.

During the first republic, in the immediate aftermath of the genocide, the republic, drained of all resources, was able to push into turkey and liberate kars and ardahan and nakhijevan and expand the boundries of the first armenian republic that was drawn up by the treaty of batum that made armenia 4500 sq miles. if we could do that then, we can do it again. If our people could throw out the all might red army from our soil under Garegin Njdeh and establish an independent lerna hayastan--we can do it again. Armenians have a glorious record as brilliant fighters and fierce warriors.Turks, on the other hand, have a record for annihilating their own civilian, unarmed population. Back then it was the Armenian, greek, and assyrian citizens of the ottomoan empire. Today, it is the kurdish citizens of Turkey.



Moreover, you are assuming that the only way to liberation of our lands is only between a war strictly b/w armenia and turkey. forgetting geopolitics? forgetting sponsorship of great powers?

Armenia is surrounded by hostile and semi-hostile nations, we have no direct link with Russia and Iran is hardly a true ally the last thing we need are suicidal dreams.

precisely, and that is why we have and must maintain the strongest army in the caucasus region. As for iran, they are the closest ethnic relatives of Armenians and the best friend and neighbor we have.

[Armenian]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Thank God we still have men like the Armenian, I hope he is having many sons.

Yeghbayr Armenian

Thank you for the posts about western Armenia, and what we can become.
I and many other Hay men and women support your words. I thought they were very positive and think that any true Hay Nationalist would agree.

I have lived for many years and have come to the conclusion that a strong and larger Armenia and a much larger population in Hayastan is the best chance of Armenians surviving. I think a one world government is a bad idea.

I am glad that some of the people who feel so differently are not my children.
You have my support. If we Hay's don't stand together as one we may perish.


God Bless

Avak Melikian

Noren shnorhakalutyun enker. Its good to hear from again.

[ARTAK]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Ari, check out this link there is a message for you, mate.

http://forum.armenianclub.com/showthread.php?t=6702&page=3

[ARTAK]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Miayn Zenqov Ka Hayin Prkutiun!!!

[D3ADSY]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Being nationalistic and patriotic and waving the Armenian tricolour is great and all, but where is the realistic outlook, the the kind of concerned thought that comes with genuinely caring for something, whether people or a country?
I will just put things bluntly, since arguments seem to flare easily and get nowhere fast on the interwebs.
Armenian Armed Forces do not come close to matching, let alone surpassing, Turkish Armed Forces on the ground, in the air or at sea (non-existant). The fight over Nagorno-Karabakh in comparison was between two more or less evenly matched sides who used the same equipment.
Ofcourse it does not all come down to military might, but in this case I don't see any other alternative and I think when you speak of "liberation" you do not mean by round table talks and diplomatic handshaking. I really don't want to drag this out, the Turkish Air Force is one of the oldest in the world, with nealy 100 years of history behind it, and close to 300 F-16s alone. You can count what the Armenian air force has on one hand. How can you launch an offensive against someone who has complete air superiority, and vastly superior numbers on the ground, on his own ground.
Instead of talking about some false hope that somewhere down the track, somehow, Armenia's military will transform into something that can match that of Turkey's perhaps there should be more realistic approaches to the issue.
The very fact that you state such a thing as "may or may not happen within our lifetime", talk of nuclear bombs and ill informed statements like "Turkish military hardware is not modern, its about 20-30 years old" underline how delusional and dangerous this whole thing is. But ofcourse, I and others like me, are the problem, the ones who are holding back Armenia! Yet it is your delusions of grandeur that will cause a repeat of history, not mine. Speaking of history, isn't it about time we learned from it?
Armenia is surrounded by hostile and semi-hostile nations, we have no direct link with Russia and Iran is hardly a true ally the last thing we need are suicidal dreams.

[melikianAvak]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Thank God we still have men like the Armenian, I hope he is having many sons.

Yeghbayr Armenian

Thank you for the posts about western Armenia, and what we can become.
I and many other Hay men and women support your words. I thought they were very positive and think that any true Hay Nationalist would agree.

I have lived for many years and have come to the conclusion that a strong and larger Armenia and a much larger population in Hayastan is the best chance of Armenians surviving. I think a one world government is a bad idea.

I am glad that some of the people who feel so differently are not my children.
You have my support. If we Hay's don't stand together as one we may perish.


God Bless

Avak Melikian

[Anonymouse]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

It gets really hard deleting posts that deviate from the issue and focus on insulting one another especially since some of us have school or work and cannot be in front of this all day. I know discussions can get very personal because ultimately it comes down to our beliefs and alot of the topics are important and personal and everyone wants to make the best of it and I am sure everyone has the best intentions, but there must be more content than insult.

Even if you reply to someone in a vindictive manner or somewhat condescending, but at the same time still try to make your argument and create and keep content to be 70% of your reply, I and other moderators have been very liberal in letting the things flow. Just continuous insults only ruin the value, candor and appeal of the thread. Instead of the argument and the issues taking up the majority of the posts, people become the issues.

UPDATE: The thread has been significantly cleaned up. I don't think I missed anything, unless I'm wrong. However, please post in a cordial fashion. If you disagree fine, make it known, yell to the world you disagree and you think the other side is wrong. However, to go beyond that, and I am not even talking about insults, and make actual threats and intimidation, that is taken seriously and you will be banned for that.

[skhara]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

I vividly remeber the years 1989-1991 when Ramkavars, Polsahais, Amerikahais, etc, were attacking Dashnaktsakans for sending money, volunteers and suppies to our azatamardiks in Artsakh. I recall a filthy Polsahai from New York once telling me - "you people (The ARF) casued the Armenian Genocide in 1915 now you are trying to cause another one."

I was like

And a well educated 20 something Amerikahai was once yelling at me with tears in his eyes that enough Armenians had died throughout history and that we don't need another war. I told him - DUDE, we did not start the war, they are depopulating Armenian villages, they are killing Armenian civilians, we have to fight back!

He said something to the effect of - "killing begets killing."

I was like

I have now come to the wise conclusion that there is no point in discussing anything with these types. We Armenians simply need to learn how to ignore these low-lives in our communities and continue doing what is best for the future of our nation.

When I come across these types of so-called Armenians now -

I'm like

It is interesting then the obvious gap in mentalities. I quite vividly remember when all this was going on in 88 and 89. My own family essentially became refugees, but I remember my father having this discussion of the upcomming war, there was no worry at all that Armenians would win in any one on one battle with Azeris. He was mostly worried about Iranian and Turkish involvement. This I remember to be the attitude my uncles and grandad had as well.