Liberation of Western Armenia

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Yes, and the billion dollar shipments of military aid had no impact. And please do not argue this never happened, it is the very thing you would spurt out when trying to argue Armenians and Russians are best mates.

The billion dollar shipments of arms to Armenia had no impact on the outcome of the war because they were transferred to armenia AFTER the ceasefire agreement was signed.

These weapons were NOT used against Azerbaijanis, but NATO arms supplied to Azerbaijan DURING the war WERE used against Armenians.

You are making a complete fool out of yourself. So why don't you go read some books on the subject and then come back to debate what happened and what didn't happen.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

If they didn't have an air force how the hell did they fight an air war over NK?
I don't recall saying anything about it not being a glorious victory.

OMG! ok, now you're just being ridiculous and making up things. Armenians did NOT wage an air war over NK. Armenians fought strictly a ground warfare. Total air supremacy rested in Azeri hands.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Yeah, who knows... Maybe we will see Nato fight Nato!

Ya, seriously. I mean could you ever imagine 2 lovebirds like the NATO Greeks and Turks ever going at it?

That is as unheard of as UN country fighting a UN country.

I mean all the regular violations of air space and soverign waters in the agean by both parties are only a manifestation of love for one another, such love is also expressed by dividing Greek Cyprus.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

15 Su-25
1 Mig-25
12 operational Mi-24s (out of around 30)

Yeah, I'd say my figurative way of speaking was close enough.

Forgetting the MiG 29's aren't we?

This year alone 10 fighter jets were purchased from Slovakia.

And by no means am I going to claim that Armenia has the most advanced or modern air force. However, it is a competent force and is capable of getting the job done.

But everyone knows that Armenians are ground and mountain fighters, so we don't really care for an air force. Our howittzers will shoot down all tresspassing jets.

Air force is for cowards who drop bombs.

The Armenian military has been judged by various military analysts as being a capable and competent force efficient enough to repbel an attack from Azerbaijan, Turkey, or both at the same time.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Ah yes, as always your kind relies on the "great powers".
You will never learn.
Do yo have dreams of a neo-Byzantium? Ask a Greek or Serb or Russian what they think of Armenians. You'll get a reply that they don't think at all, at best.

Genious, look at history. How many times has the Russian army entered Turkey? Syrians have aspirations of a greater syria which includes land in modern turkey. Greeks have their demands. Then there's the internal issue of Kurds within Turkey. Kurds in North Iraq may even get there own state. If you can't see it, that this isn't strictly an armenian-turkish issue, then you must have a small mind. Even if the Armenians give up their demands, THE GREEKS WILL NEVER GIVE UP THEIRS, THE SYRIANS WILL NEVER GIVE UP THEIRS, THE KURDS WILL NEVER GIVE UP THEIRS.

As far as the Byzanties go, I think they got their response and are still reeping the consqences after they disbanded the Armenians as a result of which the conquering Turks brought down the entire byzantine empire.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

You should maintain the strongest army, but don't isolate yourself from those directly around you while dancing to the tune of a "great power" who you have no direct link to, from who for a number of reasons you are becoming more and more isolated. One day people wake up and they realise they are alone. If only we had some of the balls Georgia seems to have. I'd also say that ethnically we have much in common with the people we live amongst in the caucasus, we're all "cherniy kavkazskii" aren't we?

What do you suggest we do? Armenia has and continues to insist on the establishment of direct relations with Turkey and open borders. The response of Turkey?- FORGET THE GENOCIDE, EVACUATE LANDS YOU LIBERATED AT THE COST OF BLOOD.

the simple fact of the matter is that armenia will not fuction as a viable state without karabakh and without it may loose its very statehood.
And to forget the genocide, that would mean to be at risk of another genocide.

armenia DIDN"T blockade turkey.

our only problem in the region is Turkic, we have excellent relations with the rest.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

For all your talk if Azeri forces crossed into NKR lines tomorrow you'd still be posting, carrying on your patriotic fight on the forums of the internet, because you're too busy to do anything else, because you have a business or some other excuse to take care of that is stopping you from boarding that plane bound for Armenia.

I agree with the general point of this message: more armenians need to put their money where their mouth is. And if you can't help one way, you'd damn well better help another way.

If you aren't going to put your life on the line and fight, you should go visit Armenian and help the economy by spending dollars there, and not shedding blood on the battlefields.

However, Specifically "Armenian" is a very patriotic person who would run to the front lines if need be.

[D3ADSY]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

OMG! ok, now you're just being ridiculous and making up things. Armenians did NOT wage an air war over NK. Armenians fought strictly a ground warfare. Total air supremacy rested in Azeri hands.

There was combat in the skies over NK, mainly helicopters and mainly Su-25s from newly formed Armenian and Azeri air forces, as well as Russian air lifts and resupplies to NK. Azeris had anything but total air supremacy. Armenian anti-air defences were far superior to Azeri air power and defences.

Forgetting the MiG 29's aren't we?

This year alone 10 fighter jets were purchased from Slovakia.

Armenia does not have a single Mig-29. Russian Air Force stationed in Armenia are exactly that, Russian. The 10 "fighter jets" purchased were Su-25s.

But everyone knows that Armenians are ground and mountain fighters, so we don't really care for an air force. Our howittzers will shoot down all tresspassing jets.

Beware the mighty Armenian howitzers and their AA capability!

Air force is for cowards who drop bombs.

Or it could be that air forces are for air superiority and winning wars. Who knows!

The Armenian military has been judged by various military analysts as being a capable and competent force efficient enough to repbel an attack from Azerbaijan, Turkey, or both at the same time.

Oh so now we can fight a two-front war, against one enemy which is a regional power, and still come out on top! Wow! We might as well start expanding territory right now then, in all directions.

[Artsakh]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

There was combat in the skies over NK, mainly helicopters and mainly Su-25s from newly formed Armenian and Azeri air forces, as well as Russian air lifts and resupplies to NK. Azeris had anything but total air supremacy. Armenian anti-air defences were far superior to Azeri air power and defences.

Dogfights do not take place between helicopters and jets.

Armenia does not have a single Mig-29. Russian Air Force stationed in Armenia are exactly that, Russian. The 10 "fighter jets" purchased were Su-25s.

KNOWN OPERATORS:

Algeria, Al Quwwat al Jawwawiya al Jaza'eriya (Algerian Air Force)
Angola, Força Aérea Popular de Angola (Angolan People's Air Force)
Armenia (Armenian Air Force)
Belarus, Voyenno Vozdushnyye Sily (Belarus Air Force)
Bulgaria, Bulgarski Voenno Vozdushni Sili (Bulgarian Air Defense Force Military Aviation)
Croatia, Hrvatske Zracne Snage (Croatian Air Force)

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/mig29/

Beware the mighty Armenian howitzers and their AA capability!

a dumb comment. Armenian howittzers have proven themselves as being effiecient instruments. What is so funny?

Or it could be that air forces are for air superiority and winning wars. Who knows!

well, lets take the current conflict in lebanon into account. Obviously, the Israelis hardly were "capable of winning the war" with their air superiority. Destroying buildings, roads and bridges and killing civilians is hardly winning a war.

Oh so now we can fight a two-front war, against one enemy which is a regional power, and still come out on top! Wow! We might as well start expanding territory right now then, in all directions.

Our "border" with Turkey has always been a front. I didn't say Armenia has the resources to launch an invasion of turkey, but it in terms of defense, and not offense, Armenian forces are capable of getting the job done. Being able to defend yourself is one thing, and lauching an offense is another.

And, needless to say, we want what belongs to us, nothing more.

[D3ADSY]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Dogfights do not take place between helicopters and jets.

I said air war, not dogfights.

KNOWN OPERATORS:

Algeria, Al Quwwat al Jawwawiya al Jaza'eriya (Algerian Air Force)
Angola, Força Aérea Popular de Angola (Angolan People's Air Force)
Armenia (Armenian Air Force)
Belarus, Voyenno Vozdushnyye Sily (Belarus Air Force)
Bulgaria, Bulgarski Voenno Vozdushni Sili (Bulgarian Air Defense Force Military Aviation)
Croatia, Hrvatske Zracne Snage (Croatian Air Force)

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/mig29/

The only Mig-29's in Armenia are at the Russian 102nd base at Gyumri, there is not a single Mig-29 with an Armenian roundel, except in some people's heads.

a dumb comment. Armenian howittzers have proven themselves as being effiecient instruments. What is so funny?

Howitzers are field artillery. They fire up, at high angles, and deliver fire which arcs down at targets kilometres away. It is funny because someone who previously said "I think you've got much research to do before you present yourself as being some military analyst" is talking to me about howtizers shooting aircraft down.
It's downright hilarious.

well, lets take the current conflict in lebanon into account. Obviously, the Israelis hardly were "capable of winning the war" with their air superiority. Destroying buildings, roads and bridges and killing civilians is hardly winning a war.

Winning the war or not, this highlights how devastating air power is.
I never want to see Armenia suffer like Lebanon currently is and that is my whole basis for arguing what I am arguing.

Our "border" with Turkey has always been a front. I didn't say Armenia has the resources to launch an invasion of turkey, but it in terms of defense, and not offense, Armenian forces are capable of getting the job done. Being able to defend yourself is one thing, and lauching an offense is another.

Whilst we have, historically, been great at defending what we have, I don't think anyone really believes Armenia could repel a Turkish and Azeri attack at the same time.
However, the issue here, the original point of this thread, is not about defensive but offensive actions.