Liberation of Western Armenia

[Shaumian]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Greater Armenia revanchists are not being realistic. It's worth remembering that the region where Armenians have lived has been mixed for centuries. In the 1800s, Turks and Kurds were the majority in Yerevan, Armenians were the majority Tiflis, and Russians and Armenians together formed the majority in Baku. Eastern Anatolia had an Armenian minority.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Just to address your points:

Turks and Kurds were never a majority in Yerevan. In the 18th and part of the early 19th century, Muslims were around an 80% majority, but most of them were Persian Shiites. Then came Turks and Kurds. It is worth noting that many of those Kurds were either nomadic or semi-nomadic, and same goes for some of the Turks. Of course all of this was a temporary reality because of the habit of Persian rulers to displace and relocate entire Armenian cities at once (Julfa is a good example).

Eastern Anatolia is a term created by the Turkish political elite during the 20th century in their steadfast crusade to rid any name within their country of having a non-Turkic origin. The correct term, not just politically (until WWI), but geographically, until today, is western Armenia. "East Anatolia" has nothing to do with Anatolia, it is on the same plateau as modern Armenia, which is separate from Anatolia. The term "East Anatolia" is essentially on par with other fake terms/theories created by the Turkish political elite, like the comical Sun Language Theory.

As for the realism... When South Ossetia was granted the status of autonomy, its population was less than 40% Ossetian, and now they are independent. Palestine went from an 8% J ewish population to an 8% non-J ewish population within one generation. Mongolia was ruled by China, but they became independent despite being sqeezed between Russia and China, and they even have a large autonomous region within modern China itself. Whats my point? Never lose hope, unger...

[Shaumian]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

The term "East Anatolia" is essentially on par with other fake terms/theories created by the Turkish political elite, like the comical Sun Language Theory.

What I meant by eastern Anatolia is that part of pre-1914 Anatolia with large numbers of Armenians and Kurds. The point is that Armenians and other peoples of the region have long lived in mixed areas and that aspirations of homogeneous national states are unrealistic and dangerous. The land belongs not to any one particular nation, but to all those who live in it.

[gmd]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

What I meant by eastern Anatolia is that part of pre-1914 Anatolia with large numbers of Armenians and Kurds. The point is that Armenians and other peoples of the region have long lived in mixed areas and that aspirations of homogeneous national states are unrealistic and dangerous. The land belongs not to any one particular nation, but to all those who live in it.

does it hurt when your heart bleeds?

[jgk3]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Only when you have the power to claim something, could you claim it in your name.

If I claimed a forest as mine, then left it to go home, I can call it mine all I want but it will continue to be inhabited by all its wildlife, the actual organisms that live there and call it home. If however, with power, I seek to make it mine for keeps, I can bring in a bulldozer, destroy the wildlife, and bingo... Now you can't question who's influence dominates it.

That's what Turks did to Armenia, that's what Armenia would have to do to Turkey if it wishes to gain those lands. Armenia cannot do this directly, let alone singlehandedly, it can only hope to achieve this in conjunction with the greater political mess that plagues the region, the presence of Kurds seeking autonomy. Then somehow it would have to give Kurds the short end of the stick concerning the regions in question.

Russia, and to a lesser extent, Iran, for the time being, are the keykeepers when it comes to rewarding and punishing nations of the Caucasus, so I'd also expect them to have to give us their blessings should Armenians ever hope (in the foreseeable future) to establish Armenia again on those lands.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

What I meant by eastern Anatolia is that part of pre-1914 Anatolia with large numbers of Armenians and Kurds.

This is true. However, you need to ask yourself how large numbers of Kurds were able to settle themselves in the region in the first place. They did so largely by colluding with the Ottoman authorities to encroach upon Armenian lands, taking people hostage, burning and looting Armenian cities and towns, destroying countless businesses and industries, wiping out entire villages, and enforcing a tax upon the Armenian people, seperate from the already high taxes Armenians had to pay to the Ottomans for being non-Muslim. The Kurdish taxation was basically a ransom-- if Armenians paid, the Kurds would refrain from destoying their homes. If they didn't pay, the Kurds would have to get their hands dirty. This culminated in, but was not restricted to, the Hamidian massacres in which Kurdish chieftains and irregulars turned western Armenia into a butcher shop with the help of the Turkish government. This is how Kurds spread rapidly from northern Iraq and south of Lake Van (their traditional lands) all the way to Van, Ararat, Kars, Erzerum, etc, in a matter of decades. So lets not be so kind to the Kurds by calling western Armenia "East Anatolia" and by attributing it to them by default, just because of their habit of stealing land. The modern Kurds of that region are largely the 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation of muderers, thieves and squatters.

The point is that Armenians and other peoples of the region have long lived in mixed areas and that aspirations of homogeneous national states are unrealistic and dangerous.

In the hypothetical case of western Armenia being liberated, no one is saying that it would be a homogenous region. If Kurds and Turks want to live there then they can continue to do so-- the main difference is the official language will be Armenian and their taxes will go to the Armenian state as opposed to Ankara.

The land belongs not to any one particular nation, but to all those who live in it.

Yes, and only those who have raped and pillaged the local Armenians have had the advantage of successfully living in that region. Our goal, in my opinion, is to simply regain our right to our stolen and destroyed property. However, this should not be viewed as compensation-- if someone burned down your backyard and stole it, its not compensation to have the charred remains returned to you. If large numbers of Armenians relinquish their claim on these properties, then the final phase of the genocide will have succeeded.

[Icy]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

One day, we will have all of our lands back.
It may look far away, but it won't be.

[Federate]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Got to love Vladimir Zhirinovsky
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Turkey should withdraw from the territories and return them to Armenia: Jirinovski


“We will liberate Western Armenia and return to Armenia,” said Vladimir Jirinovski, vice-president of the State Duma and the president of the Liberal Democrat Party, according to Echo of Moscow.

“Armenians, I address to you. We will liberate Western Armenia and return to Armenia. Turkey should withdraw from the occupied territories; we should make it do so. North-eastern Turkey belongs to Armenia, the south-eastern Turkey – to Kurdistan. Turkey has not existed in this territory, here was ancient Armenian state. I declare openly: Turkey should withdraw from the territories and return them to Armenia and you should back the return of Crimea to Russia,” V. Jirinovski said.

http://www.panorama.am/en/politics/2010/04/26/jirinovski/

[hipeter924]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Major win there. I think the Pan Turkic rants about Armenia returning "historic Azeri lands" just backfired. xD

[Tigranakert]

Re: Liberation of Western Armenia

Vladimir Jirinovski is j-e-w-i-s-h. Do not trust him.