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The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

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  • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

    The political analysis below is several years old but still very interesting and still very relevant.

    **************************

    An anti-American military confederacy may loom in Asia



    September 21st, 2005

    The members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), an intergovernmental association comprising China, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, will recognize the organization’s fifth anniversary in June 2006 with a much anticipated celebration, “Everyone agrees this first jubilee date must be celebrated accordingly,” said Vitally Vorobyev, Russia’s coordinator in the SCO. Washington, however, will not be joining in the festivities. The reason for Washington’s sour mood? Growing anxiety surrounding the ultimate mission of the SCO and its impact on Central Asia and the Middle East. Pictures taken by journalists of Russian President Vladimir Putin during the recent joint Russsian-Chinese Peace Mission 2005 military exercises, showing the president in full military attire and holding a large model warplane were not reassuring. His subsequent flight in a supersonic bomber specifically designed to deliver a nuclear payload did not help either.

    This raises an important question: with SCO leaders such as Russia’s Vladimir Putin, China’s Hu Jintao and Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad openly embracing military modernization and improved synergies, is the organization destined to become a military confederacy with the U.S. as its main target? “For the SCO to be turned into a military and political bloc or alliance, the present-day SCO would need to be dissolved. The legislation of some of the SCO member-countries makes this [military confederacy] impossible,” said Vitally Vorobyov. He immediately followed these comments with a contradictory statement, “Cooperation between defense agencies within the SCO framework can and should develop. The SCO makes provision for this, it’s nothing new.” Statements of this type from high-level Russian and SCO officials continue to perplex western intelligence officials, leading some to speculate that it may be only a matter of time before the SCO begins to exert its collective military influence in Central Asia and the Middle East.

    Peace Mission 2005

    In August, “Peace Mission 2005,” a joint eight-day military exercise involving 10,000 Russian and Chinese troops, was held in Russia’s Far East and China’s Shandong Peninsula. The exercises were led by Russian General Makhmut Gareyev, a veteran of World War II who fought against both Germany and Japan. Requests by Washington to reduce the scope of the exercises were rejected by both Russia and China. The joint exercises involved beach landings, airborne assaults, naval blockades, anti-ship missiles and precision bombing from strategic bombers. To the surprise of western intelligence officials, Russian Tu-95MS Bear and Tu-22M3 Backfire strategic bombers designed to carry nuclear-tipped cruise missiles were deployed during the exercises. The exercises reportedly involved a mock intervention to stabilize an imaginary country driven by ethnic strife. In response, the U.S. launched a week long “Joint Air Sea Exercise 2005” in Okinawa and Guam which included 10,000 troops and 100 warplanes from the USS Kitty Hawk strike group. In addition, the U.S. and South Korea participated in a twelve day “Ulchi Focus Lens 2005” military exercise. Taiwan has already announced that it has scheduled its own invasion defense exercise code named “Yama Sakura” for 2006. Taken collectively, the military exercises send a clear message to Moscow and Beijing that the U.S. is prepared to respond to any collaborative military threat.

    Recent Military Exchanges

    In September, Russian Defense Minister Sergey Ivanov announced his country had agreed to supply China with a total of 40 IL-76 transport and IL-78 refueling planes at a cost of about $1 billion. Later this month, Ivanov is expected to sign contracts to deliver Russian military vehicles to China. The recent plane and vehicle sales continue a trend of Russian military hardware transfers to China which have included: 200 fourth-generation fighter aircraft, several S-300 air defense batteries, guided missile destroyers and sophisticated submarines worth a combined $15 billion over the past ten years. In 2004 alone, Russian arms exports to China totaled $2.3 billion. According to Konstantin Makiyenko, the deputy director of the Center for Strategic and Technological Analysis, a Moscow-based think tank, China is also interested in purchasing Russian made A-50 Mainstay AWACS planes and a manufacturing license for the Su-30MK2 multi-role fighter. Moreover, Beijing has made it clear that wants to accelerate the purchase of advanced Russian fighters, unmanned aircraft and long and short-range missiles as part of its ongoing modernization program.

    Not surprisingly, Russian Defense Minister Ivanov announced this month that Russian servicemen would travel to China for training stating, “Russia needs more experts who can speak Chinese.” More than 500 Chinese students already study at Russian military universities. But why the sudden urgency for improved communication between the two militaries? Washington has begun to take notice of the evolving relationship. U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack commented in August, “We would hope that anything that they [China and Russia] do is not something that would be disruptive to the current atmosphere in the [Central Asia] region.” Unfortunately, Mr. McCormack may be disappointed.

    Future Military Exercises

    Immediately after the completion of their historic joint military exercises, Russia and China announced plans to hold additional joint exercises in 2006. Both countries anticipate expanding the exercises to include SCO member states Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan, as well as observer states India, Iran, Mongolia and Pakistan. “It is possible by the time we decide to hold such exercises with China; other SCO countries would be willing to join, like India,” one Russian official said. Russian Defense Minister Ivanov concurred, “I think that future Russia-China military exercises will be held and other members of the SCO will probably take part in them.” Russia and India are scheduled to hold their first joint army drill next month, with mock raids on terrorist facilities taking place in the Indian province of Rajastahn, on the boarder with Pakistan. Andrei Kokoshin, a former secretary of the Russian Security Council and a member of parliament said the impending follow-up to the Peace Mission 2005 exercises could be part of a Russia-China-India triangle which supports the increased activity of the SCO. “The exercise might focus on maintaining stability in Central Asia and ensuring the security of oil supplies via sea routes,” Kokoshin said.

    Chinese, Indian and Russian naval assets working in unison to protect oil supplies in the Persian Gulf? This comment shows another disturbing aspect of the emerging confederacy, an increased willingness to use its combined military strength to secure strategic energy reserves located in the Middle East. The mere thought of the Persian Gulf clogged with warships enforcing multilateral allegiances and interests is enough to make any intelligence analyst stay up all night. General Yury Baluyevskiy, Chief of Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, further elaborated on the topic of SCO military cooperation, “I do not rule out that, if a decision is made by the SCO, of which Russian and China are members, the armed forces of our countries may be involved in performing certain tasks.” General Baluyevskiy failed to elaborate on what those “certain tasks” would include.

    Observer country Pakistan is also becoming more active in the military aspects of the SCO. In September, Chinese General Liang Guanglie, a member of the Central Military Commission and Chief of Staff of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), met with Pakistani General Ehsan Ul Haq, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to strengthen military-to-military ties. During the meeting in Beijing, the two generals exchanged views on issues of common global and regional interest, as well as army building. The most troubling development of the past month related to the SCO is the growing prospect of a nuclear-obsessed Iran joining the organization as a permanent member. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the newly elected conservative President of Iran, is a proven U.S. antagonist and a firm believer in spreading revolutionary Islamist ideology throughout the Muslim world. His recent comments at the U.N. concerning the U.S. show a preparation for confrontation with the U.S. Making matters worse; Iran is planning to build up its military forces. Iran had planned to double its military budget by 2010, but thanks to record oil revenues, that timetable has been adjusted to 2008.

    New Thinking Needed

    The SCO is a menacing confederacy of powerful nations arising out of the shadows of the Cold War that could cause tremendous global instability and even lead to world war. Geopolitics aside, the SCO has the potential to become the most powerful alliance on earth, combining Russia’s energy, military and technology expertise; China and India’s economic and human capital; and Iran’s enormous energy resources and growing military capabilities. This unique combination makes the SCO a formidable adversary for the U.S. In February, Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) chief of staff General Liang Guanglie said the Peace Mission 2005 exercises would, “protect the peace and stability in our region and the world.” The world? The world has been led to believe that the SCO is a regional alliance designed to address issues of mutual concern such as terrorism, separatism and extremism -- whatever they may mean at the moment for the members of the SCO. With military operations scheduled for 2006 and an expanded list of participating nations, the military threat posed by the SCO is starting to take shape.

    At this time, what steps need to be taken by the U.S. to prepare for a possible SCO military threat? First, the U.S. Congress, Department of Defense and U.S. intelligence community must recognize that the continued military modernization and integration involving Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Iran will directly threaten the U.S. and its allies within the next several years. This is an uncomfortable reality, but one which is taking shape right before our eyes. Second, calls by the SCO and others in the international community for an immediate withdraw of U.S. troops from the Middle East and Central Asia should be disregarded, due to the horrific consequences that the inevitable power vacuum would cause. Instead, strategic alliances should be strengthened with countries such as Georgia and the Ukraine to counter any regional threat.

    Third, recent calls by Iran for a Muslim seat on the UN Security Council should be viewed for what they are; an effort by Tehran to weaken U.S. legitimacy in the international community and diminish its influence in Central Asia and the Middle East. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s announcement that his country will sell “peaceful” nuclear technology to other Islamic countries is too chilling to contemplate. In short, the SCO is an immature, but potentially dangerous confederacy of countries with a mutual interest to dethrone the U.S. and if necessary, confront it militarily. Under the guise of economic partnership, regional alliances and friendship, China, Russia and the other members of the SCO are rapidly increasing their collective power. Recent Pentagon reports identifying China as a growing threat are indeed accurate, but don’t go far enough. The reports are deficient in that they base their analysis and predictions on countries such as China acting unilaterally. As a result, compulsory discussions concerning the rise of regional and global alliances that threaten the U.S. are not taking place. This could be a fatal mistake, since the SCO has become the perfect vehicle for coordinated military action in the future.

    Frederick W. Stakelbeck Jr. is an expert on bilateral and trilateral alliances as they relate to China foreign policy.

    Source: http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...rticle_id=4837
    Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

    Նժդեհ


    Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

    Comment


    • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

      Russia-China trade up 44% to $48 bln in 2007



      Trade between Russia and China increased 44%, year-on-year, in 2007 to $48.2 billion, a Chinese government official said on Sunday. Speaking at the 19th international fair for trade and economic cooperation in Harbin, Ling Ji, deputy director of the Europe department at China's Ministry of Commerce, said that bilateral trade between both countries continued to expand rapidly as it increased 39% in January-May 2008, year-on-year, to $22.1 billion. Ji said that in 2007 China posted a surplus of $8.8 billion in trade with Russia for the first time in the past 15 years, adding that the country would also build up Russian imports to balance mutual trade. Ji said the exports of Chinese electronics and engineering products to Russia in 2007 accounted for about 40% of total exports to Russia ($10.3 billion) while imports from Russia mostly included energy products and raw materials, which accounted for more than 90%.

      Source: http://en.rian.ru/world/20080615/110549938.html
      Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

      Նժդեհ


      Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

        Originally posted by Armenian View Post
        I guess I got worried because of the not so pleasant debate I had with Hellektor regarding Russian-Armenian relations. I have noticed that Persian Armenians, like Hellektor and yourself, get very sensitive when Armenians discuss issues pertaining to Iran. Like when Hellektor lost it when I insinuated that Russian-Armenians are more important - economically/politically - than other diasporan Armenians. It's just that I like you and I respect you, I don't want to upset you. Anyway, here is an interesting interview by given an Azeri political scientist regarding Russian-Armenian relations. I want Iranian-Armenians like you and Hellektor to fully understand the real geopolitical climate of the Caucasus and what Turks are thinking about Russian-Armenian relations:


        I perfectly realize the necessity of our relations with Russia, at this stage and this period of time, just the same as our cordial relations with Iran at any period of time. But yes I see a difference in the nature of our relations with these countries:

        Today, Russia is on the rise, be it politically or economically or… and sees Armenia as an strategic ally but has it been always like that? Has the course of events in the Caucasus always been in favour of Russians and Armenia? Has Russia often times viewed Armenia as a friendly ally? Or no, because of the precarious conditions of the Caucasus (politically speaking) they may shift any day towards Azerbaijan or Georgia? Another point would be; how long this line of policy put forth by Putin will remain at work in the Russian Federation? How will our relations evolve with the end of what I would like to call, Putinism? That's what concerns me about our relations with the Russians.

        On the other hand, we see Armenia and Iran having cordial relations on different levels throughout history with not so many ups and downs. The two countries have almost always maintained the good relations regardless of the regimes ruling in Iran, regardless of the political, economical, social upheaval they have been facing throughout their existence. Sharing a common enemy and a common goal of keeping the Turks (and spread of Pan-Turkism) at bay could also explain the unchanging, solid, non-volatile nature of Armenia's relations with Iran.

        That's where lies the difference in my opinion...

        Originally posted by zeytuntsi View Post
        "'strategic' asset to the Armenian Republic" as in ignore and seldom cover the news from Armenia but frequently cover what happens in Georgia? A real "strategic" asset.

        Ask that good brain of yours why Georgia has been/ is being covered more.

        Comment


        • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

          Originally posted by Lucin View Post
          Ask that good brain of yours why Georgia has been/ is being covered more.
          My good brain tells your good brain that calling her a "strategic" asset meant that Armenian does not know what he's talking about. Do you know what you're talking about or just being a smart alec? How regularly do you watch Russia Today?

          Why your good brain thinks that she is an "strategic" asset?
          For example, did your good brain compare the coverage of the recent elections in Georgia and Armenia?
          Last edited by zeytuntsi; 06-16-2008, 09:54 AM.

          Comment


          • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

            Originally posted by Lucin View Post
            Today, Russia is on the rise, be it politically or economically or… and sees Armenia as an strategic ally but has it been always like that? Has the course of events in the Caucasus always been in favour of Russians and Armenia? Has Russia often times viewed Armenia as a friendly ally? Or no, because of the precarious conditions of the Caucasus (politically speaking) they may shift any day towards Azerbaijan or Georgia? Another point would be; how long this line of policy put forth by Putin will remain at work in the Russian Federation? How will our relations evolve with the end of what I would like to call, Putinism? That's what concerns me about our relations with the Russians.
            My response to Eric in the previous page applies here as well:

            For Russia, Armenia is a geopolitical asset. For Armenia, Russia is a life line. This Caucasian reality, if I may, is in itself precarious for Armenia. Armenia, as a nation-state, exists simply due to Russia's presence in the region. However, at certain times we Armenians had serious problems with the superpower to the north. In the late 19th century Czarist Russia had problems with Armenian nationalists. In the early 20th century, Bolshevik occupied Russia gave away Armenian lands to Turks and Azeris. However, those who signed away Armenians lands to the Turks were the Bolsheviks, not Russians. The Bolsheviks did so because they were attempting to bring Turkey, a major geopolitical player unlike Armenia, into Bolshevism.

            Tiny, landlocked, impoverished, resource-less nation surrounded by enemies does not hold much weight in geopolitics. Thus, we Armenians need to play a better role in Russian society. There is well over two million Armenians in Russia. Like Jews have molded American mindset towards Israel, we Armenians need to mold Russian mindset towards Armenia. Russia must be made to see Armenia as a crucial national asset that it must protect. Russians must be convinced that Armenia is an natural ally. Armenians must convince them that a powerful pro-Russian Armenia in the Caucasus will be a bulwork against Turkish, American, Iranian and/or NATO designs for the region.

            Russia's national policy makers, intelligencia and nationalists already realize this about Armenia. As long as Russian nationalists are in power Armenia does not have much to worry about. From a nationalistic perspective, Russian-Armenian alliance is a natural union. All current indicators suggest that Armenia will continue playing a very important role in the Kremlin for the foreseeable future. However, another unforeseen calamity in the region may change that situation. Thus, Armenia needs to use its alliance with Russia today to build a viable economy and a powerful military so that 'if' things change in the Kremlin in the future Armenia would be better able to handle itself without Russian support.


            The Caucasus is a tough and unforgiving neighborhood. I really don't see how Armenia would survive in the longterm without Russian protection. The situation we are in is not pretty. That is why I take politics seriously.


            On the other hand, we see Armenia and Iran having cordial relations on different levels throughout history with not so many ups and downs. The two countries have almost always maintained the good relations regardless of the regimes ruling in Iran, regardless of the political, economical, social upheaval they have been facing throughout their existence. Sharing a common enemy and a common goal of keeping the Turks (and spread of Pan-Turkism) at bay could also explain the unchanging, solid, non-volatile nature of Armenia's relations with Iran.
            Throughout history Armenians in Iran have been an isolated ethnic community that has stayed out of Iran's political problems. Moreover, drastic cultural/religious differences between Iranians and Armenians kept the two ethnicities apart. This unique situation has allowed Armenians to maintain their identity. I must also say that compared to other regional peoples, ethnic Persians are a refined/cultured people. This, along with the fact that Armenians have been hard working and loyal Persian subjects, has created good relations between the two peoples.

            The Russian Empire/Soviet Union/Russian Federation, stretching from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific Ocean, from the Arctic to the Caucasus, has always been one of the most tumultuous and one of the most complicated pieces of real estate to rule over. You can't even compare the Russian reality to that of the Iranian reality. When Armenians had their problem with Czarist Russia (late 19th century), it was because of the Armenian nationalist movement's attempt to gain independence from the Empire (our struggle was not solely against Turks). Russians feeling threatened in the Caucasus came down hard on the Armenian nationalist movement by confiscating some church property and closing down some schools, which they rescinded a short time later.

            Had you been in power in Russia at the time what would you have done? This was politics. However, you didn't see Russian military units going around murdering men, women and children by the hundreds of thousands, or expelling Armenians enmass from their native homeland.

            Anyway, what is the biggest difference between Russian-Armenian and Persian-Armenian relations?

            Russia ruled over the Armenian homeland/nation while Iran ruled over a large Armenian community living within its nation.

            Can you see the difference between the two and how the relations in question would be on a different plain?

            And the Bolsheviks are completely another story. Bolshevism was not a Russian movement. Orthodox Slavs suffered more under Bolshevism than any other ethnicity. However, Bolsheviks also proved to be a two sided coin; there were good and bad aspects of Bolshevism in Armenia. Today, Russian-Armenian relations have a whole new dynamics. For the foreseeable future, Russia will need Armenia as a strategic partner in the Caucasus. So, instead of whining and complaining and forecasting disaster and causing problems, let's take advantage of this unique situation and build a strong Armenia. By Armenians reaching top positions in Russia, their presence alone can potentially impact Russian policy making and the sentiments of the Russian populace. This is our chance to be in Russia what Jews are in America.

            Yet, we have ignorant and self-destructive voices in our community saying Armenians are being persecuted in Russia and should leave as a result.

            We keep hearing how wonderful Iranians treat Armenians. Do we have any high ranking Armenians in Iran? Does Iran arm Armenians. Does Iran protect Armenian borders and airspace? Was Turkey afraid of Iran when it chose not to invade Armenia in 1993? Iranian-Armenian relations are good, no? Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know no Parkahai has ever attempted to rise up and fight against Persian authorities in Iran. The Parsahai have never attempted to secede from Iran. So, why should Iranian-Armenian relations be bad at all? What would have happened to the Armenian community in Iran had Armenians there caused trouble for the central authorities? In such a scenario, do you think you would be here complimenting Iranian-Armenian relations? Nonetheless, let's not forget about David Bek and his fight against Safavid Persians in the Caucasus?

            History and politics have to be interpreted objectively and rationally. When looking at Armenian-Iranian relations and/or Armenian-Russian relations please use cold rational, not sentimental feelings.

            Let me ask you a question: Did you know that the Iranian intelligence was involved in the Chechen insurgency in southern Russia in the early-mid 90s? Did you know that Iranian intelligence was also involved in bringing Afghan "Mujahadeen" fighters into Azerbaijan to fight Armenians in the early-mid 90s? Did you know that Iranian intelligence also had a hand in what occurred in Serbia?

            Lucin jan, realize that most things that occur in the political world don't make the news headlines. The fact is, Iran attempted to play both sides of the battle lines from the Balkans to the Caucasus to Central Asia during the 90s. Why did they stop? Because of the growing Turkish menace and Western designs against Iran which forced Tehran to seek protection from Russia. If you study international relations closely, scientifically, you will immediately realize that there is no room for sentiments or ethics in geopolitics.

            You are a brilliant girl with a lot of depth. Please use your logic and insight when analyzing international relations. I am getting tired of explaining these obvious political nuances to people over-and-over-and-over-again. Russian-Armenian alliance is an organic reality, it's a natural outcome if one takes into consideration the current geopolitical climate in the world. And this relationship will remain so for the foreseeable future. Therefore, instead of complaining, Armenians need to be happy and use this unique opportunity to strengthen Armenia.

            As long as Russian nationalists are in power in the Kremlin Armenians don't have much to worry about - a lot to look forward to.

            Ask that good brain of yours why Georgia has been/ is being covered more.
            The Zeytountsi character is a clown. As a typical America-hay, he talks out his ass. Leave him be. He is doing a good job of making a fool of himself.
            Last edited by Armenian; 06-16-2008, 07:38 PM.
            Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

            Նժդեհ


            Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

              And lets not forget about the Vartanank Wars during the 4th and early 5th century. As with the Russia, Armenia has gotten along with Iran at times and not on other occasions.
              For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
              to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



              http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

              Comment


              • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                Barack Obama said that he recognized Armenian Genocide. So he got Armenian diaspora support.

                But I didn't really understand, are Armenians in Russian side to against US or play a double game ?

                Comment


                • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                  Originally posted by Kanki View Post
                  Barack Obama said that he recognized Armenian Genocide. So he got Armenian diaspora support.

                  But I didn't really understand, are Armenians in Russian side to against US or play a double game ?
                  You don't understand because you are a dunce. Get lost.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                    Yeah please leave.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

                      Originally posted by Armenian View Post

                      Let me ask you a question: Did you know that the Iranian intelligence was involved in the Chechen insurgency in southern Russia in the early-mid 90s? Did you know that Iranian intelligence was also involved in bringing Afghan "Mujahadin" fighters into Azerbaijan to fight Armenians in the early-mid 90s?
                      Armenian, do you have a source for this?

                      Comment

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