The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[robertik1]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Armenian, do you have a source for this?

Yeah Id like to know too.

[Angessa]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Barack Obama said that he recognized Armenian Genocide. So he got Armenian diaspora support.

But I didn't really understand, are Armenians in Russian side to against US or play a double game ?

Why are you even on this website Turk? Clearly you have to much free time and like to pick fights/insult agianst Armenians. I Am sure you have more fun on a racist pan-turk or Turanism or grey wolves website. Nobody is agianst US it about balance of power and following international law. If that is agianst united states than so be it.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Armenian, do you have a source for this?

Yeah Id like to know too.

Some years ago (2002?) I employed a Bosnian Muslim construction worker to do work in my house. He was good young man, very civil very kind. Soon after he started working for me I found out that he had been trained as a sniper in Bosnia. He told me that during the early-mid 1990s US intelligence, Turkish intelligence, Pakistani intelligence and Iranian intelligence had established training facilities, supplied armaments and setup war funds and relief efforts in an effort to help Bosnia's Muslims against Serbs and Croats. He also told me that CIA agents and Al-Qaeda agents would working side-by-side in Bosnia. Don't forget I'm getting this information soon after the attack of September 11, 2001. Needless to say, my jaw dropped to the ground. Anyway, he never finish the work in my house. I heard from one of his Hispanic helpers who had stopped by to pick up the Bosnian's tool chest that he was apprehended and deported back to Bosnia. To this day, I don't know why, nor do I want to know.

Anyway, I recall reading periodically in Western news sources about Iran's involvement in Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, and Bosnia during the 1990s. But I never payed much attention to it at the time.

I got more information about the covert Iranian involvement in Chechnya (against Russians) and Azerbaijan (against Armenians) from the book called Chechen Jihad. However, the book was written by an Israeli-American with top level connections in Washington DC. Thus, I believe that the book has an obvious anti-Iranian agenda. I don't know how much of it I would believe. Nonetheless, putting aside details from the book in question, I think it's quite obvious that Iran did play a role in places like Central Asia, the Balkans and the Caucasus. In my opinion, Iran attempted to play both sides of the battle lines during the 1990s. Tehran did this for their national interests. They attempted to setup shop in places that were newly emerging. Why did they stop trying? In my opinion, because of the growing Turkish menace and emerging Western designs against Iran. This, in essence, forced Tehran to consolidate its political assets and seek protection from Russia.

Don't forget, here we are talking about intelligence services, not the Iranian people or even the Iranian government for that matter. Many of the things intelligence agencies do politicians in their respective nations know nothing about, except for a few top level officials. Don't let anything surprise you in the dark and deadly world of intelligence services.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Gazprom to invest up to $420 billion in projects by 2020

Russian energy giant Gazprom intends to invest between 8 and 10 trillion rubles ($338-422 billion) in a range of projects between 2009 and 2020, a company spokesman said on Monday. "According to our forecasts, investment will be between eight and ten trillion rubles by 2020, and annual investment is estimated at some 700 billion rubles," Sergei Pankratov, the head of Gazprom's further development department, said during a briefing. He said most of the funds would be invested in transportation projects. He also said that no more than 30% of the sum would be invested in production. Up until 2013, new projects related to development on the Yamal Peninsula in northwest Siberia, which holds Russia's largest natural gas reserves, and on the continental shelf, will be the main target for investment, the official said. The company plans to increase its annual natural gas output by 100 billion cubic meters by 2020 via its new projects, which are expected to account for about a half of Gazprom's gas production by that time. The company produced 548.6 billion cubic meters of gas in 2007, and expects a 2.3% rise this year.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/business/20080616/110680377.html

In related news:

Gazprom expects $64 bln gas sales outside CIS in 2008

Gazprom plans to export over 163 billion cubic meters of natural gas worth an estimated $64 billion to non-CIS countries this year, the Russian gas monopoly said on Wednesday. The average export price is expected to stand at $401 per 1,000 cu m. The company delivered 150.5 billion cu m of gas to central and western Europe in 2007, a 0.4% decline on the previous year due to the warm winter. However, sales revenue increased 5% to a record $39.5 billion last year, with the average export price at $272.8 per 1,000 cu m. In 2007, natural gas accounted for 13% of income from Russian exports.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/business/20080618/111033802.html

Russian TNK-BP partners wanted 7.6% stake in BP - paper

Four Russian billionaire shareholders in TNK-BP sought to swap their 50% in the joint oil venture for a 7.6% stake in the British oil major, a Russian business daily said on Monday. Kommersant said the Russian partners could get 7.6% in BP, whose market value is estimated at $215.5 billion. Its Russian venture is estimated at $32.8 billion. Viktor Vekselberg, one of four Russian investors in the joint venture, said as quoted by Kommersant that BP had rejected the proposal, as well as the investors' other demands on management and strategy. The Russian oligarchs have demanded equal board representation, a cut in TNK-BP's foreign staff and the replacement of CEO Robert Dudley, who they accuse of putting British oil major BP's interests ahead of those of TNK-BP, including in oil projects abroad. AAR - the consortium of Russian investors, also including German Khan, Mikhail Fridman and Len Blavatnik - said on Wednesday it would sue BP, which holds the other 50% in TNK-BP, for attempts to seize control in the joint venture. BP Chairman Peter Sutherland said last week the Russian partners had resorted to methods used by Russia's corporate raiders to wrest control of the company. Russian media reports on Monday quoted Vekselberg and Fridman as saying the asset swap was not longer being discussed. "No way! The sale [of the 50% stake] is out of the question today. When the conflict is resolved, we will see," Vekselberg said. Fridman said: "Any price [for the stake] proposed today would not correspond to the company's value in the future. TNK-BP has enormous growth prospects given the planned cuts in tax burden for oil producers in Russia and growing oil prices...," he said. Set up in 2003, TNK-BP is Russia's third largest producer. It accounts for a quarter of BP's overall output. Fridman said the Russian shareholders' proposals were still on the table, but no new talks have been scheduled. AAR plans legal action in the international arbitration court in Stockholm and in Russia.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080616/110665629.html

[zeytuntsi]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

http://www.armradio.am/news/?part=pol&id=12970

Official Baku expects Russia to expresses its will on the settlement of the Karabakh conflict

Official Baku believes that the visit of the Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to Azerbaijan will provide conditions for further development of the relations between the two countries. One of the fundamental directions of Azerbaijans foreign policy is to establish close corporation with the neighboring countries. Azerbaijan attaches great importance to its relations with Russia, Novruz Mammadov, head of the international relations department of the Presidential Administration of Azerbaijan said to TrendNews.

Newly elected Russian President Dmitry Medvedev will pay his first official visit to Azerbaijan on 3 to 4 July. The visit will take place at an invitation of the Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev.

The visit of Dmirti Medvedev shows that Azerbaijan is one of the four or five priority countries for Russia, Mammadov said.

According to Mammadov, Azerbaijan wants only one thing from Russia. We believe that if Russia expresses its will on the settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, it would be fair and right. The position of Russia on the settlement of this conflict is of great significance. If Russia takes more fair and concrete position in this regard, Nagorno-Karabakh conflict will be solved soon, Mammadov said.

[zeytuntsi]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

The Zeytountsi character is a clown. As a typical America-hay, he talks out his ass. Leave him be. He is doing a good job of making a fool of himself.

America-hay?
I see that you enjoy "talking out your ass" as you say. Do you always state what you don't know and become so defensive when you're corrected? As for who's doing a good job making fool of himself, it will be real hard to beat you at that.

[Supreme]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Some years ago (2002?) I employed a Bosnian Muslim construction worker to do work in my house. He was good young man, very civil very kind. Soon after he started working for me I found out that he had been trained as a sniper in Bosnia. He told me that during the early-mid 1990s US intelligence, Turkish intelligence, Pakistani intelligence and Iranian intelligence had established training facilities, supplied armaments and setup war funds and relief efforts in an effort to help Bosnia's Muslims against Serbs and Croats. He also told me that CIA agents and Al-Qaeda agents would working side-by-side in Bosnia. Don't forget I'm getting this information soon after the attack of September 11, 2001. Needless to say, my jaw dropped to the ground. Anyway, he never finish the work in my house. I heard from one of his Hispanic helpers who had stopped by to pick up the Bosnian's tool chest that he was apprehended and deported back to Bosnia. To this day, I don't know why, nor do I want to know.

Insane and awesome story.

Anyway, I recall reading periodically in Western news sources about Iran's involvement in Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, and Bosnia during the 1990s. But I never payed much attention to it at the time.

I've only heard somethings about Iran's involvement in Bosnia and Tajikistan.

I got more information about the covert Iranian involvement in Chechnya (against Russians) and Azerbaijan (against Armenians) from the book called Chechen Jihad. However, the book was written by an Israeli-American with top level connections in Washington DC. Thus, I believe that the book has an obvious anti-Iranian agenda. I don't know how much of it I would believe. Nonetheless, putting aside details from the book in question, I think it's quite obvious that Iran did play a role in places like Central Asia, the Balkans and the Caucasus. In my opinion, Iran attempted to play both sides of the battle lines during the 1990s. Tehran did this for their national interests. They attempted to setup shop in places that were newly emerging. Why did they stop trying? In my opinion, because of the growing Turkish menace and emerging Western designs against Iran. This, in essence, forced Tehran to consolidate its political assets and seek protection from Russia.

I've seen the book but haven't read it.

I don't understand why Iran would be helping the worthless "islamic" Chechen's against a somewhat vital ally like Russia, especially at a time when Russia was Iran's main arms supplier. I do agree with you about the Iran trying to setup shops in newly emerging republics but it knew it would eventually have to back off when superpowers were involved.

Don't forget, here we are talking about intelligence services, not the Iranian people or even the Iranian government for that matter. Many of the things intelligence agencies do politicians in their respective nations know nothing about, except for a few top level officials. Don't let anything surprise you in the dark and deadly world of intelligence services.

I'm sure there are good Iranian's and Iranian leaders that would be disgusted by the actions of the intelligence services, if they only knew. This also goes for American's and others.

IMO someone needs to write a book exposing "secular" Turkeys involvement in Islamic terrorism from Azerbaijan to Bosnia and then on to Chechnya It would be a great way to get westerners against the scum turks. (or another reason to)

[skhara]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I don't understand why Iran would be helping the worthless "islamic" Chechen's against a somewhat vital ally like Russia, especially at a time when Russia was Iran's main arms supplier. I do agree with you about the Iran trying to setup shops in newly emerging republics but it knew it would eventually have to back off when superpowers were involved.

I certainly recall reading plenty of Iranian involvement in Bosnia. By the same token, its not completely outlandish that Iran did the same in Chechnya. Although their role is pretty obscure and little info exists. I don't fully understand what their motivations could have been.

We certainly see today the split in "alliances" in the Islamic world with Bosnia-Albania-Turkey-Azerbaijan-Saudi(and the arabs)-Pakistan on one side and thte Iranians-Syrians-Lebanese(a significant chunk)-Palestinians on the other.

Armenian made a comment about the "Iranian people" above in regards to the Chechen conflict. When I was in my teens (during the first Chechen war), my family came to dinner to an Iranian family (my mother worked with an Iranian lady). Anyway, somewhere along the lines Chechnya was mentioned and the ladies husband declared that the "Russians are killing many people". I figure there was quite a bit of sympathy among the Iranian populace for the Chechens.

Anyway, politics aside -- Iranians are being trained to favor Muslims, that simply doesn't bode well for Armenian interests. Pragmatic government policy is one thing, but sympathy and ideology does bode a significant influence on policy. Just look at these "Christian zionist" freaks in the United States. J-e-ws work them constantly for they know that these "Christian zionists" play a huge part in making or braking politicians.

PS:

Supreme, welcome here . Glad you could join us.

[Lucin]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Russia's national policy makers, intelligencia and nationalists already realize this about Armenia. As long as Russian nationalists are in power Armenia does not have much to worry about. From a nationalistic perspective, Russian-Armenian alliance is a natural union. All current indicators suggest that Armenia will continue playing a very important role in the Kremlin for the foreseeable future. However, another unforeseen calamity in the region may change that situation. Thus, Armenia needs to use its alliance with Russia today to build a viable economy and a powerful military so that 'if' things change in the Kremlin in the future Armenia would be better able to handle itself without Russian support.

I agree. Didn't I say the same more or less, dear? Yes, as long as Russian nationalists ( Putinism) prevail in Russia, we do 'not' have much to worry about but as I said my concern had to do with the unstable nature of politics in Russia, in particular… isn't it a legitimate concern?

We keep hearing how wonderful Iranians treat Armenians. Do we have any high ranking Armenians in Iran? Does Iran arm Armenians. Does Iran protect Armenian borders and airspace? Was Turkey afraid of Iran when it chose not to invade Armenia in 1993? Iranian-Armenian relations are good, no? Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know no Parkahai has ever attempted to rise up and fight against Persian authorities in Iran. The Parsahai have never attempted to secede from Iran. So, why should Iranian-Armenian relations be bad at all? What would have happened to the Armenian community in Iran had Armenians there caused trouble for the central authorities? In such a scenario, do you think you would be here complimenting Iranian-Armenian relations? Nonetheless, let's not forget about David Bek and his fight against Safavid Persians in the Caucasus?

As far as your comparison of the two communities; I must say, it's not right to compare them. To keep it short; on one hand we have about two million Armenians in Russia while a handful of Armenians in Iran...

No Parskahai in high ranks of government in the current regime? Yeah, you are right. The reason is not negligence or lack of interest by Armenians but the laws put forward by Khomeini, what is known as White Revolution in Iran where religious minorities ( Jews, in particular) cannot infiltrate within the governmental institutions. It's a highly policed state, I must say.

Let me ask you a question: Did you know that the Iranian intelligence was involved in the Chechen insurgency in southern Russia in the early-mid 90s? Did you know that Iranian intelligence was also involved in bringing Afghan "Mujahadeen" fighters into Azerbaijan to fight Armenians in the early-mid 90s? Did you know that Iranian intelligence also had a hand in what occurred in Serbia?

Plain idiocy. I don't see how such a move would benefit Iran? A weakened Russia, especially at a time where the country has been enormously under pressure cannot be in Iran's interest.

Bringing Afghan Mojahedins to fight for the Azeris??? Is this accurate? If so, then what's with the talk about Iran helping Armenia indirectly in this ordeal? It's contradictory…

You are a brilliant girl with a lot of depth. Please use your logic and insight when analyzing international relations. I am getting tired of explaining these obvious political nuances to people over-and-over-and-over-again...

Why? Are you tired of me? But repetition is the mother of learning. No?

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I agree. Didn't I say the same more or less, dear? Yes, as long as Russian nationalists ( Putinism) prevail in Russia, we do 'not' have much to worry about but as I said my concern had to do with the unstable nature of politics in Russia, in particular… isn't it a legitimate concern?

Well, in reality it's not "Putinism," it's more like "FSB" or "GRU"-ism. Putin was the chosen by the FSB elite to become president in their bid to come back to power in Russia. Obviously, Putin proved to be a very-very powerful choice. And again, I have always said Russia has tended to be unstable due to its nature. That is why I have said over-and-over again that Armenia needs to use this opportunity with Russia to build a powerful nation. So that if Russia falls into disarray or one day decides Armenia is not important, Armenia would be able to take care of itself without Russian support.

As far as your comparison of the two communities; I must say, it's not right to compare them. To keep it short; on one hand we have about two million Armenians in Russia while a handful of Armenians in Iran...

I alway said it's senseless/pointless to compared but it was you who compared in the past, not to mention individuals like Hellektor. Iran has had several hundred thousand (250K-500K) Armenians living there, most of whom have been living there for generations. The two millions Armenians of Russia (half of whom are probably recent immigrants) live in nation that has well over 125 million inhabitants and is by far the largest and most complex nation on earth. Proportionally, the Armenian population in Russia is about the same as the Armenian population in Iran. Armenians should have played a better more important role in Iran, I think. The million or so Russian-Armenians have done much-much better than all our other diaspora communities combined.

No Parskahai in high ranks of government in the current regime? Yeah, you are right. The reason is not negligence or lack of interest by Armenians but the laws put forward by Khomeini, what is known as White Revolution in Iran where religious minorities ( Jews, in particular) cannot infiltrate within the governmental institutions. It's a highly policed state, I must say.

Lucin jan, you are making excuses. So, Armenians don't rise the ladder in Iran because of Islamic fundamentalism... But that's the reality in Iran. However, had Iran still been in Washington's pocket, trust me the Iranian-Armenian community there would be mobilized against the pro-Russian Armenian Republic. Secular Iran would have posed one threat, an Islamic Iran poses another. Let me ask you this question. During the "glory" years of the Shah how many Armenians could be found in the top crust of Iranian society and what were their capacity. How many Iranian-Armenians volunteered to fight in Artsakh or smuggled weapons there? The fact is. Armenians of Iran keep to themselves and are good Iranian citizens. So, if Iranians have no problems with Armenians it's because they don't have problems with Armenians. Plus, Iran's fear of Azeris help as well.

Plain idiocy. I don't see how such a move would benefit Iran? A weakened Russia, especially at a time where the country has been enormously under pressure cannot be in Iran's interest.

The Soviet Union was not looked upon favorable by Iran to begin with. I don't know if Iran played a significant role in Afghanistan's fight against Soviet occupation, but I would not be surprised if it did. When the Soviet Union collapsed there was anarchy and chaos across the former Soviet republics of Eurasia. Since there are significant gas/oil reserves in the region, since the Caspian Sea region is considered vital to Iran's national security, since Iran had cultural ties with various Central Asian and Caucasian former Soviet peoples, Tehran attempted to plant its seeds in the Muslim populations of the region in question. This is my opinion.

A drastically weakened Russia was not a big factor at the time. Remember that in the mid-90s many political analysts, the CIA as well, were forecasting the total demise of the Russian nation. In a sense, taking advantage of the situation, Tehran tried to put its hands on something new with the hopes that it can manipulate it in its favor in the future. Don't forget, they had done the same in Lebanon and succeeded, thanks to the Shiite population there. They are doing the same in southern Iraq and succeeding, thanks to the Shiite population there. And believe it or not, Iran tries to infiltrate Armenia's security apparatus and they try to recruit Armenian agents as well. I have a well informed colleagues in Yerevan that tells me Armenia's national security services are infiltrated by Russian agents (the majority) Iranian agents and American agents.

So, why shouldn't Tehran have tried establishing a foothold in various Islamic centers around the world such as the Balkans, Caucasus and Central Asia? I am sure there were many other practical reasons that we are not exposed to. Anyway, by the late 90s Russia had started to make a gradual comeback and certain geopolitical factors had changed. I believe this forced Tehran to pull back and seek better relations with the Russian Federation. And since Putin's rise to power and Washington's recent agenda against Iran, Tehran is locked to Moscow for the foreseeable future.

Bringing Afghan Mojahedins to fight for the Azeris??? Is this accurate? If so, then what's with the talk about Iran helping Armenia indirectly in this ordeal? It's contradictory…

I am not going to standby that "fact." I have only heard it/read it several times from American sources. But if Tehran could conspire against Russia, which they did, they could do it against Russia's closest partner in the region, Armenia. Iran was playing both sides in Azerbaijan. Tehran tilted towards Armenia when it became apparent that Azerbaijan was going by the way of America and Turkey.

Why? Are you tired of me? But repetition is the mother of learning. No?

Lucin jan, that comment was not about you, it was a general expression of frustration. I love talking to you over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-over-and-over-and-over-and-over-and-over...