The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[karoaper]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Oh cool war toys!

I love how they say "dogfightinga"

Just wanted to add that the Director of OKB Sukhoi is an Armo, Michael Poghosian. He is also, according to one of the youtubes, the leader of the SU-47 project.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Mig-31 Supersonic Long Range High Altitude Interceptor:



MIG-31 part one (video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaj5Ms1IDsM
MIG-31 Foxhound (video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obJPqWOB_fo

Info: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...sia/mig-31.htm
Info: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-31.htm

Mig-29 Multi Role Combat Aircraft:



MiG-29 Part 1 (video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r1YdWru6Dg

MiG-29 "Fulcrum" (video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usM4XRY1HM8

Info: http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~junap95/fighters/mig29.htm
Info: http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...sia/mig-29.htm

[skhara]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I think the tactical advantage of the American fighters is stealth. Once Russia catches up in that aspect, the tactical advantage of the F15s, F-16s, and the next generation F-22 is gone, and all the tactical advantages go to the the Russian fighters.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I think the tactical advantage of the American fighters is stealth. Once Russia catches up in that aspect, the tactical advantage of the F15s, F-16s, and the next generation F-22 is gone, and all the tactical advantages go to the the Russian fighters.

There are only several aircrafts in the USAF that incorporate stealth technology. The F-15 and F-16 are not stealth aircrafts. And the F-22 is a "semi" stealth aircraft in that is does have a radar signature, albeit small. The F-22 is an amazing machine without doubt, so is the Eurofighter 2000. Nonetheless, Russia and China have begun the development of stealth technology as well. Also, there are news radars and new electronic countermeasures in development that will eventually make stealth aircrafts obsolete. What's more, true stealth aircraft have poor performance as fighters due to their unique design and composition. As of today, and perhaps in the foreseeable future, the overall finest combat aircrafts are the late model Migs and Sukhois, without doubt. Nevertheless, regardless of how good a certain weapons system is if you don't have proper maintenance, logistics, training, combat support, command and control, etc, its worthless. Modern warfare is heavily dependent upon an integration of various essential support systems.

[karoaper]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

From what I understand, and my LOMAC days, the American jets had (and might still have) superior radar and other tactical avionics and more autonomous missiles, namely American mid and long range air-to-air missiles are active radar homing, meaning US pilots can fire and forget, while Russian pilots need to maintains the lock on the target until the typically semi-active Russian missiles lock on themselves. This obviously puts the Russian pilots at a disadvantage. If they can survive the beyond visual fight, Russian fighters are impossible to deal with in a dogfight, due to superior maneuverability. Russian avionics have pretty awesome optical targeting systems to boot, like the helmet targeting system, allowing the pilot to just look at another fighter on the left or the right, which locks that fighter and he can then even fire the missile from such a aspect angle.

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I think the tactical advantage of the American fighters is stealth. Once Russia catches up in that aspect, the tactical advantage of the F15s, F-16s, and the next generation F-22 is gone, and all the tactical advantages go to the the Russian fighters.

Here you go Skhara, I knew they were already working on stealth aircrafts, I just didn't know that they were applying the technology in question to their famous Sukhoi models. However, I'm sure they won't go too far with the application on the SU-35s because it will weaken the aircraft's unique combat capabilities. I would guess that they would eventually develop another aircraft that hey would devoted to stealth.

Stealth design SU-35 aircraft Hostile radar range cut on Su-35s



Russian stealth researchers have developed materials and techniques that can reduce the head-on radar cross-section (RCS) of a Sukhoi Su-35 fighter by an order of magnitude, halving the range at which hostile radars can detect it. The research group - working with Sukhoi, but based at the Institute for Theoretical and Applied Electromagnetics (ITAE) at the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow - has performed more than 100 hours of testing on a reduced-RCS Su-35 and has also experimented with the use of plasmas - ionized gases - to reduce RCS.

US and European aircraft manufacturers have used specially developed materials to reduce the RCS of basically non-stealthy aircraft for many years. Notable examples include the Have Glass and Have Glass II modifications to the F-16. However, Russian work in this area was undisclosed until ITAE researchers presented a paper to a conference on stealth in London in late October 2003, which was organized by the International Quality and Productivity Centre. According to the ITAE presentation, Russian researchers have developed mathematical tools that can calculate scattering from complex configurations, such as an Su-35 carrying a full external missile load, by breaking them down into small facets and adding the effects of edge waves and surface currents. The antennas are modelled separately and then are added to the entire RCS picture.

"A problem of huge size" is how the researchers describe the Su-35 inlet, with a straight duct that provides direct visibility to the entire face of the engine compressor. The basic solution has been to apply ferro-magnetic radar absorbent material (RAM) to the compressor face and to the inlet duct walls, but this involves challenges. The researchers note: the material cannot be allowed to constrict airflow or impede the operation of anti-icing systems and must withstand high-speed airflows and temperatures up to 200°C. The ITAE team has developed and tested coating materials that meet these standards. A layer of RAM between 0.7mm and 1.4mm thick is applied to the ducts and a 0.5mm coating is applied to the front stages of the low-pressure compressor, using a robotic spray system. The result is a 10-15dB reduction in the RCS contribution from the inlets. The modified Su-35 also has a treated xxxxpit canopy which reflects radar waves, concealing the high RCS contribution from metal components in the xxxxpit. ITAE has developed a plasma-deposition process to deposit alternating layers of metallic and polymer materials, creating a coating that blocks radio-frequency waves, is resistant to cracking and crazing and does not trap solar heat in the xxxxpit. The plasma-coating process is then carried out robotically in a 22 m3 vacuum chamber.

ITAE and its partners have also developed plasma-type technology for applying ceramic coatings to the exhaust and afterburner. The conference video also showed the use of hand-held sprays to apply RAM to R-27 air-to-air missiles. ITAE has studied at least three techniques for reducing the RCS contribution of the radar antenna, in addition to the simplest method of deflecting the antenna upwards and treating or shrouding other components. One of these is to design a radome that can be switched from RF-transparent to RF-reflective. The interior of the radome would be coated with a cadmium sulphide or cadmium selenide thin-film semiconductor material which changes conductivity when illuminated with visible or ultra-violet light. However, the problem of making such a film has not been solved.

A second technique that is also described in Western literature is to place a frequency selective surface screen in front of the antenna. This is a foil-like metal screen etched with small apertures which allow RF energy to pass within a narrow waveband, corresponding to the radar's own operating frequency. This reduces RCS, according to ITAE, but at the expense of radar performance. However, ITAE has flight-tested a more exotic technology: the use of a low-temperature plasma screen in front of the radar antenna. The screen hardware is mounted in front of the antenna and is transparent to the radar when switched off. When activated, the screen absorbs some incoming radar energy and reflects the rest in safe directions over all RF bands lower than the frequency of the plasma cloud. It switches on and off in tens of microseconds, according to ITAE. In principle, this is the same as the 'plasma stealth system that was reportedly developed by the Keldysh Scientific Research Center (also part of the Academy) in 1999.

At the time, it was claimed that the system, using a 100kg generator, could reduce the RCS of any aircraft by two orders of magnitude, or 20dB. ITAE has not attempted to develop a whole-aircraft system, but researchers expressed the view that it would be difficult to apply except to a high-altitude, low-airspeed aircraft because the airstream would dissipate the plasma faster than it could be generated. The ITAE paper also gave some indications of the direction of stealth technology for future stealth aircraft. Test facilities include large compact indoor RCS ranges for large-scale models and outdoor ground-level ranges with short pylons that can be used to test full-size aircraft (rather than the models used for US pylon tests). In future designs, one emphasis is on large, complex skin panels, reducing the number of gaps and mechanical fasteners in the skin.

Source: http://home.iae.nl/users/wbergmns/stealth2.htm

What's more, the S-400 surface to air missile system is reputed to be able to detect and shoot down stealth aircraft. Here is a piece I found on it:

S-400 Triumph



The missile was launched without a hitch in the closed control loop at 12.25 Moscow time and engaged its target precisely at the desired point. The main objective of these tests was the functional check of new electronic equipment and software at the ground facilities, as well as the evaluation of missile guidance efficiency. The Triumph's leading developer is the Almaz Central Design Bureau. According to Alexander Lemansky, General Designer of the Bureau, the comprehensive manufacturer's tests of the new-generation air defense missile system have demonstrated that it possesses considerably higher performance qualities in terms of the engagement envelope, effectiveness, and a variety of potential targets than was available with the previous generation systems. This phase of the preliminary design tests is scheduled to be completed by late 1999, A. Lemansky stressed.

The S-400 system is intended to engage current and future air threats such as tactical and strategic aircraft, Tomahawk cruise missiles and other type missiles, including precision-guided ones, as well as AWACS aircraft, at ranges of up to 400 km. It can also detect stealth aircraft and other targets at all altitudes of their combat employment and at maximum ranges. Air Force Colonel General Anatoly Kornukov, Air Force Commander-in-Chief, characterizes the Triumph air defense system as a fourth-generation system with a brilliant future because its components are based on the most advanced know-how in the field of radiolocation, missile manufacturing, microcircuitry and computing technology.

Work on the development of the S-400 air defense missile system is a visible embodiment of cooperation among weapon developers. Besides the Almaz Central Design Bureau, these include leading enterprises of the Russian defense industry, such as the Fakel Machine-Building Design Bureau, the Novosibirsk Research Institute of Measuring Instruments, the St. Petersburg Special Machine-Building Design Bureau, and a number of others. General Designer Vladimir Svetlov, head of the Fakel Bureau-the leading developer of missiles for the S-400 systems-underlines that the Triumph is the first system in the country and, perhaps, in the world that can selectively use several types of missiles, both previously developed SAMs and the new, unique SAMs.

"The long-range missile," Vladimir Svetlov says, "has no analogs. The other missile, the 9M96, does have foreign counterparts, such as an advanced American missile for the PAC-3 Patriot system, but outperforms it, as well as the French Aster, in terms of overall effectiveness by approximately twofold." The two versions of the 9M96 medium-range missile (9M96E and 9M96E2) were discussed in detail in the March/Apr '99 issue of Military Parade. As for long-range missiles capable of engaging various targets at ranges of up to 400 km, It is premature to describe them, let us only note here that they are available and ready for trials.The Triumph air defense system can also use 48N6E missiles of the S-300PMU-1 system and 48N6E2 missiles of the S-300PMU-2 Favorit system. Incidentally, the 48N6E missile was successfully test-fired on February 12, 1999.

A high degree of automation at all phases of battle performance, as well as modern types of circuitry, has made it possible to considerably reduce the attending personnel of the S-400 air defense system. The principles of construction and the ramified communications network of the S-400 system allow its integration into different level chains of control throughout the Air Force and other armed services. The arrival of the Russian Federation Defense Minister, Igor Sergeyev, at the test site is indicative of the importance of the next phase of Triumph trials. He told journalists that it was too early to sum up the results before the commencement of the state tests. However, it is expedient, in his opinion, to make investments into the development of the S-400 air defense system because in terms of the effectiveness-cost ratio it is 2.5 times more proficient than the now-functioning systems.

Source: http://www.enemyforces.com/missiles/s400.htm

[skhara]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I remember when Serbs shot down the F-117, Russians got a hold of the planes remains to examine the "stealth" material. BTW, NATO claimed a "golden BB" as it turns out, Serbs located the plane electronically.

[skhara]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Maybe stealth technology is overrated in a more even match up. And may only be effective against much weaker opponents like Yugoslavia or Iraq.


How to Take Down an F-117

November 21, 2005: The Serbian battery commander, whose missiles downed an American F-16, and, most impressively, an F-117, in 1999, has retired, as a colonel, and revealed many of the techniques he used to achieve all this. Colonel Dani Zoltan, in 1999, commanded the 3rd battery of the 250th Missile Brigade. He had search and control radars, as well as a TV tracking unit. The battery had four quad launchers for the 21 foot long, 880 pound SA-3 missiles. The SA-3 entered service in 1961 and, while it had undergone some upgrades, was considered a minor threat to NATO aircraft. Zoltan was an example of how an imaginative and energetic leader can make a big difference. While Zoltan’s peers and superiors were pretty demoralized with the electronic countermeasures NATO (especially American) aircraft used to support their bombing missions, he believed he could still turn his ancient missiles into lethal weapons. The list of measures he took, and the results he got, should be warning to any who believe that superior technology alone will provide a decisive edge in combat. People still make a big difference. In addition to shooting down two aircraft, Zoltan’s battery caused dozens of others to abort their bombing missions to escape his unexpectedly accurate missiles. This is how he did it.

--- Zoltan had about 200 troops under his command. He got to know them well, trained hard and made sure everyone could do what was expected of them. This level of quality leadership was essential, for Zoltan's achievements were a group effort.

--- Zoltan used a lot of effective techniques that American air defense experts expected, but did not expect to encounter because of poor leadership by the enemy. For example, Zoltan knew that his major foe was HARM (anti-radar) missiles and electronic detection systems used by the Americans, as well as smart bombs from aircraft who had spotted him. To get around this, he used landlines for all his communications (no cell phones or radio). This was more of a hassle, often requiring him to use messengers on foot or in cars. But it meant the American intel people overhead were never sure where he was.

--- His radars and missile launchers were moved frequently, meaning that some of his people were always busy looking for new sites to set up in, or setting up or taking down the equipment. His battery traveled over 100,000 kilometers during the 78 day NATO bombing campaign, just to avoid getting hit. They did, and his troops knew all that effort was worth the effort.

--- The Serbs had spies outside the Italian airbase most of the bombers operated from. When the bombers took off, the information on what aircraft they, and how many, quickly made it to Zoltan and the other battery commanders.

--- Zoltan studied all the information he could get on American stealth technology, and the F-117. There was a lot of unclassified data, and speculation, out there. He developed some ideas on how to beat stealth, based on the fact that the technology didn’t make the F-117 invisible to radar, just very to get, and keep, a good idea of exactly where the aircraft was. Zoltan figured out how to tweak his radars to get a better lock on stealth type targets. This has not been discussed openly.

--- The Serbs also set up a system of human observers, who would report on sightings of bombers entering Serbia, and track their progress.

--- The spies and observers enabled Zoltan to keep his radars on for a minimal amount of time. This made it difficult for the American SEAD (Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses) to use their HARM missiles (that homed in on radar transmissions.) Zoltan never lost a radar to a HARM missile.

--- Zoltan used the human spotters and brief use of radar, with short range shots at American bombers. The SA-3 was guided from the ground, so you had to use surprise to get an accurate shot in before the target used jamming and evasive maneuvers to make the missile miss. The F-117 he shot down was only 13 kilometers away.

Zoltan got some help from his enemies. The NATO commanders often sent their bombers in along the same routes, and didn’t make a big effort to find out if hotshots like Zoltan were down there, and do something about it. Never underestimate your enemy.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20051121.aspx

[Armenian]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

From what I understand, and my LOMAC days,

That's cute.

The American jets had (and might still have) superior radar and other tactical avionics and more autonomous missiles, namely American mid and long range air-to-air missiles are active radar homing...

During the time of the Cold War, Soviet weaponry was primarily made for mass production and mass export, their strategic approach was quantity rather than quality. As a result, Soviet weaponry were made low cost, simple to use and very rugged. This does not mean, however, that the Soviet Union did not have the 'technological' capabilities to produce state of the art cutting edge weaponry, they just placed emphasis upon mass production of armaments. As a matter of fact, most of the technology breakthroughs in weaponry were made by the Soviets. The West, on the other hand, emphasized quality over quantity because they knew that they would never be able to compete with the Soviet Union's mass produced weapons.

Then, for a significant period of time between the late 80s and the late 90s, as political upheaval was transforming the Soviet Union, the West assumed a clear advantage in the field of military technology. The same period saw an economic boom as well as the electronic revolution within the West transformed the world. However, today things are clearly changing. The Russian Federation is seeing a massive boom in its domestic output as well as rapid growth in its technology sectors and this boom is being transfered to Russia's military industry. This boom is also being effected positively by Russia's close relations with China and India.

There is no technical sector today that the Russians have a clear disadvantage in, there are a few where they clearly still maintain an advantage, namely missile technology.

The moral of this story is - stop taking gaming sites seriously.

[skhara]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Where did karo post that? It would be cool to see Russia vs America in air combat. That hasn't happened since the Korean war when the American F-86 went toe to toe with the Soviet Mig-15. To bad Soviets trusted a bunch of chinamen with that state of the art weapon.