The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[Merv]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Russia has to take a stand now. It's now or never. They weren't able to do this on Kosovo because they were weak and logistically it was impossible due to the distance. In this case, it's right on their doorstep, Russia is much more powerful and NATO weaker than in 1999, and Russia has to put a stop to Western predation on her territory and her interests.

Seeing what happened today, I am sad to think of the lives lost - Ossetian, Russian, or Georgian - but I think this will turn out to be one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, miscalculation/mistake the West made in a very long time. Russia may choose to essentially annex S. Ossetia and Abkazia, or even invade all of Georgia, depose Saakashvili, and pacify Georgia once and for all. Should Russia take control of Georgia, Armenia and Iran will be in a substantially better position, and the latter is something the West does not look upon with a friendly eye.

[aray]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Very well spoken Merv. I also think that Russia should go all the way this time. Otherwise nothing will change. I am not aware of any pro-Russian party in Georgia. Even if Saak get thrown by his own, there will be other one just like him. Entire Georgia should be annexed and new government formed by Moscow. And let the West bark all they want. It’s bear’s den step, and he has all the rights keep it calm.

Russia has to take a stand now. It's now or never. They weren't able to do this on Kosovo because they were weak and logistically it was impossible due to the distance. In this case, it's right on their doorstep, Russia is much more powerful and NATO weaker than in 1999, and Russia has to put a stop to Western predation on her territory and her interests.

Seeing what happened today, I am sad to think of the lives lost - Ossetian, Russian, or Georgian - but I think this will turn out to be one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, miscalculation/mistake the West made in a very long time. Russia may choose to essentially annex S. Ossetia and Abkazia, or even invade all of Georgia, depose Saakashvili, and pacify Georgia once and for all. Should Russia take control of Georgia, Armenia and Iran will be in a substantially better position, and the latter is something the West does not look upon with a friendly eye.

[jgk3]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Annexing all of Georgia? Don't you think that would send the diplomatic relations between the west and Russia spiraling out of control? Or would it cause a split within the west between those nations hellbent on punishing Russia, and those more interested in keeping up economic ties with it and downplaying the fact that it just invaded and annexed an entire country with Western orientation?

[aray]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

That’s the point. Let the West know who’s the daddy in the region. Russia has been continuously ignored in past 15 years. It’s time to send the message.
Annexing all of Georgia may be wishful thinking on my part, but at the same time, I dont think unfinished job will change a thing.

[RSNATION]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

That’s the point. Let the West know who’s the daddy in the region. Russia has been continuously ignored in past 15 years. It’s time to send the message.
Annexing all of Georgia may be wishful thinking on my part, but at the same time, I dont think unfinished job will change a thing.

You'll like this one:

http://www.russiablog.org/2008/08/predictably_in_the_wake_of.php

[RSNATION]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/09/georgia.russia1

[Merv]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Russia must be very careful now. For a long time they have been careful about the image of international legality. With the precendents the US set in 1999 and 2003, both territorial integrity and multilaterality/UN were thrown out the window. Now it's might makes right. It would be very wise for Russia to sieze all of Georgia and establish a friendly regime there, thus breaking the NATO-Turanic efforts to make a corridor from the Caspian to Europe.

However, if Russia wants to take Georgia, they will have to figure out a way to do it with minimal loss of life of the Georgian population. Any death is tragic, but from a standpoint of political pragmatism, the Russians must frame this as an attack on Saakashvili and not the Georgian people and therefore utmost care must be taken to minimize incidents like the killing of civilians in Gori - for the latter merely consolidates Saakashvili's position amongst Georgians.

As for Abkhazia and S. Ossetia, they ought to be annexed to Russia outright - by referendum, the "democratic" way the West likes to dismember countries.

[RSNATION]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Russia must be very careful now. For a long time they have been careful about the image of international legality. With the precendents the US set in 1999 and 2003, both territorial integrity and multilaterality/UN were thrown out the window. Now it's might makes right. It would be very wise for Russia to sieze all of Georgia and establish a friendly regime there, thus breaking the NATO-Turanic efforts to make a corridor from the Caspian to Europe.

However, if Russia wants to take Georgia, they will have to figure out a way to do it with minimal loss of life of the Georgian population. Any death is tragic, but from a standpoint of political pragmatism, the Russians must frame this as an attack on Saakashvili and not the Georgian people and therefore utmost care must be taken to minimize incidents like the killing of civilians in Gori - for the latter merely consolidates Saakashvili's position amongst Georgians.

As for Abkhazia and S. Ossetia, they ought to be annexed to Russia outright - by referendum, the "democratic" way the West likes to dismember countries.

Merv is right. After his fiasco, there will be more and more Georgians who will want the overthrow of Saakashvili even if they are angry at Russia for the time being. They will relaize that they need a leader and a gov't that advocates friendly relations with Russia and a clean slate.

In the meantime, Russia should continue to destroy Georgia's infrastructure {pipelines, cell-towers, electricity grid, railroads, highways, airports, etc} while trying to avoid hitting civilians. They should continue pounding Georgian military facilities near and behind the frontlines as they have air superiority; it seems to be working so far as it will neutralize the Georgian military capability and destroy their morale.

And yes, Abkhazia and Ossetia will be granted freedom or attachment to Russia, whichever they choose.

[Azad]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

What was that down syndrome saakashvili thinking?
Looks like Russia is headed to Tiblisi.

Gori in pictures.

[Angessa]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

My father left last night with others to fight. I know of many more people coming from all over. I already know there was 11 thousand of Kuban cossacks there from already fighting. This may even blow out in a entire conflict in the greater Caucasus.