Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Anatolia]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armanen,

I think it's time for ignore mode. After all, this "Anatolia" () is just another 'dime-a-dozen' Turk who comes here asking for a 'discussion' just so he can spout the tired Turkish talking points (lies) concerning Armenian-Turkish relations.

When he leaves, another transparent Turk will come along to replace them. These people actually think their clever.

It's a pity! You think, your intellectual level is not enough to answer my points and now you are asking support from “the man who knows everything”. I’m waiting his famous text regarding good Turks, bad Turks. I think he could not pass over that stage.
It is obvious that you deeply afraid of any opening in Turkish – Armenian relation as you will loose your position. But I’m sure that majority of the Armenians are looking to World from a much broader and realistic perspective than you. There is no difference between you and the grey wolfs in Turkey. I think the best solution will be putting you and them in to same place. You can eat each other much easier.

[ara87]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

i think we should concentrate on open borders and other vital matters over genocide recognition. The world knows what happened, even if it's not "official" or if another word for genocide used like annihilation, the only people denying it are the Turks and Azeri's. I think Armenia should use it as a bargaining chip though, we drop recognition and in return turkey gives or does something for us. (I know many of you think this isn't possible b/c of land reparations, but turkey, as well as the world is never going to give us that land) As for letting the historians decide, an overwhelming majority have and agree with Armenia.


The U.S. technically already recognizes it.


George W Bush, April 24, 2004.

"On this day, we pause in remembrance of one of the most horrible tragedies of the 20th century, the annihilation of as many as 1.5 million Armenians through forced exile and murder at the end of the Ottoman Empire. This terrible event remains a source of pain for people in Armenia and Turkey and for all those who believe in freedom, tolerance, and the dignity of every human life. I join with my fellow Americans and the Armenian community in the United States and around the world in mourning this loss of life...."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040424-1.html

__________________

[Anatolia]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

[QUOTE=serüven;206844]Ok guys, why don't you try to calm down?

@Anatolia,

However, I couldn't understand how you have figured out the number of Armenian women working in Turkey. I have never heard about housekeepers coming from Armenia! and one can easily infer from what you wrote that you are mentioning illegal prostitutes which is indecent to mention in such a forum.

Seruven,

I don't know where you are living but most probably not in Turkey. I'm in Istanbul and if you are a working family with kids, you have to find someone to take care of them and house. Ladies from Bulgaria, Moldavia, Turkic states and Armenia are coming to work in Turkey. Please read the link from a Dutch newspaper. I did not understand how you linked "working" with prostitution!!!

http://mvdg.wordpress.com/2007/10/16/70000-illegal-armenians-living-and-working-in-turkey/

[seruven]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I don't know where you are living but most probably not in Turkey. I'm in Istanbul and if you are a working family with kids, you have to find someone to take care of them and house.

I live in Ankara. Although I know many people from İstanbul, I don't know any family with kids. Though you may be right, I hadn't heard about Armenian women working in Turkey.

[garod]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armenian traders in Istanbul


source :http://www.newneighbors.am/news.php?...h=12&year=2006

If on a Wednesday your stroll takes you to Kumkapi, you will see that several Armenian citizens set up their benches and are trying to trade. The posters in the windows will catch your attention. Most of some 40,000 Armenian citizens who came with a tourist visa live in this part of the city. There is no argument of genocide or other political subjects among them. They are only trying to earn money and send little of that to their families. Even if they arrive in hesitation and fear, sometime later they understand that Turks are not waiting for them with saws in hand to cut them. When speaking, they did not hide their names. Nonetheless, we are not disclosing names in this article.

The district open market set at Kumkapi, since a long time has been adorned with merchandise benches opened by immigrants from Armenia. Most of them are from Erivan, the capital. Generally they are aged over 50 years. They are trying to sell the few goods they brought from Armenia, cheap beads, suchuk, coniac, smoked fish, caviar… Their purpose is to send some money to their children, grand children. Turks and Kurds are the old customers, but the important buyers are again Armenians from Armenia.

Those doing well in their business, opened small shops near to the market place. There are signs in Armenian and Turkish on their doors. We stroll the market place with Alin Ozinian, who is making her doctorate degree study in Erivan and knows Eastern Armenian dialect well.

At the beginning they get disturbed by the camera of Fatih, but later they invite us to their shops and their market stands, welcoming us. We really don't know if their number reached 40.000 as the Foreign Minister Gul said, but is apparent that they live in hard conditions in Istanbul.

There is no bad nation - there is bad men

First we are guests to a typical house of Kumkapi, where the market is set. A.L. is a construction engineer born in Gumru in 1946. After the break-up of the Soviet Union he quits his profession and comes to Turkey. He said, "It was year 1997, I was living in the house of relatives; in the corner there was a stove. Our nation does not know what stove is; we are used to central heating. I felt strange and decided immediately; I should have done something to save myself out of this situation. I went to the bus station, 30 Dollars was enough to come to Turkey; I paid it and came here". A.L.. lived for 17 days on streets and after met an acquaintance in a coffee house.

With his help, first starts to work in the factory of a Turkish Armenian, and later does any job he can find. He gets a chance and brings his wife as well. While Alin was doing the interpretation, all the sudden he starts to talk in his broken Turkish. He says that his grandparents were immigrants from Eastern Anatolia and says 'we already talked Turkish at home".

He shows the photos of their grand children on the wall and says "We are here for them". His wife O.L. was setting a feast table in their poverty stricken house addressing us "canim" (my life). She says that she went to house cleaning jobs, shows the old chairs in the sitting rooms and says: "The woman I worked for gave these to me. They give us gifts on their and our sacred holidays and ask if we are short of anything. Sometimes, the Turks here treat us better tan the local Armenians. I am greatly thankful, they don't make me feel a stranger. Anyhow, you do not have a bad nation, you have bad men."

My daughter was sick, I came but she died

We had seen A.N. born in Erivan in 1956 strolling the market. She was selling on her little bench, rice, suchuk, smoked fish, and some type of cream called "titvaser". Her little shop behind drew our attention.

First she was reluctant to talk, and then she explained: "I came to Istanbul in 2000, I sold my house and made it capital. I had to come because my daughter was very sick. I worked hard, did any job I could find. I swept floors in restaurants, I washed dishes. Later I opened a shop. Not all of the merchandise belongs to me. I sell whatever they bring for sale." And was she having any problems with Turks? She said "I did not live any problems. They don't treat us badly. But of course my heart wants that I work in my home country. If I can save some money, I will go back and buy a house. Since my daughter is dead, nothing is important now, but life goes on". When leaving the tiny store, she tries to give Alin a box of Armenian candy. Alin does not take it for she knows that what she calls "capital" is a little candy and some smoked fish.

Retired teacher from Erivan A.S.
They told us to say that we are NOT from Armenia

I am 62 years old, I taught 33 years, and we came to Turkey in 1992. We were in trading business with my wife. I was one of the three traders doing great business on glassware in Armenia. The answer to the question "Why Turkey" is very simple. This is the nearest and cheapest country for those who want to work. It is easy to get a visa at the border, just pay 10 Dollars. When we were coming to Turkey, they had told us to introduce ourselves as Georgians. For two years we kept that advice. Later we saw that Turks had no grudge against Armenians, everyone minds his business. When trading, I had no problem at all with other persons in business. Those who come from Armenia, work in the houses of local Armenians.

Some treat them as guest, but on the other hand there are some that don't like Armenians and would not give a job in their house. They would say, "they are rude, covetous, don't know how to dress". Local Armenians, look down upon those coming from Armenia and mistreat them. I am sorry for that because it does not reflect our country totally. From time to time, I am faced with such cases that I am ashamed to say that I am from Armenia. There are some that I would not take into my house. I never had any problems with local Armenians or Turks.

Especially, I never had a bad treatment, insult, or annoyance from Turks. Previously I hesitated to say that I was Armenian, but now I am at ease.

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

So what's your point garod? Is it that Turks "dont' treat Armenians badly" when they come to cosmopolitan cities in Turkey to work menial jobs? What sweethearts they are!

Man, you must have low expectations of Turks (as do I, btw). I guess as long as Turks don't overtly harass Armenians (or worse - shoot them in the street like they did to Hrant Dink), they are considered "good".

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

So what's your point garod? Is it that Turks "dont' treat Armenians badly" when they come to cosmopolitan cities in Turkey to work menial jobs? What sweethearts they are! Man, you must have low expectations of Turks (as do I, btw). I guess as long as Turks don't overtly harass Armenians (or worse - shoot them in the street like they did to Hrant Dink), they are considered "good".

Just in case you did not know, this garod character is a Turk not an Armenian and should be banned from here for using as deceitful name.

[Federation]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Just in case you did not know, this garod character is a Turk not an Armenian and should be banned from here for using as deceitful name.

Karoti Hishatakin Axpers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLDf9KlhFO0

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Just in case you did not know, this garod character is a Turk not an Armenian and should be banned from here for using as deceitful name.

I knew from his first post that he was a Turk because he sounds exactly like the rest of them (anotolia, seurven, etc.) who come here to trumpet their cheap propaganda under the guise of "dialogue".

...like I said, they're a dime a dozen...no, let me rephrase: WORTHLESS.

[Anatolia]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

So what's your point garod? Is it that Turks "dont' treat Armenians badly" when they come to cosmopolitan cities in Turkey to work menial jobs? What sweethearts they are!

Man, you must have low expectations of Turks (as do I, btw). I guess as long as Turks don't overtly harass Armenians (or worse - shoot them in the street like they did to Hrant Dink), they are considered "good".

Of course we do not expect from you to understand what's going on in this part of the world, considering that you priorities are different as you already lost 1/3 of your portfolio in the recent crisis in your home country, U.S.
Let’s come to the topic of assassination of Hrant Dink. Hrant was a real Armenian with a big heart. Ultra-nationalist gangs played their dirty game. But meantime there is no doubt that ultra-nationalist Armenian groups (i.e. ASALA) would be happy to see someone like me dead.
All your efforts will not enough to keep these two nations get closer and closer. It is better for you to concentrate to your own problems in your financial markets. Did you make your mortgage payment?