Armenian-Turkish Relations

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Of course we do not expect from you to understand what's going on in this part of the world, considering that you priorities are different as you already lost 1/3 of your portfolio in the recent crisis in your home country, U.S.
Let’s come to the topic of assassination of Hrant Dink. Hrant was a real Armenian with a big heart. Ultra-nationalist gangs played their dirty game. But meantime there is no doubt that ultra-nationalist Armenian groups (i.e. ASALA) would be happy to see someone like me dead.
All your efforts will not enough to keep these two nations get closer and closer. It is better for you to concentrate to your own problems in your financial markets. Did you make your mortgage payment?

Don't worry about me...even with my porfolio 1/3 down, I'm sure I can still easily afford to buy package and sell the likes of you.

...that reminds me, I need to send a donation to the ANCA. Thanks Anotolia, I almost forgot.

[Anatolia]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Don't worry about me...even with my porfolio 1/3 down, I'm sure I can still easily afford to buy package and sell the likes of you.

...that reminds me, I need to send a donation to the ANCA. Thanks Anotolia, I almost forgot.

Be sure that you will be the last person on Earth I will worry about. You got my point. Please continue to spend your money in your home country. We have a different life and priorities in this part of the world. By the way, did you ever been in Armenia? I'm planning to go to Yerevan next summer. If you like, please joint to me.

[numerodos]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Things are not that simple crusader. You could easily achieve as much as your recent posts did by banging your head against a wall...hell that might even be better who knows? Anatolia you're not helping by taking the bait and turning the thread into an immature argument. Seruven seems like a rational and well meaning person, if a little uninformed on the historical context of Armenian and Turkish relations in depth yet you see him as all the other Turks that stumbled across this forum. Seems a little harsh. It's easy to be hateful and ignorant living so far from Turkey and Armenia. That is why those who oppose reconciliation have probably never lived in either country and at this rate never will.

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

As "talks" go on between Armenia and Turkey, the latter again threatens another country over Genocide recognition:

Turkey's Ambassador to Israel Warns of Damaged Ties if Genocide Recognized

TEL AVIV--Recognition of the Armenian Genocide by Knesset will badly damage the Turkish-Israeli partnership, said Namik Tan, Turkey's ambassador to Israel.

He said that Ankara recalled its envoys from U.S. and France when the parliaments of these states voted for recognition of the Armenian Genocide.

Ambassador Tan criticized the Israeli parliamentary initiative to discuss the Armenian Genocide issue. “I support President Shimon Peres who said that the “Armenian tragedy is an issue for historians bit not politicians.” Just fancy a Turkish political figure accusing Israel of genocide of Palestinians,” he said, adding that he hopes Israel will never spoil relations with Turkey.

Earlier, Kadima's Zeev Elkin said that discussion of the Armenian Genocide will not “cause trouble” with Turkey and Azerbaijan. “These countries should understand that Israel can't neglect discussion of an issue that has already been considered by all western parliaments,” he told IzRus portal.

Meanwhile, Tan remarked that “the parliamentarians fell under the influence of the Armenian minority.”

He stressed the importance of developing an Ankara-Baku-Jerusalem strategic alliance to neutralize “the Armenian threat.”

“We want the Azeri oil and gas go to Israel and then to China and Japan through Ashkelon-Eilat pipeline,” he said.

[Anatolia]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Things are not that simple crusader. You could easily achieve as much as your recent posts did by banging your head against a wall...hell that might even be better who knows? Anatolia you're not helping by taking the bait and turning the thread into an immature argument. Seruven seems like a rational and well meaning person, if a little uninformed on the historical context of Armenian and Turkish relations in depth yet you see him as all the other Turks that stumbled across this forum. Seems a little harsh. It's easy to be hateful and ignorant living so far from Turkey and Armenia. That is why those who oppose reconciliation have probably never lived in either country and at this rate never will.

I accept your criticism. The discussion is going to dead lock.

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Things are not that simple crusader. You could easily achieve as much as your recent posts did by banging your head against a wall...hell that might even be better who knows? Anatolia you're not helping by taking the bait and turning the thread into an immature argument. Seruven seems like a rational and well meaning person, if a little uninformed on the historical context of Armenian and Turkish relations in depth yet you see him as all the other Turks that stumbled across this forum. Seems a little harsh. It's easy to be hateful and ignorant living so far from Turkey and Armenia. That is why those who oppose reconciliation have probably never lived in either country and at this rate never will.

Please understand, I have zero interest in achieving anything with you and your ilk. Save your hipocracy for some Armenian stupid enough to believe that a Turk is capable of acting in good faith.

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I accept your criticism. The discussion is going to dead lock.

What discussion? What dead lock? You act as if you actually contributed to this thread.

You Turks are out of your mind.

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Speaking of the ANCA, I received an email the other day updating supporters on the the latest Turkish diplomatic treachery. Here's some of the text:

The stakes have never been higher.

Armenia is reaching out her hand in friendship to Turkey.

In the long shadow of the Genocide, facing a brutal blockade and hateful anti-Armenian policies, Yerevan is taking major risks for peace.

Turkey's response: They're going right for the throat.

Even as I'm writing to you, Ankara's twisting Armenia's good faith into a heartless attack on Armenian Genocide recognition.

It's no secret. Turkey's Foreign Minister is telling anyone who will listen to "mind your own business," because his "talks" with Armenia will kill the Armenian Genocide Resolution.

Turkey wants us to unilaterally disarm, all because its President went to a soccer game. Failing that, they'll try to cut our legs out from under us with false promises, lies and spin.

Either way, this is exactly the time to show our strength, our grit, our rock-solid devotion to truth and justice. And we can only do this with your help.

With Turkey's offensive already under way - and a major new attack coming against whomever will win the Presidency - we need your financial support more than ever.

It seems that Armenia's president is on the same page as the ANCA as the Armenian government is countering the (overplayed) Turkish hand. In short, Armenia has once again been reminded that Turkey can in no way be trusted and they are in turn, finding other ways to secure Armenia's economic future.

[quote]

AS TALKS WITH AZERIS/TURKS FALTER, ARMENIA EXPANDS ACCESS TO GEORGIA/IRAN

The budding relationship between Armenia and Turkey, which started with last month’s "football diplomacy" with much fanfare and high expectations , is facing serious difficulties.

While no one expected a quick resolution of the long-standing issues stemming from the Genocide and its persistent denial by Turkey, few anticipated that the nascent rapprochement would falter so quickly.

After a very friendly and hopeful first meeting between the presidents and foreign ministers of Armenia and Turkey, occasioned by the unprecedented soccer match between their national teams on September 6 in Yerevan, it appears that the Artsakh (Karabagh) conflict is the main reason for the sudden rift.

To begin with, it was strange that the presidents of Armenia and Turkey did not hold a follow-up meeting during their attendance of the U.N. General Assembly sessions in New York in late September. When Pres. Gul was asked by Turkish journalists why no meeting was scheduled with the Armenian President, he first said he was not aware that Pres. Sargsyan was coming to New York and then assured them that they would run into each other during one of many diplomatic receptions. Despite such optimistic talk, the two presidents never meet. They may have been waiting for the outcome of discussions between the foreign ministers of Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkey who met on the last day of their stay in New York.

On September 28, two days after Pres. Sargsyan left New Yor k, he told reporters that there were "no concrete results yet" from the foreign ministers’ meeting and that he had not expected much from their encounter.

On the same day, Pres. Gul confirmed that there had not been any significant movement to merit the lifting of the blockade of Armenia. Taking a tough stand , he told a Turkish group that "no talks on border opening are possible before Armenia’s liberation of Azerbaijani territories," according to the AzeriTaj news agency. Thus, Pres. Gul was reverting to Turkey’s previous preconditions that had been long rejected by the Armenian side. A senior aide to Azerbaijan’s president, in his turn, confirmed this week that several serious issues remain unresolved on the Artsakh issue.

Ankara and Baku assumed that since the Georgian-Russian conflict had temporarily deprived Armenia of the opportunity to import more than 70% of its vital supplies from Georgia’s Black Sea ports, this was the ideal time to force Yerevan into making serious concessions on the Genocide issue and the Artsakh conflict.

Whether it was coincidence or not, several major initiatives announced by Pres. Sargsyan last week had the effect of countering the hard-line taken by Ankara and Baku in their recent negotiations with Armenia, and dispelling the false impression that Yerevan is desperately seeking to reopen the border with Turkey at any cost.

Pres. Sargsyan announced during his last week’s visit to Tbilisi that he had reached an agreement with Pres. Saakashvili to jointly build a modern highway that would considerably shorten the transport time between the Georgian Port of Batumi and Yerevan.

In a nationally televised speech delivered for the first time in the Armenian Parliament -- akin to the State of the Union address by American presidents before the U.S. Congress -- Pres. Sargsyan announced that a new railway would be constructed to link Iran with Armenia, to facilitate and expand trade between the two countries. He also said that Armenia would build a new nuclear power plant to ensure that the country remains energy self-sufficient when its aging plant is shut down. Finally, he stated that a Pan-Armenian Bank and an investment fund would be established in Yerevan to finance these projects. He said that these "large and daring initiatives" would solve Armenia’s important strategic and economic problems.

Along with these major programs, Armenia just formed a new Diaspora Ministry to streamline and strengthen its relations with millions of Armenians living abroad. On September 24, during a major banquet in New York, Pres. Sargsyan gave the 700 Armenian guests an uplifting message of unity, urging them to join forces for the betterment of Armenia and the Diaspora. He also thanked all those assisting in the resolution of the Artsakh conflict, "the condemnation of the Armenian Genocide, and the restoration of historical justice."

These new initiatives are bound to improve Armenia’s bargaining hand and help negotiate with Turkey and Azerbaijan from a position of strength. The expansion of Armenia’s alternate land routes through Georgia and Iran would considerably diminish the utility of opening the border with Turkey and circumvent more effectively the blockades imposed by Ankara and Baku.

While Armenian officials do want to improve relations with all of their neighbors, they are not so desperate as to make unacceptable concessions on the Genocide and Artsakh issues.

By Harut Sassounian, Publisher, The California Courier

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Anatolia, it seems you mean well, but either intentionally or unintentionally, your conclusions are very skewed:

Let’s come to the topic of assassination of Hrant Dink. Hrant was a real Armenian with a big heart. Ultra-nationalist gangs played their dirty game. But meantime there is no doubt that ultra-nationalist Armenian groups (i.e. ASALA) would be happy to see someone like me dead.

ASALA hasn't existed since 1985. Don't use them as some kind of boogey-man. You cannot compare Armenian "extremism" to Turkish extremism: genocide of half our nation, theft of countless businesses and personal properties, destruction of virtually all our cultural monuments, denial of genocide for 100 years by government propaganda and lobbyists, blockading Armenia into a stage of virtual siege and backing Azerbaijan's militarily while they are yelling that 'Yerevan belongs to Azerbaijan'.

But no, its Armenians who are extremists for resisting this type of immense pressure on our national existance. Armenians are supposed to reach out and caress Turkey's leg and beg them not to destroy us...

I don't understand how reconciliation between Turkey and Armenia will be possible without giving up these hostile attitudes.

Yes, if Turkey denies its crimes while continually threatening our national existence (which one day if it succeeds, it will also deny), reconciliation is not possible.

If Armanen is waiting an answer to his question, yes Ottoman rulers during the WWI systematically relocated Armenian population as they perceived a threat from Armenian rebels who were seeking independence and on this way they were supporting Russian Army. But there is no doubt that the decision taken by Enver, Talat and his gang was bull xxxx and the result was a disaster. Thousands and thousands of innocent people, women, children and elders lost their lives on the way due to hunger, diseases and attacks of bloody gangs. It is a shame and I apologize from all Armenian friends who lost their ancestors in this tragedy.

But meantime I believe that you cannot solve any problem with hate. Hate will call hate. Asking respect and excuse is completely different than asking land!

Okay, let me take your house, steal all your belongings, rape the women in your family and kill everyone that you know, while destroying your entire culture and reverting Turkey into the size of Lebanon, which I will continue to blockade and threaten. I will also deny my crimes until you are an old man, laying on your deathbed, and I will never admit them. But don't hate me, and don't ask for your land back. Now do you know why Armanen will not respond to this ridiculous suggestion? Nothing will be solved unless the Turkish state addresses these issues, and if they refuse, we have no reason to caress Turkey's leg and beg for her friendship. This is different from hate. Just because individual Armenians choose to hate Turks, it has nothing to do with historical and geo-political reality.

Personally, I’m ready to welcome any Armenian who wants to return Anatolia. I’ll be happy to see multi-culture. I’ll be happy to share the same life and same destiny.

Thats great. Unfortunately, your government has practiced the complete opposite ideology for over 100 years, and many people have suffered because of it. Of course, Turks have not suffered as a result, so I don't expect you to be familiar with our perspective, which is probably why your conclusions about Armenians are completely inaccurate.

[ara87]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Just in case you did not know, this garod character is a Turk not an Armenian and should be banned from here for using as deceitful name.

wow, and you know your name is deceitful, b/c it's not your name, and who knows if your armenian? and Crusader1492 is not a crusader nor from 1492, the same goes with other users so i guess, by your logic we should all be banned