Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Alexandros]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations




Opening of Armenian-Turkish border to promote Armenia’s economic development

01.10.2009 18:06 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Analyzing the economic potentials of Armenia and Turkey, Dashnak MP Artsvik Minasyan introduced ARFD bureau's document enumerating all the risks that may be caused by Armenian-Turkish Protocols. “We have revealed 53 problems demanding urgent solution,” Minasyan told a news conference in Yerevan.

Head of Parliamentary Committee on Economic Issues Vardan Ayvazyan disagreed with him arguing that in case of border opening Armenia’s export will increase by 38% and GDP will record a 3% growth.

“Border opening will give us chance to develop Armenia’s economy,” he noted.

Link

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Opening of Armenian-Turkish border to promote Armenia’s economic development

01.10.2009 18:06 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Analyzing the economic potentials of Armenia and Turkey, Dashnak MP Artsvik Minasyan introduced ARFD bureau's document enumerating all the risks that may be caused by Armenian-Turkish Protocols. “We have revealed 53 problems demanding urgent solution,” Minasyan told a news conference in Yerevan.

Head of Parliamentary Committee on Economic Issues Vardan Ayvazyan disagreed with him arguing that in case of border opening Armenia’s export will increase by 38% and GDP will record a 3% growth.

“Border opening will give us chance to develop Armenia’s economy,” he noted.

Link

I see the economic prophets have invaded Armenia as well.

[Army]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Map distributed to Istanbul schools redraws borders of Turkey

Wednesday, September 30, 2009

Abbas Güçlü

ISTANBUL - Milliyet

A CD prepared by Istanbul’s provincial education directorate has redrawn the map of Turkey to include parts of northern Iraq.

The mistake shocked even the directorate itself and placed education officials in an awkward situation as it comes just after Education Ministry school books got the dates of some national days wrong.

The ministry on Wednesday ordered that the CDs be taken back from schools and parents who had received them, it was reported.

A CD was distributed to schools as part of the parent education project and on it the map of Turkey included the cities of Mosul and Kirkuk in northern Iraq as being within Turkey’s borders. It also shows the island of Cyprus and Armenia as part of Turkey. Parts of Georgia and Bulgaria have also been depicted as within Turkey’s borders.

The project was prepared during the tenure of former Istanbul education director, Ata Özer, and the discrepancies have shocked current director Muammer Yıldız.

The map mistake compounds the embarrassment from schoolbooks prepared by the Education Ministry and distributed free of charge to students also have some very glaring errors. The occasion of Victory Day on Aug. 30 is omitted and an incorrect date is cited for Children and National Sovereignty Day, celebrated on April 23. The day has been marked as April 29 in the books.

“Such a map is unacceptable. It is a big mistake that can create unnecessary debate. I am very sad,” said Yıldız, who initiated an inquiry into the matter.

Yıldız said the information was compiled from various sources but that no one noticed the discrepancies until after it was sent to all Istanbul schools was even more shocking.

“It can’t be used as an excuse that the map escaped the attention of our people working on the project. I wish it hadn’t happened. But someone from among us should have spotted it and warned us,” said Yıldız.

Istanbul was chosen as the pilot province to rate the effectiveness of the project. The aim is to educate parents on various issues, ranging from first aid to how to deal with children, prior to the start of the school term. It was carried out during the week before schools started alongside the “getting used to school” program for children about to begin their education. Around 230,000 children began their first year of primary school in the province of Istanbul this year.

The objective was to have an orientation week for all of these children and their parents.

Link

Haha I've seen this map some years ago on some Turkish-Kurdish Facebook groups. It was a reply to some Kurdistan maps with the title "Thats the map". Probably created by a web user. So its in CDs now, lol.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Looking at Armenian-Turkish Relations - Without the Paranoia, Obsessions or the Hysteria

The so-called "protocols" have been discussed at length. Many approaches, be it ideological, political, ethical or spiritual, have been taken into full account. Thus far, the picture painted by many in the diaspora looks utterly bleak bordering on apocalyptic. One thing, however, that I have yet to see seriously scrutinized is the crucially important factor of geopolitics, or the thing we call realpolitik. The links provided below are regarding some interesting geopolitical and economic developments occurring, somewhat under the radar, within the Caucasus. The information that I am providing you here is crucial for better understanding what is occurring in the Caucasus today. Thus, they definitely deserve a serious look. I urge you all to make some time and read them. But before that, I have a few comments to make...

Basing my opinion on what I have been observing in regional developments for the past several years, it is quite obvious that there are serious plans for the greater Caucasus region, plans in which Armenia may take center stage. The mastermind of this new agenda is Vladimir Putin's Moscow. And one of the most obvious manifestations of this agenda has been the warming of relations between Turkey and Armenia; of course under the watchful eyes of the Kremlin.

Don't believe shallow talk concerning the rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia being a Western agenda. It is far from it. The West is currently powerless in the Caucasus. Thus, in a sense, it is forced to go along with the political/economic process set in motion by Moscow. Let's remember that the warming of relations between Ankara and Yerevan was started in Moscow just before the Russian-Georgian war. This process then reached a climax when Turkey's Gul visited Armenia in the immediate aftermath of Russia's war against Georgia - a war that saw the decisive defeat of the American-European-Western-Turkish-Israeli backed regime in Tbilisi. According to international political analysts, Georgia's defeat more-or-less eliminated Western and Turkish (and by extension, Israeli) interests from within the Caucasus region.

For those who are unfamiliar with the geopolitics of the region, a simple explanation - For the past twenty years or so the West, in-tandem with Turkey and Israel, has been attempting to wrestle the strategic region of the Caucasus away from Russian control. The bloody Islamic insurgency in Chechnya and the arming of Georgia had been a part of the greater anti-Russian agenda of the West. However, we Armenians need to be mindful of the fact that without a Russian presence in the Caucasus the entire region in question will no doubt turn into a Turkic/Islamic cesspool and a playground for the CIA, MI6 and the Mossad. Needless to say, Armenia cannot live as a state in the Caucasus without an effective Russian presence there.

With the Caucasus now effectively in their hands, and at their mercy, Moscow seems to be embarked on long term plan to essentially remake the Caucasus in its image. And, for better or for worst, Moscow has decided that it will use its regional strategic partner, Armenia, as its staging-ground for deeper relations with regional nations. Simply put, Armenia is expected to project Russian power in the south Caucasus and Asia Minor. And due to Europe's severe dependency on Central Asian gas and oil (that which Moscow now fully controls) and the economic crisis that currently engulfs them, the West is more-or-less going along with Moscow's plans. In other words, they can't stop it so they are putting a happy face on it and hoping to reap some benefits from it.

Nonetheless, before we figuratively speaking hang our nation's leadership for some vague wordage used on some meaningless piece of paper, let's all realize that a tiny, impoverished nation surrounded by enemies in the Caucasus has very limited leverage on an international negotiation table. We must realize that Armenia is not, nor can it be under its current geopolitical circumstances, a truly an independent state. What we need to be grateful about, however, is the simple fact that we as a nation serve the strategic interests of a regional superpower like Russia. And what we can take pride in is the simple fact that as a result of this strategic relationship with Moscow Armenia's (as well as Artsakh's) borders have never been stronger.

So, don't worry, even if our leadership were all a bunch of traitors and they all wanted to sell Armenia to the Turks, Russians would allowed it, nor would Iranians for that matter. Let's not forget what happened to Vazgen Sargsyan and Garen Demirjyan when they got too close to the West back in 1999... Therefore, don't kid yourselves, if the Kremlin thought that the Caucasus, or Armenia, would be penetrated by Turks as a result of "open borders" with Armenia there would be no Turkish-Armenian relations to speak of today.

I personally do not believe that our leadership in Yerevan is stupid, in that they do not understand politics, nor do I believe that they treasonous, in that they have been bought by Turks. Our leadership in Yerevan is forced to go along with the greater agenda that has been placed on the table as they try to extract some benefit from it. Let us also take into serious consideration the realization that Armenia is stagnating politically and economically due to its isolation and poverty. If nothing is done about this predicament, in a generation or two the landlocked and resource-less country may forever sink into a Third World oblivion. Our leadership needs to do anything and everything, within proper boundaries of course, to ensure Armenia's prosperity and longevity.

With some concerns and reservations I remain hopeful that something good will come out of the current political process. I am looking at what's occurring in Armenian-Turkish relations objectively and rationally, without the paranoia, hysteria or obsessions expressed by many in our diaspora. And for Armenia's sake, I hope you prophets of doom are wrong and I am right. In final analysis, we in the diaspora, as long as we choose to remain in the diaspora, have no right to 'demand' anything from officials in Armenia because it is the natives of Armenia that will have to live with the consequences of politics - not us. Armenia cannot be the diaspora's test tube nor can it be held hostage to its ideological whims.

I ask you again to read the following material to better understand what is happening in the Caucasus today.

Armenian

The Caucasus: Small War, Big Damage: http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/t...6.php?CID=1176

That Was No Small War in Georgia — It Was the Beginning of the End of the American Empire: http://donvandergriff.wordpress.com/...erican-empire/

Caucasus Is Real Citadel of Russian Power: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinio...le/383525.html

A Northern Neighbor Growls, and Azerbaijan Reassesses Its Options: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/23/wo...i.html?_r=1&em

RUSSIA: MOSCOW MULLS CONSTRUCTION OF ARMENIA-IRAN RAILWAY LINK:

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/news/eav093009b.shtml

ARMENIA: RAILWAY PREPARES TO GO TO TURKEY: http://www.eurasianet.org/department...v092909c.shtml

Seven-thousand kilometer project is awaiting parliamentary approval: http://www.sabahenglish.com/news/8386.html

Turkish press: EU to involve Armenia in Nabucco project at Georgia’s expense: http://news.am/en/news/3805.html

Asian Bank To Fund Road Projects In Armenia, Georgia: http://www.azatutyun.am/content/article/1839958.html

Alexey Miller: Iran, Turkey to do gas swaps through Armenia: http://news.am/en/news/3883.html

Gasprom considers possible construction of oil refinery in Armenia: http://www.arka.am/eng/energy/2009/06/23/15426.html

Russia signs deal to build Turkey's first nuclear power plant: http://en.rian.ru/business/20090806/155747143.html

Azerbaijan: The Stark New Energy Landscape: http://www.turkishforum.com.tr/en/co...rgy-landscape/

YEVSEYEV: TURKISH-ARMENIAN DIALOGUE TOWARDS RUSSIAN INTERESTS:

http://www.historyoftruth.com/news/yevseyev-turkish-armenian-dialogue-towards-russian-interests-3978.html

Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Is Possible – and Necessary: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=10083

Turkey in tight spot between Russia and NATO: http://www.reuters.com/article/reute...BrandChannel=0

Turkey Plays to Russia in Caucasus: http://www.kommersant.com/p1022936/r...rkey_Caucasus/

[Army]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

In final analysis, we in the diaspora, as long as we choose to remain in the diaspora, have no right to 'demand' anything from officials in Armenia because it is the natives of Armenia that will have to live with the consequences of politics - not us. Armenia cannot be the diaspora's test tube nor can it be held hostage to its ideological whims.

Well said.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

In final analysis, we in the diaspora, as long as we choose to remain in the diaspora, have no right to 'demand' anything from officials in Armenia because it is the natives of Armenia that will have to live with the consequences of politics - not us. Armenia cannot be the diaspora's test tube nor can it be held hostage to its ideological whims.

Armenian

How do the J'ews do it so well? Their writers and reporters are in line with their politicians and agendas.

Let us also take into serious consideration the realization that Armenia is stagnating politically and economically due to its isolation and poverty. If nothing is done about this predicament, in a generation or two the landlocked and resource-less country may forever sink into a Third World oblivion. Our leadership needs to do anything and everything, within proper boundaries of course, to ensure Armenia's prosperity and longevity.

We know very well that poverty is a result of western culture and wealth comes from planning and saving for the future. Ghetto culture leads to ghetto life.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

How do the J'ews do it so well? Their writers and reporters are in line with their politicians and agendas.

I didn't write the article but I agree with it.

No two situations are alike, but with the joos they have established themselves strongly in the u.s. and until 1948 they didn't have a homeland nor live on their homeland (for the most part). One can argue that today's joos are not very closely related to the Hebrews that got kicked out of Palestine in the 1st century AD. Armenians on the other hand have lived on their ancestrial lands for over 4000 years, our Diaspora is more recent than the jooish one.

Also, one has to ask. Does official tel aviv take orders from the jooish diaspora or is it the other way round? Maybe a mix of the two?

[Alexandros]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armenia ruling coalition backs Turkey ties

Friday, October 2, 2009

YEREVAN – Agence France-Presse

The three parties in Armenia's ruling coalition, which holds a majority in the country's parliament, said Friday they would support establishing ties with Turkey after decades of hostility.

"The Armenian state has shown courage ... regarding the future of our country and improving ties between the two countries," the Republican, Prosperous Armenia and Rule of Law parties said in a joint statement.

"We welcome such a policy and urge all citizens of Armenia, all political and social organizations, as well as all Armenians around the world, to create the necessary conditions for this process to be successfully carried out."

Link

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I didn't write the article but I agree with it.

No two situations are alike, but with the joos they have established themselves strongly in the u.s. and until 1948 they didn't have a homeland nor live on their homeland (for the most part). One can argue that today's joos are not very closely related to the Hebrews that got kicked out of Palestine in the 1st century AD. Armenians on the other hand have lived on their ancestrial lands for over 4000 years, our Diaspora is more recent than the jooish one.

Also, one has to ask. Does official tel aviv take orders from the jooish diaspora or is it the other way round? Maybe a mix of the two?

Welcome back to the forum

Armenians need to do to Russia what the Jews have done to the USA. We have had a presence in Russia for at least two centuries yet we have failed whereas the Jews have not. Their diaspora, no matter where, is in unity and Israel once had ALL their borders closed yet we are divided and whine about one closed border with a genocidal neighbour. We are failing to follow the Jewish (Zionist) model.

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

That article Armanen posted summs up what i have been saying all along. As for following the xxx model, i do not wish to follow their model nor do we need to. We have our country and we can make it grow with respect and dignity without treachery.