Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

The Caucasus platform of Turkey may cause new conflicts

The Caucasus platform has a substantial defect – it has no place for Iran.
The initiative of Turkey to form a Caucasus platform may be assessed as an attempt to reanimate the Ottoman Empire at least within the Caucasus boundaries and in the presence of strategic relations with Russia, as well as to approach the status of a regional power-holder. What will happen next is well known to Armenia from her history, and you needn’t be a prophet to foresee that the Republic of Armenia will drown in the Turkic sea.


/PanARMENIAN.Net/ However, this plan has lots of defects: two countries, which according to Prime Minister of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan should form a union, are in rather problematic relations with their neighbours. Armenia and Georgia are the two countries mentioned. Georgia set the region, as well as the whole world on the brink of war, definitely knowing that it would end up “in a draw”. In spite of Saakashvili’s calls for peace and friendship, presently no one regards the Georgian President as a sober person and a reliable partner. In fact, with his «five-day war» Saakashvili tripped up Azerbaijan and Turkey, which used to rely on the profit from the Baku-Tbilisi-Jeihan oil-pipeline, as well as on Baku-Tbilisi-Erzurum gas line. Not to mention that in case Kars-Gyumri railway is reconstructed, it becomes useless to build the Baku-Tbilisi-Kars line, construction of this line being useless from the economic point of view, not to mention the underlying political motives. Even if the railway line is built, it may stand idle for the most part, since it passes through risky areas of Turkey, where the militants of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) act.

As for Armenia, the situation is much more serious here: absence of relations with Azerbaijan and Turkey. And if lately there has been laid grounds for a dialogue with Ankara, which, by the way, will not necessarily result in the opening of the Armenian-Turkish border, the situation is much more difficult with Baku. Armenian-Azerbaijani relations will hardly be normalized within the next 10-15 years, though officials from the USA and Russia are pressing for it. At least the Azerbaijani press is already circulating news on Turkey being the only substitute for the OSCE Minsk Group on the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict regulation.

The Azerbaijani Mass Media also considers that the mediatory mission of Ankara will have a better effect than the seventeen years’ activity of the Minsk Group. “Abdullah Gul’s initiative on regulating the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict is fully supported by both Russia and the USA. Turn of events of the past few days shows that Turkey is able to substitute the whole Minsk Group, which has been unsuccessfully engaged in the process of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict regulation for 17 years,” Bakiliar.AZ informs.

Moreover, the Turkish President openly declares that Armenia is ready to withdraw its troops from the safety area of Nagorno-Karabakh. The presence of Armenian troops in the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh is past Gul and Aliyev’s comprehension. In fact, the safety area is controlled by the NKR Army and the whole world, including the co-chairs, knows about it. However, the opposite side believes that it is more suitable to distort the reality, just like they keep reminding about the 20% of the “captured” Azerbaijani territory, which, in reality, is 13% and is the land of Nagorno-Karabakh. Anyway, it is the problem of Ilham Aliyev, and, perhaps, that of Gul’s.

The Caucasus platform has another substantial defect too – it has no place for Iran. In principle, Iran can have no place in this platform, since the Ottoman and the Persian Empires were constantly at war with each other and Iran’s joining the union, in case it is formed, is simply impossible. The pro-Turkey position of the USA is another reason why Iran cannot join the platform.

Yet, in short perspective, i.e. before regulation of Russia-West opposition, the Caucasus platform may become a reality. However, it will be incapable of taking decisive steps, such as regulation of conflicts in the Caucasus, and prevention of new ones.

http://www.panarmenian.net/details/eng/?nid=926

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I agree with you Hellektor, that Russia today article ticked me off too,

Why, because Russia is not ready today to ruin its relations with Baku?

You tell me. Purely from a business/economic perspective, who's friendship is worth more for Moscow - Baku's or Yerevan's?

The answer is - Baku.

Who's friendship is worth more from a strategic perspective, Baku's or Yerevan's?

The answer is - Baku and Yerevan are both equally important for Moscow.

Who can Moscow trust better, Baku or Yerevan?

The answer is - Yerevan.

Regardless of how you look at it, Moscow needs, wants and will strive to have better relations with both nations, not just one, if it can do it. And so far, it has managed it.

Russia Today is a state funded news agency (the director of which happens to be an Armenian). It simply cannot not openly and blatantly offend Baku or Yerevan, unless, like in the case of Tbilisi, it is forced to. However, ask yourself this question: Putting aside historical accuracy regarding Nagorno Karabagh, how often do you see articles in the Russian press outlining Russia's historic claims to Crimea? How often has 'Russia Today' featured information about Russia's historic claim to Crimea, a territory that has great/immense geopolitical and socioeconomic implications for Moscow. When was the last time you saw in the Russian press articles outlining the Tatar or Khazar presence in southern Russia? That would be historically accurate. Chechnya? When was the last time you saw accurate historical information in the Russian press about Ossetia, or Kurdistan, or Abkhazia, or Kosovo, or Taiwan, or Palestine, or Northern Cyprus, or North Ireland, or Kaliningrad, or Manchuria, or Kashmir, etc? Historical accuracy is a highly subjective topic and is full of geopolitical dangers. Not only Russia, no major nation today will go down that path.

Besides a few nations like us Armenians, many nations on earth (especially the powerful nations) are more-or-less living on occupied land. However, this is not an issue unless you are powerful enough to make it an issue. So, why would nations like Russia, Britain, China, Turkey, Israel, Germany and United States want to go that route, unless they are provoked into action, as with the case of Russia and Georgia. Do you think prior to the war in Georgia the Russian press was full of accurate historical essays outlining the presence of Abkhazians or Ossetians in the Caucasus? Moscow did what it did for geopolitical reasons not for historical or ethical reasons.

History is history, I don't understand why Armenians get all worked up about history. Other than a bunch of book nerds, who the hell cares about history? You think the financial/political elite care about history? When has history played a role in politics? When has historical accuracy, truth, justice, morality, etc., ever been an important factor in politics? I tell you when, when you don't have power, when you are weak and feeble, that's when you call for justice, and morality and for historical accuracy.

Moscow wants to control the Caucasus and it more-or-less already does and there is nothing you, myself, Hellektor and a 100,000 hayduks put together can do about it. However, Moscow also needs peace in the Caucasus now. Thus, it has to find a way to please Armenians and Azeris. It is the responsibility of our national leaders (both in the diaspora and the homeland) to lobby governments for Armenia. They need to convince, to demand, to bribe, to offer, to negotiate, to reject, to threaten, ect. However we need to do this in 'Moscow' not in Washington DC, not in Brussels. In Moscow! Do you see Armenian communities from around the world sending their representatives to the Kremlin to express their concerns? Are we collectively lobbying Moscow to stop it from forcing Armenians to make unwanted concessions in Nagorno Karabagh? No such thing is occurring because Armenians would rather verbally insult Moscow for it not wanting to ruin its relations with Azeris instead of doing something about it.

Moscow will do what is best for itself. Our job then is to convince Moscow that they need us. It's a difficult task, but that is it. Forget about telling me, "but they should already know they need us" or "we have done so much for them." None of that matters. Just tell me how are we doing in our job to convince them that they need us? It may be occurring but I don't see a frenzy of diplomatic activity between Yerevan and Moscow. This is a pivotal time in global history, especially for our region, yet it seems as if our national representatives are just sitting back and waiting for whatever.

As for what gul said about Armenia, I think it is bs he is trying to feed the populations of both turkey and azerbaijan so that cooperation with Armenia will be easier to accept. Any Armenian politician that really thinks or is about to give away those lands should be handled in a very harsh manner.

Ankara is famous for such deceptions. Anyway, a lot must be happening behind closed doors. Next week Serzh Sargsyan will be in New York, either to promote his agenda or to discuss the matter with Washington officials. I guess we will begin to see things happening on the ground during the next few months.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I understand all of the above, but it doesn't change the fact that the corporate media, and state owned media articles are crap nowadays. If they were going to gloss over the history then there was no reason to insert Assyria in there, as if that had anything to do with the area.

I get equally angry when I see similar things in western media and I have more reason to think they are 'against' us than Russia. I have always believed in self help, and while Armenia is on the good side of Russia we should work to make sure Armenia is powerful enough in every sector possible so that if/when the day comes that Russia isn't there (for us) we will be able to stand our ground. This will be difficult but it can be done and I am confident that with a little guidence from God and the right people to form the core this will happen.

Other than a bunch of book nerds, who the hell cares about history?

I do, you do, and millions of others do. Those who are in power, and who don't give a damn about history, or are not students of it, often don't make good leaders, don't last and are usually tools of a greater power.

[Hellektor]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Medvedev goes to Baku and announces that he sees the solution of the Artsakh issue in the territorial integrity of fake “Azerbaijan”. What territorial integrity? Can someone show a single legal document where the borders of this counterfeit nonentity have been delineated with the accordance of all neighboring states including Russia?

Then the double-dealing bastard recognizes Abkhazia and South Ossetia and he won't hear any talk of territorial integrity.

Regardless of how you look at it, Moscow needs, wants and will strive to have better relations with both nations, not just one, if it can do it. And so far, it has managed it.

While no one can tell Russia what to do, a serious Russian propaganda organization like Russia Today that completely regurgitates the Russian state’s viewpoint has no right to distort obvious, documented, undeniable history.

It's ridiculous that such a large bear hides its head in Siberian snow and denies that it was the Bolshevik Russian tyranny that in 1921 unlawfully annexed historically Armenian province of Artsakh to a three year-old, pan-Turkist Frankenstein monster that stole its name from the northwest Iranian province. If these fuckers had a grain of integrity, they wouldn't fabricate history that's even more brazen and fantastic than the crap thrown up by Azerbaboons themselves. I won’t have any excuses on this.

[Hellektor]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

History is history, I don't understand why Armenians get all worked up about history.

If you are indirectly talking about me, I am tearing my throat off, crying on top of my voice about INTERNATIONAL LAW. I damn well know about the double standards, but from the bunch of four levers, possession of most of which ensures how powerful a state is, and I repeat once more what I said in one of the previous posts: we only have that of the legal domain.

We do not have 1) economical, 2) political and 3) military levers to wrestle with powers but we have the 4) legal lever which is impeccable and we have to use it. Legally speaking fake “Azerbaijan” does not even exist. There's not a single document in the world where this pile of worthless garbage has ever existed as a subject of international law before 1991.

If we were to go to court and resolve the Artsakh issue according to territorial integrity, fake “Azerbaijan” couldn't stand a chance and it had to return the rest of Artsakh, Gandzak and Nakhijevan, not to speak of all the damages they caused the Armenian population and heritage of these areas and beyond.

Am I clear? Do I have the right to express my views on this and expect that somehow all of this could be heard by Armenian statesmen? Can I suggest that guys like Armen Ayvazian, Ara Papian, Artak Movsissian, Argam Ayvazian and Samuel Karapetian be heard by our statesmen, supported by all Armenians and their voices be echoed ever stronger, so that our nation becomes aware of their rights and will be watchful not to allow a single square nanometer of blood earned, sacred Armenian territory be given the voracious, genocidal Turk parasite that already has usurped 90% of our homeland?

My whole worry is the liberated territory around the artificially “Azeri” drawn borders of NKAO, the stealing of which is the aim of pan-Turkism and their western allies. Not for nothing is the ceding of that land to sore “Azeri” losers the number one point of the shameful peace paper farted by the three OCSE stooges and the subject of all resolutions, talks and articles on Artsakh issue. I hope sooner or later, the Armenian statesmen will come clean with the bluff and demand that no ceding of territory (and that to the losers, a world premiere!) should be a condition for peace.

Armenia, including Artsakh (albeit partly) and the liberated territories



Armenia, including Artsakh (albeit partly) without the liberated territories

Once the liberated territories are gone, Armenia will be as vulnerable as possible for pan-Turkist delusions. Emboldened by the usurpation of land even when they were the sore losers of the war they perpetrated, they will definitely break their promise on paper and will demand Meghri to have access to occupied Nakhijevan. That will cut Armenia from the only trustworthy neighbor and will bring about the final destruction of Armenia, the main goal of pan-Turkism.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I understand all of the above, but it doesn't change the fact that the corporate media, and state owned media articles are crap nowadays. If they were going to gloss over the history then there was no reason to insert Assyria in there, as if that had anything to do with the area.

Their point was - borders have always been fluid. This approach serves a general political purpose. Are you arguing that historical accuracy has to be taken into account by international bodies when taking into account a people's right to self-determination? That's a bit irrational, to say the least. Do you know what kind of an international mess that would leave us with?

I get equally angry when I see similar things in western media and I have more reason to think they are 'against' us than Russia.

This is exactly the kind of mindset that you and Hellektor need to get over. Other than certain circles in Ankara and Baku (who are against you), nobody is for you or against you. For the major powers, you are simply a piece of the puzzle, or a tool they seek to use at their discretion. You actually think officials in Washington or Brussels hate Armenians? Not in the least bit. Actually, Russian politicians are more likely to look down at or to hate Armenians. However, political formulations are altogether a different story. For the West Armenia is an obstacle, for Russia Armenia is an opportunity. For the West Armenia is worthless, for Russia Armenia is valuable.

I have always believed in self help, and while Armenia is on the good side of Russia we should work to make sure Armenia is powerful enough in every sector possible so that if/when the day comes that Russia isn't there (for us) we will be able to stand our ground.

This is our core/fundamental problem. Impoverished, landlocked, tiny and surrounded by enemies - there is not much we can do to help ourselves other than perpetually wage wars of survival. That is why we need to dance to Moscow's tune until our nation is wealthy enough and powerful enough to actually have a real say in international politics. Today, realistically speaking, Armenia has no say in anything. If today Moscow decided that the existence of Nagorno Karabagh no longer serves its purpose tomorrow Baku will commence a major war. And that war, regardless of who wins, will set Armenia back twenty years, if not more. And we'll have another million people fleeing due to economic reasons. I don't have to explain to you why because you know just as well as I do that Nagorno Karabagh exists today because Moscow has allowed it to exist, it simply fits their agenda for the region. Likewise with Armenia, it exists because Moscow needs Armenia to exist.

However, Armenia, inclusive of Nagorno Karabagh, will continue existing in this geopolitical climate because it serves a valuable geostrategic purpose in the eyes of the Kremlin. The only real danger we have today is the issue regarding the territories surrounding the official boundaries of Nagorno Karabagh. These territories in question are crucially important for Armenia and must be kept. Yerevan simply has to figure out a way to maintain control over the lands. Yerevan must be able to convince Moscow that Armenia's longterm survival in the Caucasus depends on these lands. I think most of our diplomatic efforts need to be directed towards this very direction.

This will be difficult but it can be done and I am confident that with a little guidence from God and the right people to form the core this will happen. I do, you do, and millions of others do. Those who are in power, and who don't give a damn about history, or are not students of it, often don't make good leaders, don't last and are usually tools of a greater power. Good luck. Only arms determines li

This is the kind of spirit more of us need. Alarmingly, this kind of spirit is rare in the diaspora and lacking in the homeland. No historical accuracy, no morality, no international law - only wealth and power determines the longterm fate of a nation. Only our steadfast determination and conviction can convince Moscow that forcing Yerevan into concessions will not work. Russia will not use military force against Armenia, so actions Yerevan take's regarding Nagorno Karabagh can have a major impact on the Kremlin. If Armenia show's steadfast resolve, Moscow may again decide to put off resolving the issue, fearing fresh round of hostilities in the region. However, don't expect them, especially under the current geopolitical climate, to recognize Nagorno Karabagh's independence.

What you and Hellektor are not realizing that it took Moscow over fifteen years and a series of extraordinary events to finally decide it will recognize Abkhazia and Ossetia, two territories, incidentally, that are essentially a part of "historic" Russia. And here we are complaining that they are posting historically inaccurate information regarding Nagorno Karabagh? Just think about all the things Moscow had to go through to recognize the two territories, and continues to go through. Think of Crimea, it's historic Russian territory that the Communists gave away. What is Russia doing about it? For Russia, Crimea has immense geopolitical and socioeconomic value. Why are they not recognizing it? Have you seen Russia Today reports regarding Crimea? Other than stating the territory was given to Ukraine as a good will gesture by the communist, not a single word about the history of the region.

I am asking you people not to turn these highly complex and potentially incendiary geopolitical matters into petty tribal issues.

Medvedev goes to Baku and announces that he sees the solution of the Artsakh issue in the territorial integrity of fake “Azerbaijan”. What territorial integrity? Can someone show a single legal document where the borders of this counterfeit nonentity have been delineated with the accordance of all neighboring states including Russia?

Many of the most powerful nations on earth today are "fake" as well. Then what? They exist, they are wealthy, they are powerful... We are a genuine nation, we love justice, we love peace... Then what?

Moscow, as well as Yerevan, has always stated that it considers the 'territorial integrity' of Azerbaijan and Nagorno Karabagh's 'self determination' to be on the same level in the eyes of international law. If interested, go back and read all the comments regarding this point they have continuously made. Moscow has also repeatedly warned against the resumption of hostilities in the territories and they have said that the two sides have to work it out on the negotiation table. They have been very balanced diplomatically and their stance has been indirectly pro-Armenian.

No government on earth is going to openly state that it does not recognize the territorial integrity of another nation - unless they are at war with that nation.

Then the double-dealing bastard recognizes Abkhazia and South Ossetia and he won't hear any talk of territorial integrity.

This is silly talk, Hellektor. I really don't understand you sometimes...

How about Moscow recognizes Tataristan's independence as well. What about Chechnya's independence? Ingushetia? Daghestan? Northern Cyprus? Taiwan? Kurdistan? Why isn't Moscow reclaiming its historic territory in the Crimea? Baltics? Historically, Abkhazia and Ossetia have been Russian. The two peoples in question have historically been very pro-Russian. So Hellektor, why did it take Russia more than fifteen years and a highly explosive international crisis to recognize the territories? Could it be that these things we are discussing here are not child's play, they have immense political and economic implications?

While no one can tell Russia what to do, a serious Russian propaganda organization like Russia Today that completely regurgitates the Russian state’s viewpoint has no right to distort obvious, documented, undeniable history.

Russia Today is a state run organ. Thus, the agency in question is subordinate to state officials. And state officials are subordinate to the Kremlin. And the Kremlin has to play a massive role on the international scene. Stop turning these complex matters into tribal warfare.

It's ridiculous that such a large bear hides its head in Siberian snow and denies that it was the Bolshevik Russian tyranny that in 1921 unlawfully annexed historically Armenian province of Artsakh to a three year-old,

What about Crimea? The same could be said of Abkahzia and Ossetia. When did you hear or see a Russian report bitching about how the Bolsheviks (Stalin in particular) unlawfully gave it away to the Georgians?

pan-Turkist Frankenstein monster that stole its name from the northwest Iranian province.

Would it have made any difference for you if they had adopted the name Alania or Tataria or Albania or what have you??? What's with that name? Who gives a shit?

If these fuckers had a grain of integrity, they wouldn't fabricate history that's even more brazen and fantastic than the crap thrown up by Azerbaboons themselves. I won’t have any excuses on this.

What did they fabricate, Hellektor? The Assyrian part? Look it up, at a certain time in history (a long time as a matter of fact) the region was under Assyrian rule. What's the big deal?

Keep integrity in the family, nations are run by politics.

I am tearing my throat off, crying on top of my voice about INTERNATIONAL LAW.

You actually place hope on international law? You really think it exists?

It's really sad Hellektor that we Armenians will never learn.

International law is made by and for those who carry the biggest guns.

Once the liberated territories are gone, Armenia will be as vulnerable as possible for pan-Turkist delusions. Emboldened by the usurpation of land even when they were the sore losers of the war they perpetrated, they will definitely break their promise on paper and will demand Meghri to have access to occupied Nakhijevan. That will cut Armenia from the only trustworthy neighbor and will bring about the final destruction of Armenia, the main goal of pan-Turkism.

I agree. This is my biggest fear as well.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Are you arguing that historical accuracy has to be taken into account by international bodies when taking into account a people's right to self-determination? That's a bit irrational, to say the least. Do you know what kind of an international mess that would leave us with?

I am saying that misinformation ticks me off, I understand why it happens, but it ticks me off. Thus the bs they try to feed the public in america about 9/11 or international terrorism, that ticks me off too, but I understand why they do it. As for historical accuracy, it should but is not, and when it is then it obviously serves the interests of the big powers. Hence, kosovo which the albanians have no historical claim to, but since they had become the majority there in the past 50 years and the u.s./nato had an interest in having another puppet in the region they decided to recognize its independence. There are a lot of things that should be different, some of them may change in time, but one must never forget the difference between what 'ought' to be and what 'is'.

This is exactly the kind of mindset that you and Hellektor need to get over. Other than certain circles in Ankara and Baku (who are against you), nobody is for you or against you. For the major powers, you are simply a piece of the puzzle, or a tool they seek to use at their discretion. However, political formulations are altogether a different story. For the West Armenia is an obstacle, for Russia Armenia is an opportunity. For the West Armenia is worthless, for Russia Armenia is valuable.

We don't know what goes on behind closed doors in these places and we don't know who runs the show, what all their objectives are, etc. Against may have been the wrong word to use, but I put ' ' around it, meaning that the opinion held is against our interests and maybe for the so called west or Russia it's in their interests. I already know that there are no friends/enemies on the international scene, just objectives/interests/agendas.

Yerevan simply has to figure out a way to maintain control over the lands. Yerevan must be able to convince Moscow that Armenia's longterm survival in the Caucasus depends on these lands. I think most of our diplomatic efforts need to be directed towards this very direction.

I agree, yet other than writing letters to the officials in Yerevan there is not much we can do about it. And this is exactly what Hellektor was getting at, plus the legal aspect of it, even international law doesn't really exist, at least when it comes to politics, we should still pursue a muti prong attack, not put all of our eggs in one basket even if that basket (Moscow) is the most important. So the politicians in Yerevan really need to think all this over and weigh the cost benefit of taking turkey or azerbaijan to court. We can form initial opinions now in favor of this or that, but unless we KNOW what the officials in Yerevan know, it will always be an initial opinion aka not worth s*it.

This is the kind of spirit more of us need. Alarmingly, this kind of spirit is rare in the diaspora and lacking in the homeland.

Well then don't ask "who gives a xxxx about history" when I know you are a history buff and must realize that all the great leaders of the past have been students of history and have used it to further their aims. But I understand that might makes right, and only force will set things aright (for us), not law, history, moral superiority, etc.

I am asking you people not to turn these highly complex and potentially incendiary geopolitical matters into petty tribal issues.

We are on the same page bro, please don't make negative assumptions about that.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Aww, mutual d!ck sucking. How cute!
----------------------------------
Gul formally invites Sargsyan to Istanbul
13.09.2008 14:07 GMT+04:00 Print version Send to mail In Russian In Armenian

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Turkish President Abdullah Gul formally invited his Armenian counterpart Serzh Sargsyan to Istanbul to watch a return match between the Armenian and Turkish national teams in 2009.

In his message, the Turkish President thanked Mr Sargsyan for sincere welcome and said he is pleased with the outcomes of his visit, CNN Turk reports.

The Armenian President’s administration confirmed the information to PanARMENIAN.Net.

From http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=27038

[meline]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I agree with all that's been said so far about the media game. But still, statements like these bother me:

Turkish, Azeri, Armenian leaders to meet in New York
13.09.2008 16:41 GMT+04:00
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Presidents of Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan will meet in New York on Sept.16 during the UN General Assembly session.

Armenian Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandian and his Turkish counterpart Ali Babacan will also be present at the meeting.

Earlier, Turkish President Abdullah Gul announced his intention to mediate between the Armenian and Azerbaijani Presidents. “The OSCE Minsk Group failed to produce effect during 17 years of its mediation. Turkey-Armenia and Azerbaijan-Armenia issues are not only bilateral but also territorial. The situation in the region has changed. Resolution of conflicts will lead to political and economic stability,” he said."

http://panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=27033

[meline]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Azerbaijan urges Turkey to co-preside in the OSCE Minsk Group
In all probability Baku and Ankara are eager to billet international peacekeeping troops in the region of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, and change of format is exactly what they need.09.09.2008 GMT+04:00
Visit of the Turkish President to Yerevan once again revived the problem of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict regulation. Azerbaijan’s enthusiasm to promote Turkey’s co-presidency in the OSCE Minsk Group over the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict regulation is not new to us, especially when Turkey together with France, USA, and Russia (co-chairs), as well as with Belarus, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands, Sweden and Finland is a member of the OSCE Minsk Group, established in 1992 with the aim of the conflict settlement.
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ However, the Minsk Regulation claims that parties interested or occupying a one-sided position in the conflict are not eligible for co-presidency. That is, Turkey, which backs up Azerbaijan, cannot be elected a co-chair, and Baku and Ankara can’t but know about it. But a complete change of format is quite another matter. There are lots of examples – Russia agreed to allow European peacekeeping troops in the region of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict. In all probability Baku and Ankara are eager to billet international peacekeeping troops in the region of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, and change of format is exactly what they need. However, a question arises – who will Turkey substitute: Russia, USA or France? The question is in no way rhetorical, since presently it is only France that occupies a more or less balanced position, which is not true about the USA and Russia.

“Armenia will hardly trust Turkey, a pro-Azeri country, as a mediator in the process of regulation of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Besides, being a co-chair of the OSCE Minsk Group and eager to maintain the present format, Russia will hardly allow mediation of Turkey,” declared Svante Cornell, Research Director of the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute and Co-founder of Stockholm Institue for Security and Development.

Like France, the USA will hardly renounce its participation in the conflict settlement. Quite possibly it will be proved that these hypotheses were provoked by well-known Azeri political scientist Vafa Guluzade. “The USA has already announced about its leaving the OSCE Minsk Group in order not to appear in the same structure with Russia. And it is quite explicable. After the undisguised military aggression of Russia against Georgia the relations between the Kremlin and the White House have been extremely chilled. Besides, the activity of the OSCE Minsk Group has long changed into an object of ridicule and no longer does it enjoy confidence. That is why the talks on suspending the OSCE Minsk Group activity are becoming more and more frequent,” declared Guluzade, an Azeri political scientist, who always gives the desired for a fact.

“The OSCE Minsk Group has failed to produce effect during 17 years of its existence,” declared President of Turkey Abdullah Gul. The Turkey-Armenia and Azerbaijan-Armenia issues are not only bilateral but also territorial, according to him. “The situation has considerably changed in the region. Peace in the Caucasus and regulation of conflicts between the countries will lead to both political and economic stability,” Gul said. It should be noted that previously the Turkish President had declared about his willingness to serve as a mediator between the Presidents of Armenia and Azerbaijan. In his words Armenian President Serzh Sargsyan has given consent to arrange the meeting. At the same time the Turkish Leader expressed hope that he would receive the approval of the Azerbaijani President too. “I will meet him soon to discuss the details and will brief on the outcomes of my visit to Armenia,” he said. Meanwhile Turkish experts do not exclude the possibility of a meeting between the Presidents of Armenia, Russia, Turkey and Azerbaijan with the aim to discuss the Nagorno Karabakh conflict settlement.

Judging by the interview that Gul gave after his visit to Yerevan the major topic of the meeting had been the problem of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict settlement. “Serzh Sargsyan declared about Aemania’s willingness to regulate the regional problems and expressed pleasure towards our participation in the process. He announced his country’s support of the Caucasian platform of stability and cooperation and said that they observe in it a possibility of conflict regulation in the region, at the same time realizing the necessity of a broad participation in the dialogue after the Georgian events. Serzh Sargsyan noted that he had often met the Aliyevs and intended to continue the regular meetings with him,” the Turkish President informed.

Meanwhile, according to Mikhail Alexandrov, Head of the Caucasus Department at the Institute of CIS Studies, it is essential for Armenia to restore relations with Turkey and open a regular passage for the delivery of goods. “Russia welcomes the meeting between the Presidents of Armenia and Turkey. «Russian Railways» (RZD), which has gained concession over the Armenian Railway for 30 years, is interested in restoration of Kars-Gyumri line and opening of the Armenian-Turkish border,” Alexandrov said. “Unfortunately, two major questions still remain unsettled. Turkey urges Armenia to give up its policy of calling for international recognition of the Armenian Genocide and to withdraw its forces from 7 regions surrounding Nagorno Karabakh. I think there is a mutually acceptable variant: Armenia doesn’t renounce the Genocide recognition but stops the worldwide recognition campaign. For its part, Turkey doesn’t insist on the withdrawal of Armenian troops from Nagorno Karabakh. Armenia has to choose between economic blockade and Genocide recognition,” the Russian expert believes.

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