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Armenian-Turkish Relations

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  • #1021
    Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

    Originally posted by KarotheGreat View Post
    The last time Turkey tried to invade Armenia was 14 years ago. What has changed since than? What guarantee do we have that they will not try invading again?
    They 'had' a reason for that. Still, I dont think that there is anything that Ankara can gain from Armenia. Cyprus is a strategic location; its in the middle of the Mediterrian and a possible strile base to southern coast of Anatolia. Same for the Aegean Sea and Greek islands there. However, Armenia has no strategic role for Ankara.

    Turkic world is not a single unity such as EU nor a fake-bordered society of Arabic states. There are several and serious differences among them; so 'Turan' is a dream.. You may be reading thoughts and plans of that 'great' Turkic union; however it has never became a policy of Ankara; and could not be. It is not realictis. Not because of Armenia but because of post-Soviet problems among Central Asian republics, long-lost historical connections, cultural differences, politics, language...

    Also, a war with Armenia would not work for a direct-connection with Caspian Sea... Georgia is already doing fine and as long as they have that xxxxty relationship with Russia, unfortunately she would need the support of the West forever, and Turkey.

    Guess that Turkey declared war upon Armenia, and somehow Russia did not stand against it and after long battles Turkish Army entered Yerevan...

    So what? It is full of Armenians, Turks would not be able to control that land. And there is nothing to gain from it, no sources no seaports.. Ankara already has everything that Armenia also has.

    There would be serious problems with EU and UN.. Probably there would be an embargo, most probably would lost her NATO membership; economy would be damaged, would be a radical country such as Iran and N. Korea...

    lots and lots of loses just for a small land.

    I do not think that would be possible... As long as ultra-fascists dont take the control.. even NMP can not take that risk.

    Comment

    • #1022
      Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

      Originally posted by Army View Post
      They 'had' a reason for that. Still, I dont think that there is anything that Ankara can gain from Armenia. Cyprus is a strategic location; its in the middle of the Mediterrian and a possible strile base to southern coast of Anatolia. Same for the Aegean Sea and Greek islands there. However, Armenia has no strategic role for Ankara.

      Turkic world is not a single unity such as EU nor a fake-bordered society of Arabic states. There are several and serious differences among them; so 'Turan' is a dream.. You may be reading thoughts and plans of that 'great' Turkic union; however it has never became a policy of Ankara; and could not be. It is not realictis. Not because of Armenia but because of post-Soviet problems among Central Asian republics, long-lost historical connections, cultural differences, politics, language...

      Also, a war with Armenia would not work for a direct-connection with Caspian Sea... Georgia is already doing fine and as long as they have that xxxxty relationship with Russia, unfortunately she would need the support of the West forever, and Turkey.

      Guess that Turkey declared war upon Armenia, and somehow Russia did not stand against it and after long battles Turkish Army entered Yerevan...

      So what? It is full of Armenians, Turks would not be able to control that land. And there is nothing to gain from it, no sources no seaports.. Ankara already has everything that Armenia also has.

      There would be serious problems with EU and UN.. Probably there would be an embargo, most probably would lost her NATO membership; economy would be damaged, would be a radical country such as Iran and N. Korea...

      lots and lots of loses just for a small land.

      I do not think that would be possible... As long as ultra-fascists dont take the control.. even NMP can not take that risk.
      I see a few gaping holes in your argument.Turckey has a proven trackrecord of genocidal tendencies, so what do you base your statement of "So what? It is full of Armenians, Turks would not be able to control that land. " on? What would stop it from completing the job it started in 1915 if it took Yerevan? Your other mistake is that you assume it has nothing to gain by taking Hayastan. By taking Hayastan, Turckey gets rid of russian influence in the region and takes control of all traffic going through caucuses. There are a few other misconceptions you have here but these two kind of took care of most of it.
      Hayastan or Bust.

      Comment

      • #1023
        Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

        I dont think that Turkey is in a stiuation that could think (to act) that larger. Its a regional power, which means actions are limited. Global politics and powers would not allow a single power to take all the control over Caucasuses. One should be 'mad' for that; even Iran and Israel are not irrational enough for something like that... Maybe North Korea, heh. But they are far away.

        Comment

        • #1024
          Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

          You are right turckey cannot do it but we were talking about hypothetical scenerios. In truth the country closest to controling the region is Russia and its control will be increasing greatly with the passing of the much debated protocals. As a matter of fact if the world was a stockmarket and countries were stocks, Russia would be the hottest stock to buy because it is set to rise bigtime in the not too distant future.
          Hayastan or Bust.

          Comment

          • #1025
            Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

            Originally posted by JohnCanadian View Post
            I think it is good that Turkey and Armenia are reestablishing their Diplomatic relations albeit very slowly, this will ensure the peace is being upheld along with the values of Democracy being respected between the two countries.

            I believe in the long term Turkey and Armenia have quite a lot to gain as the trust begins to build.

            People to people trade and goods will expand. Armenia is the country that is worst effected then Turkey. However Turkey loses out on tourists numbers from Armenia that could add the strength of the developed Turkish Tourist Industry. Turkey could have more numbers if it was to open up its market to Armenia. I do not believe that Armenia's extremely low purchasing power will have an effect on the number of tourists into Turkey from Armenia.

            Armenia will slowly start developing as a result of the opening of Turkish markets which provide Armenia immense opportunities to trade with its bigger neighbour.

            I support any kind of rapprochement into foreign relations between countries that have been damaged.

            We should have diplomatic and commercial relationship because that is the international norm and advantages to be gained both sides. BUT

            All our relationship should always be that of dealing with a snake.
            Always careful, weigh ten act one.

            Lose you focus and you will not get another chance.
            Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
            Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
            Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

            Comment

            • #1026
              Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

              Thousands Protest Armenian President's L.A. Visit
              Armenian Community Upset President Is Warming Relations With Turkey




              Thousands of Armenian-Americans protested Sunday over the visit of Armenia's president to Los Angeles outside the Beverly Hills Hilton.






              BEVERLY HILLS (CBS) ― Thousands of Armenian-Americans protested Sunday over the visit of Armenia's president to Los Angeles outside the Beverly Hills Hilton.


              Thousands of Armenian-Americans took to the streets of Beverly Hills to protest the visit of Armenia's president. The community is upset that Pres. Serzh Sargsyan is normalizing relations with Turkey, a country that reportedly does not recognize the Armenian genocide.

              The demonstrators gathered at 3 p.m. Sunday outside the Beverly Hills Hilton where Sargsyan was visiting.

              They said they want Sargsyan to pull back from an agreement to establish diplomatic ties with Turkey and reopen the common borders.

              Turkey has set a precondition to the agreement that their country would not have to acknowledge the Armenian genocide occurred and would instead leave the matter in the hands of a commission that would evaluate the history between the two countries.

              "We are all for open borders and open diplomatic relations with Turkey," said Armenian National Committee of America member Stepan Boyajian, adding, "But it can only happen with no preconditions...for the dialogue to move forward."

              The Armenian genocide of 1915 to 1918 claimed the lives of about 1.2 million Armenians under the Ottoman Empire, which became the modern republic of Turkey, though the Turkish government disputes that the genocide took place.

              Turkey disputes the number of those killed and argues that Armenians were equally brutal in slaying Turks when they revolted against their Ottoman rulers and aligned themselves with invading Russian troops.

              Thousands of protesters also rallied Sept. 27 in Glendale against the proposed protocols.

              They object to the commission, saying it undermines the recognition of the Armenian Genocide by the international community. They also object to Armenia accepting Turkey's present borders, which would preclude future territorial claims by Armenians.

              CBS Los Angeles - Breaking Local News, Weather & Investigations
              http://cbs2.com/local/Armenian.protest.Beverly.2.1227516.html
              Latest breaking news from KCBS-TV | KCAL-TV Los Angeles.

              (© 2008 CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Wire services contributed to this report.)
              "All truth passes through three stages:
              First, it is ridiculed;
              Second, it is violently opposed; and
              Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

              Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

              Comment

              • #1027
                Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                Notice how they change the numbers? Now it is 1.2 million. So 300,000 people just vanished out of thin air. Basically that means Turkey is giving the media network some money on the side or the network is too scared to be 'controversial'.

                Comment

                • #1028
                  Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                  Originally posted by hipeter924 View Post
                  Notice how they change the numbers? Now it is 1.2 million. So 300,000 people just vanished out of thin air. Basically that means Turkey is giving the media network some money on the side or the network is too scared to be 'controversial'.
                  When 1.5 million was a certain number ?

                  Comment

                  • #1029
                    Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                    Originally posted by Yakamoz View Post
                    When 1.5 million was a certain number ?

                    You're right, it was more than 1.5 million.
                    For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                    to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                    http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

                    Comment

                    • #1030
                      Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                      Originally posted by Armanen View Post
                      You're right, it was more than 1.5 million.
                      I think those are only the numbers during the 20th century.
                      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

                      Comment

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