Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Haykakan]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I guess the turcks dont like the taste of their own medicine lol.

[gegev]

Re: Turkey Calls Armenian High Court Ruling ‘Unacceptable’

Some Armenians, including our FM, cried to urge us that there are no preconditions in the protocols, but now they changed their mind: after the constitutional court ruling. Amazing how easily they do it!

[KanadaHye]

Re: Turkey Calls Armenian High Court Ruling ‘Unacceptable’

Some Armenians, including our FM, cried to urge us that there are no preconditions in the protocols, but now they changed their mind: after the constitutional court ruling. Amazing how easily they do it!

Politics, it's a dirty game.

News from TAIWAN?!?

Turkey says reconciliation with Armenia at risk

By SELCAN HACAOGLU
Associated Press
2010-01-20 11:21 PM

The Turkish prime minister on Wednesday said an Armenian court's reference to the mass killings of Armenians could harm efforts to end a century of enmity.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan was reacting to the Jan. 12 approval by Armenia's Constitutional Court of an October agreement to heal ties and reopen shared borders.

Armenia on Tuesday defended the court's decision, triggering an exchange of harsh statements that could further complicate the two countries' implementation of the deal.

In a ruling on whether the proposed agreement was constitutional, the Armenian court referred to the country's independence declaration, which calls for recognition of the 1915 massacre of up to 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turks as genocide.

Turkey says the number is inflated and that many died on both sides during a chaotic period.

Erdogan called the court's ruling "unacceptable" and warned that the process of reconciliation "would be harmed if it is not corrected."

"Moreover, we don't have the luxury of keeping Armenia-Azerbaijan relations out of this," Erdogan said in apparent response to the court's also saying agreements with Turkey shouldn't concern any third party. He spoke during a visit to Saudi Arabia.

Turkey also wants Armenian troops withdrawn from Nagorno-Karabakh, an Armenian-occupied enclave in Azerbaijan. Turkey closed the border in 1993 to protest Armenia's war with neighboring Azerbaijan.

"No one should expect deliberations on the protocols to take place even at the commission level, let alone the floor, unless Armenia withdraws from Nagorno-Karabakh," Bekir xxxdag, a senior lawmaker from Erdogan's Justice and Development Party, said on Wednesday. "Armenia must honor its promise and fulfill its responsibility if it wants the normalization of ties between the two countries."

Turkey shares ethnic and cultural bonds with Azerbaijan and wants a peaceful settlement to the dispute over Nagorno-Karabakh.

Turkey's recent spat with Armenia has emboldened the country's opposition to demand the government scrap the Oct. 10 deal altogether.

Devlet Bahceli, the chairman of a nationalist opposition party, said the government should "immediately withdraw" the protocols from the parliament. No date has been set for their ratification.

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_...&lang=eng_news

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Well eventually our donkey governament is learning how to deal with turks....

[garod]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

The protocols aim to establish relations without preconditions.It is clear that ruling party AKP made lots of mistakes.As being so optimistic about Azerbajian and hoping that Armenia will give up genocide recognition with history commission.Also protocols couldn't take place in the agenda till the Armenian court's decision because of unsolved Kurdish problem and chaotic days of Turkey. Actually court confirmed that it's OK but AKP started to use it as a pretext which is like gift for them in this situation. What a pity. No need to wait for 20 years again.

[Alexandros]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Turkey Is Trying to Dictate to Armenia

Posted GMT 1-21-2010 23:5:34

By Lee Jay Walker

The Seoul Times

The passages of time never heal completely when such crimes have been committed and the aggressor refuses to either admit to such barbaric crimes or makes lame excuses all the time. Despite this, Armenia entered talks with Turkey in the hope of solving long held problems and in the need to stabilize the region.

However, leaders in Turkey are still trying to dictate and they are putting pre-conditions down on a conflict which is outside their remit. This applies to the ongoing crisis in Nagorno-Karabakh and the dispute between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Yet this issue involves Armenia and Azerbaijan and it is not up to Turkey to decide the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Yes, Turkey, just like the Russian Federation and Iran, and other regional nations and nations who are also concerned about this issue, does have a right to be concerned about regional problems but it must be "an honest broker" and not dictatorial. After all, would Turkey be happy if Armenia stated that Turkey must handover land to the Kurds or return land to the Armenians, Assyrians, and other ethnic groups who were "cleansed" in the early 20th century?

It also must be remembered that Turkish military forces are still based throughout northern Cyprus and this is the problem with Turkey. For it appears that the leaders of Turkey suffer from historical amnesia. Also, nationalism is still a potent force within the major institutions of Turkey.

If we look at the founding father of modern day Turkey, Kemal Ataturk, then it is clear that he himself supported the destruction of Christianity via the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek Christian genocide of 1915. Therefore, it is clear that Turkish nationalism and secularism is tainted by its anti-Christian nature and also its anti-Kurdish nature. After all, the nation state of Turkey was about Turkish nationalism and secularism did not protect the religious or ethnic minorities of this diverse nation.

Some people in Turkey play "the religious card" and ply the mantra of Muslim brotherhood. However, this is also hollow because tens of thousands of mainly Muslim Kurds have been killed over the last few decades and many Kurdish villages were also destroyed. Also, the Alevi are a Muslim minority group in Turkey and they also face discrimination and massacres have taken place against them from time to time, for example in 1993 you had the Sivas massacre when radical Sunni Islamists killed many innocent people.

Turning back to recent times the Foreign Minister of Armenia, Eduard Nalbandian, was very frank about the ongoing problem with Turkey. He stated that "Had there been preconditions, we would not have started this process and reached agreements in the first place." Nalbandian continued by stating that "If one of the parties is creating artificial obstacles, dragging out things, that means it is assuming responsibility for the failure of this process," and this can be seen to be a tacit warning to Turkey about the ongoing problems involving Armenia and Turkey.

However, the Prime Minister of Turkey, Tayyip Erdogan, stated in October 2009 that "Turkey cannot take a positive step towards Armenia unless Armenia withdraws from Azerbaijani land [...] if that issue is solved our people and our parliament will have a more positive attitude towards this protocol and this process."

Erdogan also stated that "We will bring the protocol to parliament but parliament has to see the conditions between Azerbaijan and Armenia to decide whether this protocol can be implemented."

Yet according to Alexander Iskandaryan, director of the Caucasus Media Institute in Yerevan, he makes it clear that "The Turkish side needs to play to its domestic audience. Erdogan and other political figures have made such statements often enough [...] It's a fact that neither the word Karabakh nor Azerbaijan appears in the documents that were signed."

Nalbandian also commented in January 2010 that "If Turkey takes a step back, then this will be not only a violation of the agreements with Armenia but will demonstrate that it is not respecting the international community's opinion, with all resulting consequences and the loss of credibility in the first instance." He continued by stating that "Armenia, on the other hand, will -- let's not say win -- not lose anything that we had before this process."

Therefore, outside nations need to put more pressure on Turkey in order for "a new chapter" to begin between Armenia and Turkey. The Nagorno-Karabakh issue is indeed serious, however, this dispute is between Armenia and Azerbaijan and the people of Nagorno-Karabakh. Also, the Nagorno-Karabakh crisis must be resolved by all the parties involved and by both regional and global institutions which have a vested interest in solving this complex problem.

However, the Nagorno-Karabakh crisis is a separate issue and Turkey can't claim otherwise because this issue was outside the signed agreement between Armenia and Turkey.

The genocide of Armenians and other Christians in 1915 is an historical fact and the same applies to massacres which took place before and after this date. Turkey can never erase this history, however, this nation can start "a fresh chapter" which is based on sincerity and genuine friendship with Armenia.

Therefore, do the leaders of Turkey desire friendship and honesty or is nationalism too embedded within the mindset of the political elites of this nation?

Link

[Hye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Quote: "Well eventually our donkey governament is learning how to deal with turks.... "
Please respect yourself first of all and learn to respect others keep your distructive hatred to yourself I don't care if you are used to degrade people who don't agree with you or have different opinon learn not to and maybe then we would be a better nation and we forget about all the misary we have brought to ourselves just because of this. Just because you have just learned how things work this doesn't mean Armenian Goveernemnt didn't know all along. Do you think this all was accedant? just like your mind think such a way don't think that a nation works in the same way. This was a great move by the Armenian government the signing was a great move and so is this. If i were you i would not look in the eye of another Armenian for all the horrible thing you said to the leadrs of OUR country and made them traitor I donno what and now you can't even accept that you were wrong and you are still calling names shame on you. If just you had a brain to think clearly and listened to what our president Serje Sarksian had to say when the protocols were being signed you would realise all along what is the stance of the Armenian govenment but hot headed people like you made a fool of our nation. you have something to say learn to say it in a good manner.

[Hye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Hi Gegev how are you man?

your quote: "Some Armenians, including our FM, cried to urge us that there are no preconditions in the protocols, but now they changed their mind: after the constitutional court ruling. Amazing how easily they do it!"

Can you explain to me how did they try to change their mind? what the constitutioanl court just ruled wan't it announced by our President Serje Sarksian the same day the protocols were signed? The infamouse four points go and read that speech please. And even if we assume those points didn't correspond to what the court ruled we can consider this a very clever move bby Armenia when they saw Turkey was bringing in the Karabakh issue from left and right there you go Turkey go and figure. This can be looked in two differnt ways first of all this is a shocking discovary to all those who were crying Serje was a traitor and was selling Armenia Armenian Genocide to Turks and i was one of those who believe that is an impossiblility because of many reaons I can tell you and we saw that this failed as was failed before some people just weren't able to see. Second this proves the competence of our government that in the end they know what they are doing as i said these are people who think of these issues 24/7 let's give them a little credit.

[Jos]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Turkey Is Trying to Dictate to Armenia

Posted GMT 1-21-2010 23:5:34

By Lee Jay Walker

The Seoul Times

If we look at the founding father of modern day Turkey, Kemal Ataturk, then it is clear that he himself supported the destruction of Christianity via the Armenian, Assyrian and Greek Christian genocide of 1915.

Link

How could Ataturk have supported this in 1915 when he was only a middle ranking officer engaged in the Gallipoli defense under General Limon Van Sanders?

Wrong to the point of almost comical. Is this amateur hour Alexandros? Do you even read any of these articles before posting them. Or is the only requirement being they must be anti-turkish?

[gegev]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Hi Gegev how are you man?
your quote: "Some Armenians, including our FM, cried to urge us that there are no preconditions in the protocols, but now they changed their mind: after the constitutional court ruling. Amazing how easily they do it!"
Can you explain to me how did they try to change their mind? what the constitutioanl court just ruled wan't it announced by our President Serje Sarksian the same day the protocols were signed? The infamouse four points go and read that speech please. And even if we assume those points didn't correspond to what the court ruled we can consider this a very clever move bby Armenia when they saw Turkey was bringing in the Karabakh issue from left and right there you go Turkey go and figure. This can be looked in two differnt ways first of all this is a shocking discovary to all those who were crying Serje was a traitor and was selling Armenia Armenian Genocide to Turks and i was one of those who believe that is an impossiblility because of many reaons I can tell you and we saw that this failed as was failed before some people just weren't able to see. Second this proves the competence of our government that in the end they know what they are doing as i said these are people who think of these issues 24/7 let's give them a little credit.

Hello Hye!

Turks protest against the limitations/reservations set by Armenian Constitutional Court, because it, according to their statements, doesn’t allow them:

1) get current Armenian-Turkish borders recognized
2) discussing AG
3) ensuring Azeri territorial “integrity”

Doesn’t this mean that w/o the Court reservations they got them all?

As to Serj Sargsyan’s four points (I agree the points say approximently the same as CC ruling), but:
does everything president says, without getting it ratified by the parliament, have the force of being legally binding document; to be used in international affairs?