Armenian Georgian Relations

[diaukhi]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

You Georgian?

We created your alphabet, we helped build your cities, many of your churches either were from ours or copying our architecture (some ancient Armenian graveyards, and churches are 'Georgianised"), Georgians as a people are like an offshoot of the Armenian nation that developed a separate identity.

And as a "Christian" people, Georgians have always sided with Muslims, betraying their Christian identity. Not to mentions been horrible at maintain non-Georgian christian sites in their lands.

Russians have been a much more reliable friend to us, and have often fought with us against Muslims, notably Turks. Would be nice if Russia had erased the fake Christian nation of Georgia in 2008 war.

nekresi I century

davatis stela IV century

as you see georgian alphabet is older than yours
you buil cities? tbilisi? old tbilisi buillt by arabs
which churhces are georgianized? what about georian churches in anisi and lore( akhtala, qoberi, ardvi, sanini and others?
armenians are very poor people. you have complex because you know that georgia is more ancient than you desert country. vardan mamikonian was chan ( laz) first armenian kingdomwas in 190 BC and colchis was 13 century bc and iberia was 5 century bc somxebo dabrundid balkanebze

[Mos]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

what armenias did for us?

You Georgian?

We created your alphabet, we helped build your cities, many of your churches either were from ours or copying our architecture (some ancient Armenian graveyards, and churches are 'Georgianised"), Georgians as a people are like an offshoot of the Armenian nation that developed a separate identity.

And as a "Christian" people, Georgians have always sided with Muslims, betraying their Christian identity. Not to mentions been horrible at maintain non-Georgian christian sites in their lands.

Russians have been a much more reliable friend to us, and have often fought with us against Muslims, notably Turks. Would be nice if Russia had erased the fake Christian nation of Georgia in 2008 war.

[diaukhi]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

This country of Georgia (more accurately the Government) just gets on my nerves so much. The constant ass kissing of anything West and desire to look like a peaceful, "democratic" country in central Europe just makes me sick. They just have a typical identity complex, especially since we have made so much of their country and culture. If you really want to become sick, look at some of their tourism commercials or commercials for investments. They are more accurately an outpost of the American neo-cons and war hawks. Idiotic Government - can't stand it - hope they fall quickly.

what armenias did for us?

[Vrej1915]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Հայ պատգամավորներին թույլ չեն տվել ելույթ ունենալ Ջավախքում

http://news.am/arm/news/69135.html

Հուլիս 26, 2011 | 13:38
Հայաստանի ԱԺ «Ժառանգություն» խմբակցության պատգամավոր Արմեն Մարտիրոսյանին եւ ՀՅԴ խմբակցության անդամ Արծվիկ Մինասյանին վրացական իշխանություններն արգելել են ելույթ ունենալ հուլիսի 24-ին Ջավախքում կազմակերպված տերյանական օրերին նվիրված միջոցառման ժամանակ: Այս մասին այսօր` հուլիսի 26-ին, լրագրողների հետ հանդիպմանն ասացին իրենք` պատգամավորները:

Արծվիկ Մինասյանը պատմեց, որ երբ իրենք մոտեցել են շրջանային ղեկավարության՝ ազգությամբ հայ ներկայացուցիչներ Հենզել Մկոյանին, Վան Բայբուրթին, Վալոդյա Ստամբոլցյանին, որոնք միջոցառման կազմակերպիչներն են, ու պնդել, որ պետք է ելույթ ունենան, վերջիններս ասել են, թե Ջիվանիին նվիրված միջոցառման օրն էլ ելույթներ են եղել, եւ մարդիկ ձանձրացել են: Հետո ԱԺ պատգամավորները ելույթ ունենալու համաձայնություն են ձեռք բերել, բայց, նրանց խոսքով, «իշխանությունների ազգային անվտանգության հետ ունեցած կոնտակտի պատճառով զրկվել են ելույթ ունենալու հնարավորությունից»:

«Վրացական իշխանությունների համար հասկանալի էր, որ հայ պատգամավորները ամբիոնից հնչեցնելու էին ջավախահայերի իրավունքների պաշտպանությանն ուղղված խոսքեր, ինչի պատճառով էլ արգելել են նրանց ելույթները»,- ասաց Արծվիկ Մինասյանը: Այդ միջոցառմանը կարողացել է ելույթ ունենալ «Ժառանգության» վարչության անդամ Անահիտ Ուզունյանը, ում ելույթը կոպտորեն խոչընդոտել են` անջատելով բարձրախոսը: «Հայկական իշխանությունները մի կողմից ջավախքահայերին մղում են Հայաստան չգալուն` բարդացնելով հնարավոր բոլոր մեխանիզմները, թե սահմանային կետերում, թե մաքսային ձեւակերպումներում, հիմա էլ այդ ամենին գումարվել է կրավորական կեցվածքը հոգեւոր-մշակութային դաշտում տեղի ունեցող այսպիսի իրադարձություններին չդիմադրելու առումով»,- ասաց Արծվիկ Մինասյանը:

Արմեն Մարտիրոսյանը նշեց, որ հայապահպանության առումով Ջավախքում բարդ իրավիճակ է, առկա է մեր մշակութային, լեզվական ժառանգության, եկեղեցու պահպանության խնդիր` հավելելով, որ խիստ տարօրինակ է, որ ռուսատյացությամբ լեցուն Վրաստանում նախընտրել են հայկական միջոցառումն անցկացնել ռուսերենով, երբ Ջավախքում բոլորը հայ են: Նա բարձրաձայնեց նաեւ մեկ այլ խնդիր` թուրքական կապիտալի մուտքը Ջավախք, որը կլինի վրաց-թուրքական սահմանը բացելուց հետո:

[Serjik]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

I agree with you bro. next on our agenda needs to be Georgia. WE NEED FREE ACCESS TO THE BLACK SEA.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Georgians just have inferior complex, because Armenians have created much of their country and culture for them, and they were formed from Armenians, just a group that got separated and developed separate identity. So we can laugh at their anti-Armenian - it's like they are little, jealous children.

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

Georgia: Church-State Dispute in Tbilisi Exposes Anti-Armenian Undertones
July 15, 2011 - 1:28pm, by Molly Corso
Georgia EurasiaNet's Weekly Digest Religion

A dispute over efforts to strengthen the legal rights of minority religions has opened a new fault line in Georgia’s fractured political landscape. It is also helping to define the limits of the governing United National Movement’s influence.

Civil code amendments, passed on July 5, will allow “those faiths that are considered legal religions by member countries of the European Council” to register as full-fledged religious organizations. Previously, such groups were only able to register as charities or non-government organizations.

The changes, which have been praised by the international community, sparked outrage among Georgian Orthodox Church faithful, many of whom see them as an attempt to undermine the Church’s special role in society, a position facilitated by funding from the state budget and tax breaks. During an early July protest, hundreds of Georgian Orthodox believers and priests marched through downtown Tbilisi, carrying Georgian icons and flags, to the city’s main Sameba (Holy Trinity) Cathedral. The protest, one of the largest – and most colorful – in recent memory, offered a powerful reminder of the popular strength of the Georgian Orthodox Church.

At the core of Church supporters’ opposition is a concern that the law will make it possible for the Armenian Apostolic Church to contest the ownership of scores of churches. A wave of anti-Armenian sentiment has bubbled to the surface in TV talk shows, blogs and Facebook discussions on the amendments.

Much of the heated rhetoric started to subside on July 12 after a meeting of the Church’s Holy Synod, which called for calm. At the same time, the synod urged parliament in the future to discuss with the Patriarchate draft legislation related to religion so as “to avoid any possible complications.” President Mikheil Saakashvili attended a liturgy conducted by Patriarch Ilia II at Svetitskhoveli Cathedral the following day, providing a visual reminder that tension had eased.

The speed of the vote on the amendments – after just a few days of parliamentary debate – and the vote’s timing --- on the heels of a publicized trip to Tbilisi by the head of the Armenian Apostolic Church, Catholicos Garegin II – helped fuel tension, noted Giorgi Khutsishvili, director of the International Center on Conflict and Negotiation.

The lack of extensive preliminary discussions with Patriarch Ilia II -- a man generally seen as the most revered public figure in Georgia – created an appearance that the governing party was “arrogant,” Khutsishvili said. The 78-year-old patriarch had requested that the final vote be delayed until a full discussion with the Church could be held.

“I think that lots of things in Georgia are politicized which are not really political. And sometimes some actions of the government contribute to politicizing the issues,” Khutsishvili said.

United National Movement MP Davit Darchiashvili, who supported the amendments, told EurasiaNet.org that the changes had been under discussion for “a long time.” [Editor’s note: Darchiashvili formerly served as executive director of the Open Society Assistance Foundation – Georgia, part of the Soros Foundations network. EurasiaNet.org operates under the auspices of the Open Society Institute, a separate part of the Soros network].

“If taken from July, one may ask why [the law was passed] so quickly, but sometimes too long discussions can be -- sometimes --counterproductive,” he said. “It could have just caused additional sparks of emotion … and in the end the issue would have been undecided again. If we believe it needs to be done, let’s just do it.”

Darchiashvili dismissed allegations that the government felt pressured by Catholicos Garegin II’s visit. “Several religious denominations felt [their old status as non-governmental organizations] as discrimination,” he said. “If that is how they perceived it, why shouldn’t we address that concern?”

The Georgian Orthodox Church, though, functions as more than just a religious institution; its privileged position and growing popularity has made it a “political actor,” said Marine Chitashvili, the director of Tbilisi State University’s Center for Social Sciences. “[Patriarch Ilia II] is still an authority. … He has no authority de jure, but, de facto, he has a huge authority,” Chitashvili said.

Chitashvili described the resurgence of nationalism amid the debate over the status of minority religions as “artificial,” a phenomenon brought on by people’s shock that the decision was made so quickly, and not based on any real animosity between Georgians and Armenians. Even so, efforts by the Armenian minority in Georgia to broaden their cultural rights have rankled officials in Tbilisi. The Georgian and Armenian governments also went through a bout of tension in 2009, when two Georgian-Armenian community activists faced espionage allegations.

The two countries have the world’s oldest (Armenia) and third oldest (Georgia) organized churches, and signs of a cultural rivalry are evident.

Khutsishvili said the controversy over the amendments serves as a reminder that the separation between religion and politics in Georgia is not wide. “[I]t showed once again that religion is the most sensitive issue in Georgia,” he said. “It is also somehow a risk that in the future any dispute on a religious issue may easily grow into a political one.”

Editor's note: Molly Corso is a freelance reporter based in Tbilisi.

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/63889

[edojan]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

The georgian patriarch looks totally out of it. I think he is senile.

Its highly embarrassing video for Armenians ... and Georgians. Releasing it is a crime so is recording it. Makes armenians look aggressive and uneducated but this is unofficial meeting behind closed doors ... still when released has negative impact image of the church.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations

The georgian patriarch looks totally out of it. I think he is senile.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian Georgian Relations